Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

This thread has spawned a coupla sub-threads; so I'm gonna just make a
few
general comments here. As always, this is my opinion from my
experiences, YMMV.

Centerboards:

Like most things in life, it's often the execution that's more
important
than the concept. Well designed and well built centerboards are a
great boon
for shallow-water sailing; but a bad centerboard is a nightmare. Well,
a
pain in the ass, at least.

Heavy weather sailing (bare poles, lying ahull, etc.):

What an imtimidatingly broad topic! There are a lotta full-length
books
about this and reducing it to a few paragraphs here will probably lead
to
acrimony because of misunderstandings; but I'll throw out a few
comments
from my personal perspective.

I've raced and cruised on a variety of boats in a variety of weather:
a
full-keel Alden 42 ketch, a "cutaway" keel Challenger 40 ketch, a
folkboat,
and several different fin-keel racer-cruiser sloops, from light air to
a_whole_lotta_wind. [Brief aside: It's been my experience (not to be
confused with objective reality) that really heavy weather experiences
can
be counted on the fingers; but light air happens all the time. My boat
must
be able to survive heavy weather; but I want one which can also sail
in
light air.]

So, I've never gone to bare poles. I think lying a-hull is a passe
tactic
which probably wasn't even "good" for heavy full-keel boats back when
that's
all there was. My opinion is that experience has shown us that
maintaining
speed and, more significantly, control is a better survival tactic.
But no
one has ever done a rigorous, "scientific," double-blind type
comparison
test. Typically all we have to go on are anecdotes; and boats have
survivied, and failed to survive, using every variety of tactic. So,
you're
still kinda left in a position where ya gotta choose your own poison.

I've come to my position after reading most of the works on this
topic,
talking to other sailors since the late 50s, and my own experiences.
My best
recommendation is that, rather than take anyone's advice here, go do
the
same yourself. Heavy weather in mid-ocean while cruising on a heavy
displacement boat is not the same as heavy weather in mid-ocean racing
a
go-fast design. I've done both and come to my conculsions to my own
satisfaction. I'd say you're generally better off following your own
heart,
rather than blindly going through someone else's heavy-weather
checklist.

Beating off a lee sho

Well, here's where you definitely want a fin keel sloop in preference
to a
full-keel ketch. There have been discussions here on Usenet about what
"weatherly" means. If a boat can point high, but makes terrible
leeway, is
it truly weatherly?

Pooping (including surfing, double-enders, and small cockpits):

Except for the fact that he really liked sailing the Ranger, from
reading
his other comments, I'd hafta say that Matt and I are from opposite
ends of
the spectrum. SC31, Tayana, Baba, etc. are boats which I consider
unseaworthy. IMO, modern double-enders and small cockpits are a style
decision, not a functional one. Well, I kinda take that back. If you
have a
typical double-ender, you actually do need a small cockpit because you
(probably) lack reserve buoyancy. And most of the double-enders
mentioned in
this thread are heavy displacement. That means that they resisist
surfing.
That means that they get pooped constantly. Not what I consider fun.
Or a
sensible design decision. But, Man!, they *look* nautical.

Conclusion:

In a sense, Usenet is like real life, maybe just a bit less polite. At
the
end of the day, you still just wind up with opinions. Allow me to
bring up
my favorite demons, the Pardeys. The have about a bazillion sea miles
and as
broad a range of experiences as you'd ever want. Pretty much every
decision
and every recommendation they make is the opposite of what I prefer.
Do I
defer to their superior experience? Absolutely not. I have enough
experience of my own to trust my judgment for me. Besides, I like
having refrigeration and a
radio; and, with my own engine, I don't hafta constantly ask others
for
tows.

YMMV but that's what works for me,

Frank

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

smallest boat I have been out in rough seas and 40+ winds was a 22 foot
Westerly, which was built tough enough to take on the North Sea. I have also
been on a Nimrod 54 (Hunter 54) and most certainly would NOT take thing to sea.

I personally know a guy who crossed the North Atlantic twice (once in November)
and then sailed to Nova Scotia (starting in a snow storm in December) on a
Bristol 27. I know for a fact you would NOT take a Nimrod offshore, even for
money.

yes, ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, a longer boat will have a more comfortable ride in
the rough stuff (and "steady 20 knot winds" as was claimed earlier in this
thread are NOT rough stuff) than a shorter boat. **HOWEVER** a good small boat
can be fine offshore while a price point, large coastal cruiser taken offshore
can make your wife a widow.

Horses for courses.

Also consider that a 45 footer taken offshore should have at least three _good_
crew onboard, and a 55 footer should have five _good_ crew onboard. While a 27
footer (worthy of offshore travel) needs only one good person onboard and maybe
one so-so crew.

The mainsail on a 55 footer weighs four or five or six times what the mainsail
on a 27 footer weighs (important when raising or lowering or repairing or
storing the mainsail) AND takes the same more effort to **trim in** one foot,
AND requires trimming in of maybe 2 or 3 feet for a total effort on the large
boat mainsail of roughly 10x total effort.

This is not the greatest of problems when the winds are under 10 knots, but do
come into play in 15 knot winds, are are hell to pay in 20 knots, and are
impossible by hand in the occasional 40+ knots of wind (meaning you are screwed
unless every last electric winch works and stays working)

I would not take a Nimrod 36 to sea.

==========================================

OK, I eagerly await your report on the Bristol 27 experience.

==========================================

Wayne, a Bristol 27 will be far more comfortable at sea than a Nimrod 36.

=============================================== ============

You may be right Jax because I have no experience wiith either. I'd
suggest you spend a week on each one beating to weather in the open
ocean and then give us a full report on your findings.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

Also typically, they would plan their route to be exclusively downwind

that is still true today for most cruisers.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:44:53 -0500, rhys wrote:

we have made some compromises in boat design and general skill
level that would have seemed questionable to the Don Streets and the
Pardeys still sailing among us.

============================

Of course the boat manufacturers are quite aware of the fact that less
than one percent of boat owners will actually go on an offshore
passage of any significance. It costs quite a bit more to build a
boat for that market and the vast majority of folks don't really need
it, and are not willing to pay for it. If you go to some of the
international cruising centers of the world where people have actually
made offshore passages just to get there, you will find very few boats
under 40 feet, and most are bigger.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

the point somebody made about survival suits is also very
important... keeping warm is key to being able to take an active role in
your own survival.

what good are survival suits 300 miles offshore?

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

I'm not sure that the type of boat matters

dougies, don't be foolish. *you* are advocating taking a Nimrod offshore with
your statement. yacht brokers, most of them, won't list a Nimrod they know has
been taken offshore, for the boat doesn't usually pass survey upon sale.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

Ask some of the transPac guys how the Westsail 32s
get back from Hawaii... or from Cabo...

about the same speed as most other boats making the trip. other than race
boats, most boats on passage will get "around" a hundred miles a day, give or
take some. The myth of 200 mile days as typical is just a myth.

What's more, the idea that the sea is so unsafe that one wants to spend as
little time away from shore as possible speaks only to the individual sailor
making the statement and mabye the guy trying to sell as big a boat to you as
he can help you get financed.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

what's wrong with complex mechanical aids?

it breaks. it is mechanical, so therefore it breaks.

btw, equipment ONLY breaks when you are using it.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

Frank Maier wrote:
... Tayana, Baba, etc. are boats which I consider
unseaworthy

Now them's fightn' words! I am admitadly biased here, but forgive me if
I and numerous others disagree with you. My boat may not have the
advantage of what has been learned in the last couple of decades, but to
describe her and her sisters as "unseaworthy" is beyond rational, it's
unkind and insulting to a lady whao shows her years more gracefully than
anyone has a right to.

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

Subject: Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
From: (JAXAshby)


the point somebody made about survival suits is also very
important... keeping warm is key to being able to take an active role in
your own survival.

what good are survival suits 300 miles offshore?


If you have to ask that question, you should continue to stay on the beach.

Shen

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

I also gotta jump into this as these Perry designs have IMHO sufficient
reserve stern buoyancy due to their quite large 'bustles' .... If you
compare to a Collin Archer type narrow stern hull then I might agree
but not a Perry design 'double ender'.
Nowithstanding that more Perry (full and long keel) design have had
probably the most circumnavigations than any other design house - has
to say something.

;-) TY37 #423

In article , Dan Best
wrote:

Frank Maier wrote:
... Tayana, Baba, etc. are boats which I consider
unseaworthy

Now them's fightn' words! I am admitadly biased here, but forgive me if
I and numerous others disagree with you. My boat may not have the
advantage of what has been learned in the last couple of decades, but to
describe her and her sisters as "unseaworthy" is beyond rational, it's
unkind and insulting to a lady whao shows her years more gracefully than
anyone has a right to.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

If you go to some of the
international cruising centers of the world where people have actually
made offshore passages just to get there, you will find very few boats
under 40 feet, and most are bigger.


not true. what IS true is that in expensive international cruising centers of
the world you WILL find more expensive boats. Generally, longer seaworthy
boats are more expensive than shorter seaworthy boats.

Go to the back waters away from large "cruising centers" and you will find lots
of smaller boats that have some great distances.

Keep in mind that *most* people on the water are scared to death of the water.
Therefore, they want bigger boats because they "heard" that bigger boats are
somehow "safer". Most people who cruiser want as many comforts of home as they
can find. Most women who consider going offshore with their man believe they
need to store a complete wardrobe of clothing and a couple dozen pairs of
shoes.

Yes, a quality 45 foot of excellent seaworthiness is perhaps a better sailing
boat than a same quality 27 foot boat of excellent seaworthiness, but you are
then talking about maybe 4 times the price.

Hold price constant and a smaller boat will give greater quality and greater
seaworthiness than the longer boat (remember, same dollars spent).

There is, however, the issue of crew. A seaworthy 45 footer needs more crew
onboard to safely sail long distances than a smaller seaworthy boat. I have
never seen a woman who could take down an 800 square foot mainsail by herself,
and damned few men who could either.

And few women, or men for that matter, who can raise a 65# anchor by hand when
the windlass breaks.

If safety is defined as space to knock around inside both at anchor and at sea,
then the larger boat is where it's at. If, on the other hand, safety is
defined as arriving at your destination with the crew you have available, then
the safest boat is the one you can handle under any foreseeable conditions.

As in airplanes where a good landing is one you can walk away from, in boats a
good landing is one you can take your dinghy to shore.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

Can you spell?

E
P
I
R
B


ANYone who thinks that way is a moral cretin.

You are going to endanger the life of a young coastie with wife and kids at
home just to rescue your scummy butt because you wanted to take your boat where
you were not qualified to take it.

kriste almighty. You should be forcefully sterilized, and your children as
well should you already have childred.

what a putz.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

okay, schlackoff. let's play your silly game.

do tell us what *you* would expect of a survival suit when three hundred miles
offshore your boat hit a tanker that kept on going because it didn't even know
you were there and you weren't watching?

now you are in the water, the EPIRB the moral reprobate said *he* would have
aboard in case his sail tore out sunk with the boat. 300 miles to the nearest
point of land and no one knows you are out there.

the point somebody made about survival suits is also very
important... keeping warm is key to being able to take an active role in
your own survival.

what good are survival suits 300 miles offshore?


If you have to ask that question, you should continue to stay on the beach.

Shen

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

This is from someone who called in a MayDay on a clear, light air day, on Long
Island Sound, because the engine was running a little hot. And then jaxie
complained because the coasties didn't come to the rescue!

Jaxie's exact quote:
"I was on a boat (in the middle of the Sound several miles from
either shore) with a disabled engine and neither the CG nor any towboat service
answered on 16 or 9."

Later he insisted they weren't disabled, just running hot. I'm guessing they
recognized his voice.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...

ANYone who thinks that way is a moral cretin.

You are going to endanger the life of a young coastie with wife and kids at
home just to rescue your scummy butt because you wanted to take your boat
where
you were not qualified to take it.

kriste almighty. You should be forcefully sterilized, and your children as
well should you already have childred.

what a putz.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

jeffies, the discussion you quoted had to do with the likelihood that the CG
would respond to a voice page.

Also, as I have explained to you before, *I* did not the declare an emergency,
the hired captain of the boat did along with the owner of the boat. It was the
third "emergency" in five days, a time period in which we made just 110 miles.
I left the boat when I was finally towed to shore, suddenly remembering a
"business meeting" I had to prepare for.

Again, I did not declare an emergency. I did try to raise the CG when the
hired captain and boat owner couldn't figure out how to use the handheld or
fixed mount radio.

btw, the engine *may* have been running hot, but I did not check. the hired
captain stated it as a fact and the owner accepted it as a fact. I mentioned I
did not see any steam and did not feel the extra warmth in the cabin an
overheated engine would normally bring, but the hired captain told me the
engine overheated.

btw-2: the CG contacted me later to ask if I had seen a copy of the hired
captain's Masters License. I said I had not and would not have asked to see
one and didn't care if he had one. the planned trip was short (300 miles), the
weather looked good, and I was familar with the waters. CG indicated the
reason they were asking is that the hired captain did not have, and never did
have, any Masters License, and it had been reported elsewhere that he had
produced such to boat owners.


This is from someone who called in a MayDay on a clear, light air day, on
Long
Island Sound, because the engine was running a little hot. And then jaxie
complained because the coasties didn't come to the rescue!

Jaxie's exact quote:
"I was on a boat (in the middle of the Sound several miles from
either shore) with a disabled engine and neither the CG nor any towboat
service
answered on 16 or 9."

Later he insisted they weren't disabled, just running hot. I'm guessing they
recognized his voice.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...

ANYone who thinks that way is a moral cretin.

You are going to endanger the life of a young coastie with wife and kids at
home just to rescue your scummy butt because you wanted to take your boat
where
you were not qualified to take it.

kriste almighty. You should be forcefully sterilized, and your children as
well should you already have childred.

what a putz.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

jaxie, you're always quick to claim that you "know someone" or "sailed with
someone" as if this really makes you look like a real sailor. But whenever you
tell your stories it becomes clear that the only rides you can get are with
total losers. Now you're claiming that the "professional" captain was a fraud
and a bozo. You claim to be the "engine expert" but you seem to be saying that
you called the Coast Guard rather than even look to see if the intake was
fouled.

On your great "Cape Hatteras Adventure" you had three GPS's and were about to
"turn back" because you couldn't find the Light and were afraid of hitting the
"rocks." But you never looked at a chart then, or after the fact to see where
you were.

Extra heat in the cabin??? I suppose it could happen, but in a proper setup by
the time you noticed the increase you would likely have done some damage, if
only to the hoses. Without a gauge, it more likely the first sign would be the
smell of paint burning off the engine.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, the discussion you quoted had to do with the likelihood that the CG
would respond to a voice page.

Also, as I have explained to you before, *I* did not the declare an emergency,
the hired captain of the boat did along with the owner of the boat. It was
the
third "emergency" in five days, a time period in which we made just 110 miles.
I left the boat when I was finally towed to shore, suddenly remembering a
"business meeting" I had to prepare for.

Again, I did not declare an emergency. I did try to raise the CG when the
hired captain and boat owner couldn't figure out how to use the handheld or
fixed mount radio.

btw, the engine *may* have been running hot, but I did not check. the hired
captain stated it as a fact and the owner accepted it as a fact. I mentioned
I
did not see any steam and did not feel the extra warmth in the cabin an
overheated engine would normally bring, but the hired captain told me the
engine overheated.

btw-2: the CG contacted me later to ask if I had seen a copy of the hired
captain's Masters License. I said I had not and would not have asked to see
one and didn't care if he had one. the planned trip was short (300 miles),
the
weather looked good, and I was familar with the waters. CG indicated the
reason they were asking is that the hired captain did not have, and never did
have, any Masters License, and it had been reported elsewhere that he had
produced such to boat owners.


This is from someone who called in a MayDay on a clear, light air day, on
Long
Island Sound, because the engine was running a little hot. And then jaxie
complained because the coasties didn't come to the rescue!

Jaxie's exact quote:
"I was on a boat (in the middle of the Sound several miles from
either shore) with a disabled engine and neither the CG nor any towboat
service
answered on 16 or 9."

Later he insisted they weren't disabled, just running hot. I'm guessing they
recognized his voice.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...

ANYone who thinks that way is a moral cretin.

You are going to endanger the life of a young coastie with wife and kids at
home just to rescue your scummy butt because you wanted to take your boat
where
you were not qualified to take it.

kriste almighty. You should be forcefully sterilized, and your children as
well should you already have childred.

what a putz.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

On 22 Mar 2004 19:48:15 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

The myth of 200 mile days as typical is just a myth.

===============================================

I have sailed more 200 mile days than I can remember but for the most
part they were on large, well equipped racing boats over 40 feet. All
you need is a day of good reaching conditions where you can average a
bit over 8 knots. Not that difficult on a good boat, you just need
the right conditions.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

jeffies, for the gazillionth time, *I* did not declare an emergency, the hired
captain did (long story, a story the CG investigated)

Now you're claiming that the "professional" captain was a fraud
and a bozo.

yup. and it is documented -- not by me -- by many others on another part of
the net.

You claim to be the "engine expert" but you seem to be saying that
you called the Coast Guard rather than even look to see if the intake was
fouled.

the hired captain insisted the engine overheated and the boat owner accepted
that statement. I had considered leaving the boat two days before when docked
to fix the first "emergency" and figured when we got to shore this time I would
indeed leave.

Extra heat in the cabin??? I suppose it could happen, but in a proper setup
by
the time you noticed the increase you would likely have done some damage, if
only to the hoses.

jeggies, you don't understand how much heat an overheated engine gives off how
quickly.

Without a gauge, it more likely the first sign would be the
smell of paint burning off the engine.

there was a guage visable to the hired captain.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

But you never looked at a chart then, or after the fact to see where
you were.

we had up to date charts. the merchant marine with decades of experience, a
professional mariner who also had decades of offshore racing experience, didn't
wish to risk his boat by accepting as gospel that the charts were totally
accurate. I think that was prudent judgement on his part, and if I were the
boat owner instead of him I would have done the same thing. The lights were
where the obstructions were. The lights may or maybe not be accurately placed
on the charts.

it is easy to understand, jeggies. I don't know why you are having a problem
with it.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

forgetting races boats here as the discussion was concerning blue water cruise
boats, few people achieve 200 mile days often on cruising boats.

Usually, people remember such days almost as well as they remember the times
the slept with and unusually beautiful woman within hours of meeting her.

All
you need is a day of good reaching conditions

it is like the story, "If I had some ham, I could have ham and eggs, if I had
some eggs". A "day of good reaching conditions" is not ordered via internet
from Wal-Mart.

Not that difficult on a good boat, you just need
the right conditions.

in "right conditions" a litewait boat can make lots of miles, many more miles
than a boat built to take a hit from heavy seas. However, that very same
litewait speedster will become a misserable machine jerking every which way in
even mildly confused seas, let alone seriously rought conditions.

If the idea is to race across bodies of water as quickly as can be -- and
willing to take whatever discomfort when seas are not benign -- the speedster
will get you there. HOWEVER, that litewait speedster REQUIRES good crew and
lots of crew. *that* is not a safe practise for the short-handed boat.

A bunch of well-trained, well-conditioned athletes on a highly-tuneable race
boat is not the same boat as a couple in their 50's who maybe never were all
that athletic.

pulling down an 800 square foot mainsail in F5 and building is something
different to high end racers, work hardened by years of effort --something
totally different, and unsafe -- to the couple with the gray hair and decades
behind a desk.

horses for courses.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

So I was right! You DID call the Coast Guard without even looking at the
intake! What a PUTZ!!! You can keep telling your story about how it was the
other guy that "declared an emergency" but everyone else in this group would
have said, "wait a minute, I'll check the intake." But you had to show off that
you could call in a MayDay! I bet you've been practicing since you were 8
years old!



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, for the gazillionth time, *I* did not declare an emergency, the hired
captain did (long story, a story the CG investigated)

Now you're claiming that the "professional" captain was a fraud
and a bozo.

yup. and it is documented -- not by me -- by many others on another part of
the net.

You claim to be the "engine expert" but you seem to be saying that
you called the Coast Guard rather than even look to see if the intake was
fouled.

the hired captain insisted the engine overheated and the boat owner accepted
that statement. I had considered leaving the boat two days before when docked
to fix the first "emergency" and figured when we got to shore this time I
would
indeed leave.

Extra heat in the cabin??? I suppose it could happen, but in a proper setup
by
the time you noticed the increase you would likely have done some damage, if
only to the hoses.

jeggies, you don't understand how much heat an overheated engine gives off how
quickly.

Without a gauge, it more likely the first sign would be the
smell of paint burning off the engine.

there was a guage visable to the hired captain.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

jeggies, you fricken idiot. AGAIN I'll tell you. the hired the captain
declared the emergency, and the owner concurred. The hired captain tried to
call the coast guard and was unable to do much other than key the mike. the
owner tried as well, and he too had no idea if he even had the things (one
handheld and one fixed mount radio) turned on. After more than 10 minutes of
watching this (engine shut down, sails flapping unattended) I picked up the
mike and made sure the radios were transmitting (talk on one radio, listen on
the other).

now, which word didn't you understand the first three dozen times you asked the
question?

So I was right! You DID call the Coast Guard without even looking at the
intake!

btw, jeggies, I did then and do now believe the engine was not overheating, and
the hired captain just wanted to abort the trip because he was getting on
another boat (much larger) shortly where he had women crew coming aboard.

This next boat was the undoing of the hired captain's fraud. The internet lit
up with complaints from the women about his groping behavior, followed shortly
by tales of the boat seriously damaged by bad handling, followed shortly by
tales of the hired captain being fired with fireworks, followed shortly by
tales of forged Masters License.

I have not said much about the hired captain in the past and will not go into
details here. Let's just say that when the third "emergency" was declared I
saw it as an opportunity to leave the boat.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

Jaxie, the light at Diamond Shoal is 7 miles from a hazard. Seven Friggin
Miles! And its a "18 mile" light. And you had 3 GPS's. And you can safely
navigate the area with a depth sounder alone. If you were within "20 seconds of
turning back" you were LOST!

I've been within a few minutes of turning back, but it was in thick fog without
instruments, close to serious hazards. It would NOT be 20 miles offshore, with
3 GPS's! The only way there could have been any doubt at all is if there was no
one on board who could be trusted to use a GPS or to read a chart. Given the
talent you've displayed here, that's not too far fetched.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
But you never looked at a chart then, or after the fact to see where
you were.

we had up to date charts. the merchant marine with decades of experience, a
professional mariner who also had decades of offshore racing experience,
didn't
wish to risk his boat by accepting as gospel that the charts were totally
accurate. I think that was prudent judgement on his part, and if I were the
boat owner instead of him I would have done the same thing. The lights were
where the obstructions were. The lights may or maybe not be accurately placed
on the charts.

it is easy to understand, jeggies. I don't know why you are having a problem
with it.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

So you sat for ten minutes watching without doing anything! You didn't check
the intake? You didn't trim the sails? You are a complete WASTE! Jaxie, you
better quit, you're making this worse with every telling!




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeggies, you fricken idiot. AGAIN I'll tell you. the hired the captain
declared the emergency, and the owner concurred. The hired captain tried to
call the coast guard and was unable to do much other than key the mike. the
owner tried as well, and he too had no idea if he even had the things (one
handheld and one fixed mount radio) turned on. After more than 10 minutes of
watching this (engine shut down, sails flapping unattended) I picked up the
mike and made sure the radios were transmitting (talk on one radio, listen on
the other).

now, which word didn't you understand the first three dozen times you asked
the
question?

So I was right! You DID call the Coast Guard without even looking at the
intake!

btw, jeggies, I did then and do now believe the engine was not overheating,
and
the hired captain just wanted to abort the trip because he was getting on
another boat (much larger) shortly where he had women crew coming aboard.

This next boat was the undoing of the hired captain's fraud. The internet lit
up with complaints from the women about his groping behavior, followed shortly
by tales of the boat seriously damaged by bad handling, followed shortly by
tales of the hired captain being fired with fireworks, followed shortly by
tales of forged Masters License.

I have not said much about the hired captain in the past and will not go into
details here. Let's just say that when the third "emergency" was declared I
saw it as an opportunity to leave the boat.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

If you were within "20 seconds of
turning back" you were LOST!

30 seconds for me, before I spotted the light. the ower saw the light about 10
seconds after I did.

If I were lost, so was the owner of the boat, a merchant marine of decades
experience and decades of offshore racing experience as well. Good company it
seems.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

You didn't trim the sails?

actually, later while we waited several hours for the towboat to show up I did
in fact adjust the sails so that we were sailing (about 1/4 knot, maaaaybe 1/2
knot) towards the port the towboat was coming from. the hired captain adjusted
the sails so that we were heading away from port. I readjusted the sails and
was again making weigh towards port (we had the barest hint of winds, not even
enough to cause ripples on the water). This time the hired captain took the
sails down, wrapped sails around them and put on the sail cover on the main,
all -- he said -- to keep the sails from tearing. I then sat and waited for
what turned out to be a total of five (or six? or more?) hours for the towboat
to arrive.

Jaxie, you
better quit, you're making this worse with every telling!

jeggies, it was not my boat, and I was not the hired captain. what do expect I
should have done? hit the hired captain over the head with a winch handle?

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

Subject: Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
From: (JAXAshby)

okay, schlackoff. let's play your silly game.

Okay, jaxass, let's play your silly game.


do tell us what *you* would expect of a survival suit when three hundred
miles
offshore your boat hit a tanker that kept on going because it didn't even
know
you were there and you weren't watching?

now you are in the water, the EPIRB the moral reprobate said *he* would have
aboard in case his sail tore out sunk with the boat. 300 miles to the
nearest
point of land and no one knows you are out there.

You can only (typically) think of one scenario. If it was you, I'd highly
recommend not donning the suit and dying quickly, since you seem to possess
little reason for existing.
For the rest of us, the suit can extend our chances of survival a great deal
.... naturally, it could also drag out the inevitable.
Course, you've never been and never will be that far offshore, and never had to
go through any situation similiar to that, so, you wouldn't understand the
possibilities.

Shen

PS You sure your not past due to return to the "funny farm"? Your post get more
stupid every day.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

You keep saying this over, and over, but the truth is, you were lost. Its
pretty clear that your captain had no faith in his own ability, or yours. The
only other explanation is that you had absolutely no idea what was going on.
Actually, I'd say both were true.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...

If I were lost, so was the owner of the boat, a merchant marine of decades
experience and decades of offshore racing experience as well. Good company it
seems.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

You drifted for 6 hours without checking the intake??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
You didn't trim the sails?

actually, later while we waited several hours for the towboat to show up I did
in fact adjust the sails so that we were sailing (about 1/4 knot, maaaaybe 1/2
knot) towards the port the towboat was coming from. the hired captain
adjusted
the sails so that we were heading away from port. I readjusted the sails and
was again making weigh towards port (we had the barest hint of winds, not even
enough to cause ripples on the water). This time the hired captain took the
sails down, wrapped sails around them and put on the sail cover on the main,
all -- he said -- to keep the sails from tearing. I then sat and waited for
what turned out to be a total of five (or six? or more?) hours for the towboat
to arrive.

Jaxie, you
better quit, you're making this worse with every telling!

jeggies, it was not my boat, and I was not the hired captain. what do expect
I
should have done? hit the hired captain over the head with a winch handle?

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

jeggies, why check the intake? For what purpose?

You drifted for 6 hours without checking the intake???
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

From: shen44

the lucid part of shlackoffs response is:

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

yup, me AND the career merchant marine, both lost. Or more accurately, neither
he nor I completely trusted the charts to be completely accurate. That's the
same as being lost, I guess.

You keep saying this over, and over, but the truth is, you were lost. Its
pretty clear that your captain had no faith in his own ability, or yours.
The
only other explanation is that you had absolutely no idea what was going on.
Actually, I'd say both were true.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...

If I were lost, so was the owner of the boat, a merchant marine of decades
experience and decades of offshore racing experience as well. Good company
it
seems.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

jeggies? don't you get embarrassed?

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

You drifted for 6 hours???

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeggies, why check the intake? For what purpose?

You drifted for 6 hours without checking the intake???
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

I used to think you were an embarrassment to all sailors, but I got over it.


You drifted for 6 hours???

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeggies? don't you get embarrassed?

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

You drifted for 6 hours???

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
yup, me AND the career merchant marine, both lost. Or more accurately,
neither
he nor I completely trusted the charts to be completely accurate. That's the
same as being lost, I guess.

You keep saying this over, and over, but the truth is, you were lost. Its
pretty clear that your captain had no faith in his own ability, or yours.
The
only other explanation is that you had absolutely no idea what was going on.
Actually, I'd say both were true.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...

If I were lost, so was the owner of the boat, a merchant marine of decades
experience and decades of offshore racing experience as well. Good company
it
seems.

Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
 

You drifted for 6 hours???


no, actually, I didn't. The boat, along with the hired captain and the boat's
owner, drifted for six some hours. I watched the clouds, watched the barges on
the other side of the sound go one way or the other. I thought about the
"sudden business meeting I had to prepare for" and thus the reason I was going
to leave the boat when we got to shore. I thought about how we had made just
110 miles in five days on a 300 mile trip. I thought about a silicone chickie
I see whenever she gets lonely. I thought about the guys on the next boat
delivery the hired captain was doing -- the guys he said he was going to toss
off the boat short of the stated destination, I thought about the unknown to
me girls the hired captain was going to toss off that next boats -- girls who
"didn't get with the program". I thought about how the hired captain didn't
know there would be currents in the East River. I thought about maybe the
whole situation might be turned into a novel.

I didn't drift for six hours. The boat drifted for six hours and I was just
along for the ride.