Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:21:52 GMT, "O:P\)" wrote:

3.time. I have my own enterprise and my time is kind of limited (the money
too), but I know I can make time for a boat, here and there couple of days.
So this is something else to consider for me. If I'm going to buy a boat, I
prefer to tide 15 thousand as opposed to 50 thousand on a boat that I'll use
5-6 times a year.

You don't want your own boat for that little use. Join a sailing club
to learn and use club boats.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Smoking in a bar is like peeing in a punchbowl.

What about chewing in a bar?

In article rs.com, O:P\)
says...

As for sailing/boating schools, any suggestions?

Others have responded intelligently and in more detail than I have to offer for
your other questions.

I would strongly URGE you to take a course or two, and perhaps join a club for a
year to see what you like.

In Toronto, there are many clubs and groups that offer either or both power or
sail lessons.

http://www.sailing.humberc.on.ca/
My personal favorite, I have both taken courses from them, and then belonged to
their sail club for a couple of years. Best yet, courses taken are tax
deductable.

http://www.queensquayyachting.com/
These guys are downtown, in the inner harbour. More traffic to worry about, but
perhaps more convenient location.

sdg

[no experience]
... limited time...
... don't want to make mistakes...


Don't buy anything. Get some experience. Take courses at sailing clubs,
rent their boats; then offer yourself to slave and grind for a couple
racing boats. For power boats, join the Canadian version of the Coast
Guard Auxiliary - members with boats need members without boats to crew
and help to patrol and inspect and generally get out on the water.

Take the courses offered by the CG. Boating isn't brain surgery, but
then again, neither is driving, and look what happens there. Lots of
grief possible, for no good reason, so approach things with respect.

But really: If you've just got to impress the opposite sex right now,
forget the boat and take them on a white-water rafting trip. Cheaper,
safer, more exciting (on average), better food (unless you're a gourmet
cook). Or something like that.

Boat ownership is a great life, but a real costly hobby.

Rufus

Don't buy anything.

maybe, maybe not.

Get some experience.

yeah.

Take courses at sailing clubs,

nah. It is cheaper to buy an old small boat and go sailing. quicker learning
to boot.

then offer yourself to slave and grind for a couple
racing boats.

pick the back of the pack race boats. those who want to win don't want
beginners. Those who just want to be out there don't care.

Take the courses offered by the CG

nah. don't waste your money.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:21:52 GMT, "O:P\)" wrote:

What are you opinions? Please, I need as much info as you folks can provide
from you past experiences.

I sail out of Toronto and bought a 33' foot sailboat as my first boat.
It's five years later and I am saving for a somewhat bigger boat to go
world-cruising. So I would have to say I've embraced the concept with
both arms...

I don't want to make any more mistakes than what I have to when buying a
boat. Any good surveyors in Toronto area?

Plenty. At your level of experience, it would be foolhardy NOT to use
one. Check out GAM, Lake Ontario Sailor, www.boatforsale.org, and the
various local brokers online.

Should I look for a private deal
or I'm better of with a broker?

Very hard to say. I went private and got a very satisfactory
deal....AFTER the surveyor gave an intelligent look at the
deficiencies (many) of the boat (few were, however, insurmountable or
deal-breakers, and now, most are fixed and/or "better than factory").
Old boats are cheap for a reason, and your level of handiness and/or
williness to do your own repairs will determine whether you go for a
simple old boat or a more complex newer one. Fewer things will need
fixing on the newer boat, but will be more expensive when they
inevitably break. Or when you, in the first flush of sailing
experience, break them by mistake.


If I tell a broker that I want to spend
around 10 thousand, will he take me seriously? (his commission will be much
lower than if I'm looking to spend 250, right?)

Not as a percentage. Try online "buy and sells" or the "Buy and Sell"
magazines sold at convenience stores. 10 grand can still get you a
decent middle-aged 25 footer daysailer, or a couple of Sharks, or
whatever. It's up to you to determine the kind of sailing (racing,
cruising, dawdling at dock, or above of the above) which in turn will
help you narrow your choices. Boat club bulletin boards and web sites
have a lot of good private deals, too. It's morbid to say, but the
best deals are found when a careful old hobbyist keeps his
old-fashioned, dark and wood-filled old vessel in perfect running
order for 25 years, dies, and his boat-hating family low-balls it for
a quick sale. The man's boat, which is frequently his refuge, goes for
a song because it's not modern and sleek and it needs the sort of TLC
yards of fibreglass don't...until it gets past 10 years old, that is.

Eventually, I would like to take the boat to Florida (Miami area), how long
should I plan for a trip like that on a sail boat?

Not to be facetious, but as long as you need. If you bought your boat
in May, sailed in Lake Ontario in all weather all summer, learned in
the fall how to decommission and service your boat, took Power
Squadron safety, pilotage and nav courses in the winter and crewed on
a Christmas delivery from St. Pete's to the BVIs in February, you
would be as skilled as about half of the sailboaters in Miami, and
maybe would have more practical heavy weather knowledge.

As for sailing/boating schools, any suggestions?

Canadian Power Squadron and take an Intro Crew course at a yacht club
(many are quite cheap....$250 or so for lessons and a season's worth
of hitching rides on boats) and offer to crew for club racing all
summer, particularly on the range/size of boat (I'm guess
Quarter-Tonner or so) you think you are interested in.

Hope this helps. I took a somewhat head-first approach in that I went
from Intro Crew to Senior member in a yacht club in one season, and in
that I bought a mid-sized cruiser racer. But I found the bigger boat
easier to sail, roomy for my crew, and great in all but the nastiest
weather. Your mileage may vary.

R.

Wow - that's a little like saying I would like some place to live, should I
choose an apartment or a house or a condo or a cottage or a mobile home or
trailer, or cardboard box in a ditch, with or without covered parking, one
bedroom or six, maybe a fireplace, what type of heating, rural or urban...
you get my drift.

However, the important thing is that boating is the most important activity
in the world, so you're on the right track.

Licensing in Canada is federal, not provincial, so it's the same everywhere
in the country. (Actually, not quite the same - there are exceptions for
some northern regions). It depends i) how old you are vs. what power the
boat has and ii) how long it is. Those are two separate, unrelated
requirements - if either apply, you need a "card" - they're actually quite
careful _not_ to call it a licence. The regs are he
www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/obs-bsn/sbg-gsn/age_e.htm and
www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/obs-bsn/courses_e.htm.

I'm a proponent of the card whether you need it legally or not, but that's a
controversial issue. Check www.boatdocking.com/other/Licence.html.

Your general questions fit in well here or on rec.boats, and your
specifically Canadian ones could also go to can.rec.boating. Tell a little
more about yourself and about why boating interests you, for more specific
replies.

Charles

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com/BDPhoto.html - Photo Contest
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

"O:P)" wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...
I am playing with the idea of a boat. I'm new to boating. What would you
folks recommend, power or sail? Do I need extra skills for sail boats?
One
more question, do I need a license? and if yes, where do I get it? I'm in
Toronto.

O:P) wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...
I am playing with the idea of a boat. I'm new to boating. What would you
folks recommend, power or sail? Do I need extra skills for sail boats?
One
more question, do I need a license? and if yes, where do I get it? I'm in
Toronto.

Unless you feel the 'need for speed', I'd go sail. After all, half the fun
is getting there, not to mention the sound of the water against your
hull/wind in your rigging etc.
Newer 4 cycle outboards are getting a lot quieter and fresher smelling so
the difference isn't as drastic as on an older boat with a large 2 cycle
infernal engine.

As for courses, I'd recommend the Canadian Power & Sail Squadron. Take the
'boating Course' which is a good start and
will give you your operators card. (compulsory by 2009).
Next, I'd look for a keelboat course at a local yacht club/marina.
From what I've seen on the internet, Toronto is a good place to sail..with
lots of clubs and a good choice of 2nd hand boats.
Don't forget about the lakes north of you.
I have a trip planned up your way in May to shop for a 19' trailerable
mini-cruiser. If you see any good ones...let me know.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 05:56:07 GMT, "O:P\)" wrote:

I am playing with the idea of a boat. I'm new to boating. What would you
folks recommend, power or sail? Do I need extra skills for sail boats? One
more question, do I need a license? and if yes, where do I get it? I'm in
Toronto.

1. Check out the basic / intro course at a local Power Squadron.
Canadian Yachting Assoc also has certification & courses from intro
thru offshore passagemaking.
2. In Toronto, you require an "operator's permit" for any motorized
boat within the downtown area (basically from Bluffer's Park to Humber
River, within a couple miles of shore). Testing is on basic
rules-of-the-road and a short practical test (back off the dock, pick
up a life-jacket, c'mon back). Marine police check pretty regularly
within the inner harbour (if you've got a powerboat especially).
3. I think you also need a Coast Guard licence. At one time, if you
had the Toronto Port Authority "operator's permit" you could also get
the CG one without further testing; maybe even vice-versa.
4. If your boat has a VHF radio (pretty well a necessity) you need a
"base station" permit and an "operator's permit".

Some of the local yacht clubs provide basic intro sailing lessons --
either on a dinghy (geared towards racing) altho a few also have
keelboat lessons (my club, Ashbridge's Bay Yacht Club, for example).
Clubs also tend to have prep courses for licencing and sometimes even
administer the testing. ABYC is putting together a membership
category that includes timesharing a 25ft sailboat (a blatant plug )

I dunno of any lessons available on operating a powerboat.

Hope this helps,
g.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:10:14 -0500, Gerry Wolfe
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 05:56:07 GMT, "O:P\)" wrote:

I am playing with the idea of a boat. I'm new to boating. What would you
folks recommend, power or sail? Do I need extra skills for sail boats? One
more question, do I need a license? and if yes, where do I get it? I'm in
Toronto.

1. Check out the basic / intro course at a local Power Squadron.
Canadian Yachting Assoc also has certification & courses from intro
thru offshore passagemaking.
2. In Toronto, you require an "operator's permit" for any motorized
boat within the downtown area (basically from Bluffer's Park to Humber
River, within a couple miles of shore). Testing is on basic
rules-of-the-road and a short practical test (back off the dock, pick
up a life-jacket, c'mon back). Marine police check pretty regularly
within the inner harbour (if you've got a powerboat especially).
3. I think you also need a Coast Guard licence. At one time, if you
had the Toronto Port Authority "operator's permit" you could also get
the CG one without further testing; maybe even vice-versa.

Depending on vessel size and engine power, you may need a Pleasure
Craft Operator's Certificate (PCOC) - any everyone will need a PCOC by
2009, so you may as well get one now - it is included in the Power
Squadron Basic course.

4. If your boat has a VHF radio (pretty well a necessity) you need a
"base station" permit and an "operator's permit".

Dunno what a "base station" permit is - in Canada we no longer require
a station license as long as we remain in Canada or the US, but we do
require an operator's certificate (Restricted Radiotelephone
Operator's Certificate(Marine)) - this is now issued through CPS.


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

My own opinion FWIW .... You don't necessarily need "extra" skills for
sail, versus power, as much as you need "different" skills.
For many, the skills you need for sail, are less familiar on a daily
basis than the skills you need for power, so are more easily picked up
when handling a power boat.
Many will differ with this assessment, and that's OK. because in the end
you may realize that it's going to be up to you to decides as to which
is best for you.

otn