I like to tell people I'm spoiled, my last few boats have been pretty
close to perfect. Right now we have two, both are relatively shoal
draft. The "big boat" is a 36' trawler that draws about 3' 6" (1.1m)
and the other is a sailboat with a ballasted daggerboard that draws
10" to 5'.

We sail & cruise mostly the south-east coast of the US, including the
NC river & sounds, often visit the Chesapeake. I know a lot of people
with much deeper draft boats that say, "We can go anywhere we want to"
but of course the key is that they don't want to go a lot of the same
places we do... that's good, cuts down on the crowding!

One of the biggest (and often overlooked) benefit of shoal draft for a
cruiser is the wide range in choice of anchorage. A shallower boat can
get closer in to good shelter, can choose different holding ground,
can swing very securely in a much smaller circle on much shorter
tackle.

Another benefit of shoal draft for small/medium sailboats is that they
can sit on trailers, avoiding slip fees, more secure in hurricanes,
and can reach new cruising grounds dead to windward at 50 knots.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

wrote in message
...
I like to tell people I'm spoiled, my last few boats have been pretty
close to perfect. Right now we have two, both are relatively shoal
draft. The "big boat" is a 36' trawler that draws about 3' 6" (1.1m)
and the other is a sailboat with a ballasted daggerboard that draws
10" to 5'.

We sail & cruise mostly the south-east coast of the US, including the
NC river & sounds, often visit the Chesapeake. I know a lot of people
with much deeper draft boats that say, "We can go anywhere we want to"
but of course the key is that they don't want to go a lot of the same
places we do... that's good, cuts down on the crowding!

One of the biggest (and often overlooked) benefit of shoal draft for a
cruiser is the wide range in choice of anchorage. A shallower boat can
get closer in to good shelter, can choose different holding ground,
can swing very securely in a much smaller circle on much shorter
tackle.

Another benefit of shoal draft for small/medium sailboats is that they
can sit on trailers, avoiding slip fees, more secure in hurricanes,
and can reach new cruising grounds dead to windward at 50 knots.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


I think the only real advantage to the full keel is offshore. Other than
that, I don't see any advantage. There must be something else... just can't
think of it after being tuckered out from sailing all afternoon on a small
swing keel.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Sat, 12 Apr 08, dougking wrote:
a sailboat with a ballasted daggerboard that draws
10" to 5'.

I especially like the fact that you don't have to jump overboard and
push when you run hard aground lol!
A swing keel can be a nice Depth Alarm when halfway down.
What kind of sailboat do you have?

Rick ---- former Catalina 22 owner, among various other swing keels

a sailboat with a ballasted daggerboard that draws
10" to 5'.


wrote:
I especially like the fact that you don't have to jump overboard and
push when you run hard aground lol!
A swing keel can be a nice Depth Alarm when halfway down.
What kind of sailboat do you have?

Rick ---- former Catalina 22 owner, among various other swing keels

It's a Santana 23 with a 250# ballasted daggerboard. There is another
850# of lead in a slab along the bottom of the hull, where it is far
less effective as ballast. If I ever get the rest of the boat projects
done, I am thinking about building a new daggerboard with about a 600#
bulb that would increase righting moment and reduce dead weight.

Where we sail, there are lots of shoals & sandbars and being able to
just haul on the lifting tackle to get off is a great convenience.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

PhantMan wrote:
I especially like the fact that you don't have to jump overboard and
push when you run hard aground lol!
A swing keel can be a nice Depth Alarm when halfway down.

dougking wrote:
It's a Santana 23 with a 250# ballasted daggerboard. There is another
850# of lead in a slab along the bottom of the hull, where it is far
less effective as ballast. If I ever get the rest of the boat projects
done, I am thinking about building a new daggerboard with about a 600#
bulb that would increase righting moment and reduce dead weight.

The 23 seemed like a great design to me. I wish they'd built more of
them. They're perfect for my area but I seldom see one around here.
I'm no architect but your modification idea makes a lot of sense to
me.

Where we sail, there are lots of shoals & sandbars and being able to
just haul on the lifting tackle to get off is a great convenience.

Shoals and sandbars here too. Thats what I meant by my comment up top.
Running aground is never a worry even on a falling tide.
It's hard to even find pictures on the Web of a Santana 23 though. I
found yours but that was about it.

Rick

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 08:38:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

a sailboat with a ballasted daggerboard that draws
10" to 5'.


wrote:
I especially like the fact that you don't have to jump overboard and
push when you run hard aground lol!
A swing keel can be a nice Depth Alarm when halfway down.
What kind of sailboat do you have?

Rick ---- former Catalina 22 owner, among various other swing keels

It's a Santana 23 with a 250# ballasted daggerboard. There is another
850# of lead in a slab along the bottom of the hull, where it is far
less effective as ballast. If I ever get the rest of the boat projects
done, I am thinking about building a new daggerboard with about a 600#
bulb that would increase righting moment and reduce dead weight.

Mine (22ft.) is 400 lbs cast iron with a 400 lbs lead bulb. Don't make
the same mistake a friend of mine made when he made his dagger board
lighter but with a lower CG. It is the CG of the boat (+keel) that
matters for righting not the moment of the keel about the waterline!


Where we sail, there are lots of shoals & sandbars and being able to
just haul on the lifting tackle to get off is a great convenience.

Good for parking.. just go somewhere shallow and drop the keel on the
bottom.


Fresh Breezes- Doug King

wrote:
I like to tell people I'm spoiled, my last few boats have been pretty
close to perfect. Right now we have two, both are relatively shoal
draft. The "big boat" is a 36' trawler that draws about 3' 6" (1.1m)
and the other is a sailboat with a ballasted daggerboard that draws
10" to 5'.


I agree. When I sailed in the North Pacific, the draft of my full keel
boat didn't matter as the shore seemed to drop right off wherever I was.

However, my next boat was in the Atlantic and drew 6' (mod fin keel). I
spent time in the Intercoastal and tried getting to certain places close
inshore. Time after time I was frustrated at how often interesting
places were closed to me.

That got much worse when I got to FL / Caribbean. I never even tried the
Keys or the west coast of FL either which I suppose would be just that
much more annoying.

While I"m at it, the mast height was almost 65' w/o antenna. Several
times I went under Intercoastal bridges hearing that ping ping ping of
the antenna hitting something on a bridge. That was a truly nauseating
feeling knowing the cost if I was a few feet wrong in my estimate of
where the tide was. I was several times delayed waiting the tide in
certain areas both for draft and total height.

BTW, my initial plan to FL was to go from Newport, RI to Bermuda and
then to FL but constant storms, a new for me boat and my being alone
dissuaded me from that idea. So I hit the coast. I wanted to go inshore
for some of the trip to see the sights. Great trip but also worrisome in
a lot of ways.

-paul

"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
. ..
I agree. When I sailed in the North Pacific, the draft of my full keel
boat didn't matter as the shore seemed to drop right off wherever I was.

However, my next boat was in the Atlantic and drew 6' (mod fin keel). I
spent time in the Intercoastal and tried getting to certain places close
inshore. Time after time I was frustrated at how often interesting places
were closed to me.

That got much worse when I got to FL / Caribbean. I never even tried the
Keys or the west coast of FL either which I suppose would be just that
much more annoying.

I think you are right. My boat was in Florida when I bought it and I do not
think it had been much used there since it was brought down from the Great
Lakes area, because it draws 7' and they even ran it aground going to the
shipyard to haul it out for me.
Now in Norway the problem is more often finding somewhere shallow enough to
drop anchor.
People in many places here can moor a 40' deep keel yacht to a small
pontoon at the bottom of their gardens and just step aboard.

"Paul Cassel" wrote
.... Time after time I was frustrated at how often interesting places
were closed to me.


I don't know who to attribute this to, but here's one of my favorite
quotes: "Shoal draft allows one to run aground in much more
interesting places."


That got much worse when I got to FL / Caribbean. I never even tried the
Keys or the west coast of FL either which I suppose would be just that
much more annoying.


The funny thing is that many people just assume these areas are closed
to cruising, whereas in fact many old time cruisers & even the early
mass-rpoduced racer-cruisers (modelled after the hot CCA-rule ocean
racers of the day) where shallow draft vessels.


"Edgar" wrote:
I think you are right. My boat was in Florida when I bought it and I do not
think it had been much used there since it was brought down from the Great
Lakes area, because it draws 7' and they even ran it aground going to the
shipyard to haul it out for me.
Now in Norway the problem is more often finding somewhere shallow enough to
drop anchor.
People in many places here can moor a 40' deep keel yacht to a small
pontoon at the bottom of their gardens and just step aboard.

I understand that a lot of cruiser up your way carry pitons so they
can tie up overnight, rather than anchor.

The Great Lakes are deep but have a lot of shallow spots, and lately
water levels have been dropping & many channels are restricted. There,
and places like the Pacific North-West, the water is deep and shores
mostly cliff; however I have cruised some in both areas and have come
to believe that there are always a few coves & creeks around that
would be nice to explore *if* your vessel can get in there.

Just to be fair, I'd like to mention the benefits of an old fashioned
deep full keel.
1- strength, the keel member can be an enormous girder that gives the
hull near-infinite rigidity. Impervious to grounding damage and can be
set up on a sloping shore at high tide for hull scraping or other
maintenance.
2- seakindliness, a full keel with a long ballast casting distributes
the weight such that the boat will have a nice slow pitch (although it
will pitch more & thru more oscillations, all else being equal). And
of course having the ballast weight down low gives stability & sail-
carrying power like nothing else can.

My ideal is the lifting keels with ballast bulb, even with ballast
ratios of 30% they can generate the same righting moment as fin keels
with BR~50% and go to windward like Roger's boat with engine
running

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

wrote:
"Paul Cassel" wrote
.... Time after time I was frustrated at how often interesting places
were closed to me.

I don't know who to attribute this to, but here's one of my favorite
quotes: "Shoal draft allows one to run aground in much more
interesting places."


I said it. Let me give you an example. Along the inside, there are these
little breaks in the marshes which lead to a sort of lagoon. The
entrance, I was told, tended to be shallower than the lagoon. I often
was maybe 30-50 cm too deep to get into the lagoon where I'd have been ok.

Also while the clearance in the Intercoastal is supposed to be 6', it
isn't. There were sections where I had to await high tide to pass over
and other sections where I needed to await low tide to pass under.

Specifically, while the clearance for the Dismal Swamp route is 6',
sunken logs, etc. made that route impassible to me and I'd wanted to see
it.

Over in the Bahamas, it's not guessing. There are many good places to
anchor which are marked as being less than the 6' I needed. Over in the
Pacific, as Edgar posted about the Baltic, the issue is more finding a
place where you have enough rode to anchor. Several times I anchored
with a rode maybe 1.5x the depth but so much was out, that it sufficed.

-paul