wrote:
I like to tell people I'm spoiled, my last few boats have been pretty
close to perfect. Right now we have two, both are relatively shoal
draft. The "big boat" is a 36' trawler that draws about 3' 6" (1.1m)
and the other is a sailboat with a ballasted daggerboard that draws
10" to 5'.


I agree. When I sailed in the North Pacific, the draft of my full keel
boat didn't matter as the shore seemed to drop right off wherever I was.

However, my next boat was in the Atlantic and drew 6' (mod fin keel). I
spent time in the Intercoastal and tried getting to certain places close
inshore. Time after time I was frustrated at how often interesting
places were closed to me.

That got much worse when I got to FL / Caribbean. I never even tried the
Keys or the west coast of FL either which I suppose would be just that
much more annoying.

While I"m at it, the mast height was almost 65' w/o antenna. Several
times I went under Intercoastal bridges hearing that ping ping ping of
the antenna hitting something on a bridge. That was a truly nauseating
feeling knowing the cost if I was a few feet wrong in my estimate of
where the tide was. I was several times delayed waiting the tide in
certain areas both for draft and total height.

BTW, my initial plan to FL was to go from Newport, RI to Bermuda and
then to FL but constant storms, a new for me boat and my being alone
dissuaded me from that idea. So I hit the coast. I wanted to go inshore
for some of the trip to see the sights. Great trip but also worrisome in
a lot of ways.

-paul

"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
. ..
I agree. When I sailed in the North Pacific, the draft of my full keel
boat didn't matter as the shore seemed to drop right off wherever I was.

However, my next boat was in the Atlantic and drew 6' (mod fin keel). I
spent time in the Intercoastal and tried getting to certain places close
inshore. Time after time I was frustrated at how often interesting places
were closed to me.

That got much worse when I got to FL / Caribbean. I never even tried the
Keys or the west coast of FL either which I suppose would be just that
much more annoying.

I think you are right. My boat was in Florida when I bought it and I do not
think it had been much used there since it was brought down from the Great
Lakes area, because it draws 7' and they even ran it aground going to the
shipyard to haul it out for me.
Now in Norway the problem is more often finding somewhere shallow enough to
drop anchor.
People in many places here can moor a 40' deep keel yacht to a small
pontoon at the bottom of their gardens and just step aboard.

"Paul Cassel" wrote
.... Time after time I was frustrated at how often interesting places
were closed to me.


I don't know who to attribute this to, but here's one of my favorite
quotes: "Shoal draft allows one to run aground in much more
interesting places."


That got much worse when I got to FL / Caribbean. I never even tried the
Keys or the west coast of FL either which I suppose would be just that
much more annoying.


The funny thing is that many people just assume these areas are closed
to cruising, whereas in fact many old time cruisers & even the early
mass-rpoduced racer-cruisers (modelled after the hot CCA-rule ocean
racers of the day) where shallow draft vessels.


"Edgar" wrote:
I think you are right. My boat was in Florida when I bought it and I do not
think it had been much used there since it was brought down from the Great
Lakes area, because it draws 7' and they even ran it aground going to the
shipyard to haul it out for me.
Now in Norway the problem is more often finding somewhere shallow enough to
drop anchor.
People in many places here can moor a 40' deep keel yacht to a small
pontoon at the bottom of their gardens and just step aboard.

I understand that a lot of cruiser up your way carry pitons so they
can tie up overnight, rather than anchor.

The Great Lakes are deep but have a lot of shallow spots, and lately
water levels have been dropping & many channels are restricted. There,
and places like the Pacific North-West, the water is deep and shores
mostly cliff; however I have cruised some in both areas and have come
to believe that there are always a few coves & creeks around that
would be nice to explore *if* your vessel can get in there.

Just to be fair, I'd like to mention the benefits of an old fashioned
deep full keel.
1- strength, the keel member can be an enormous girder that gives the
hull near-infinite rigidity. Impervious to grounding damage and can be
set up on a sloping shore at high tide for hull scraping or other
maintenance.
2- seakindliness, a full keel with a long ballast casting distributes
the weight such that the boat will have a nice slow pitch (although it
will pitch more & thru more oscillations, all else being equal). And
of course having the ballast weight down low gives stability & sail-
carrying power like nothing else can.

My ideal is the lifting keels with ballast bulb, even with ballast
ratios of 30% they can generate the same righting moment as fin keels
with BR~50% and go to windward like Roger's boat with engine
running

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

wrote:
"Paul Cassel" wrote
.... Time after time I was frustrated at how often interesting places
were closed to me.

I don't know who to attribute this to, but here's one of my favorite
quotes: "Shoal draft allows one to run aground in much more
interesting places."


I said it. Let me give you an example. Along the inside, there are these
little breaks in the marshes which lead to a sort of lagoon. The
entrance, I was told, tended to be shallower than the lagoon. I often
was maybe 30-50 cm too deep to get into the lagoon where I'd have been ok.

Also while the clearance in the Intercoastal is supposed to be 6', it
isn't. There were sections where I had to await high tide to pass over
and other sections where I needed to await low tide to pass under.

Specifically, while the clearance for the Dismal Swamp route is 6',
sunken logs, etc. made that route impassible to me and I'd wanted to see
it.

Over in the Bahamas, it's not guessing. There are many good places to
anchor which are marked as being less than the 6' I needed. Over in the
Pacific, as Edgar posted about the Baltic, the issue is more finding a
place where you have enough rode to anchor. Several times I anchored
with a rode maybe 1.5x the depth but so much was out, that it sufficed.

-paul

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:19:56 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

wrote:

Over in the
Pacific, as Edgar posted about the Baltic, the issue is more finding a
place where you have enough rode to anchor. Several times I anchored
with a rode maybe 1.5x the depth but so much was out, that it sufficed.

Many Pacific boats have 2000 feet or so of wire on a winch.

Casady

Richard Casady wrote:


Many Pacific boats have 2000 feet or so of wire on a winch.

Casady

Very true! They're called long liners!
Gordon

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:31:21 -0700, Gordon wrote:

Richard Casady wrote:


Many Pacific boats have 2000 feet or so of wire on a winch.

Casady

Very true! They're called long liners!

At one time I considered a cheap, the fish are gone, longliner. The
kind with 50 miles of 700 lb mono. About 1200 hooks. I figured that it
wouldn't make a bad cruiser as is. They go 10 knots for a month. They
put a 400 HP engine on a 100 footer, and cruise something like 6000
miles per trip. Time was when you could catch 40 tons of swordfish in
one trip. There is a movie about a long liner, THe boat, a 100
footer, in the movie that didn't sink, the Hannah Boden, was for sale
and I thought about making an offer, Like I said, the fish are gone. A
actual trawler yacht, of all things.

Casady

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
. ..
I agree. When I sailed in the North Pacific, the draft of my full keel
boat didn't matter as the shore seemed to drop right off wherever I was.

However, my next boat was in the Atlantic and drew 6' (mod fin keel). I
spent time in the Intercoastal and tried getting to certain places close
inshore. Time after time I was frustrated at how often interesting places
were closed to me.

That got much worse when I got to FL / Caribbean. I never even tried the
Keys or the west coast of FL either which I suppose would be just that
much more annoying.

I think you are right. My boat was in Florida when I bought it and I do
not think it had been much used there since it was brought down from the
Great Lakes area, because it draws 7' and they even ran it aground going
to the shipyard to haul it out for me.
Now in Norway the problem is more often finding somewhere shallow enough
to drop anchor.
People in many places here can moor a 40' deep keel yacht to a small
pontoon at the bottom of their gardens and just step aboard.



Now that people have shown the benefits of a Shoal Draft, what are the
benefits of a longer draft say 6 - 7 feet?

wrote:

Now that people have shown the benefits of a Shoal Draft, what are the
benefits of a longer draft say 6 - 7 feet?


Less drifting off your heading when close to the wind. Less heeling
angle. Both if all other things remain equal.

In theory, a centerboard or swing keel will address both issues and I
almost bought one. Later, while in a boatyard for a minor refit, I saw a
centerboard boat (Hood designed) which had its centerboard box fouled
with barnacles, etc. Thus the centerboard would not operate.

I heard the boat guys saying how much it'd cost to put things right and
that cured me from having a similar design. Of course, to be fair, the
design was ok, but the guy let the boat sit on a mooring for years in
tropical waters.

-paul

wrote in message
...

"Edgar" wrote in message

Now that people have shown the benefits of a Shoal Draft, what are the
benefits of a longer draft say 6 - 7 feet?
It is nice on a windward beat in strong winds to power past other less well
ballasted boats sailing on their ears with reduced canvas.
Just make sure you have a crew that feels the same...