If this is an attached fin keel then I would be more concerned with the long
term effect of the compression load where the keel is attached..

Say the ballast only accounts for 4 to 6 tons, the remainder of the 10 ton
will be concentrated on the faying surface between the keel and the hull..
This could ultimately cause damage to the internal keels support
structures..

I recommend you consult the boat designer or builder or a competent naval
architect..

Again, I find not fault in holding the boat upright with the mast but this
provides not under hull support.


--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

If this is an attached fin keel then I would be more concerned with the long
term effect of the compression load where the keel is attached..

Say the ballast only accounts for 4 to 6 tons, the remainder of the 10 ton
will be concentrated on the faying surface between the keel and the hull..
This could ultimately cause damage to the internal keels support
structures..

I recommend you consult the boat designer or builder or a competent naval
architect..

Again, I find not fault in holding the boat upright with the mast but this
provides not under hull support.


--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

"beryl george" wrote in message
...

The boat weight is around 10 ton with a 50 foot
plus mast and a moderate keel that is level bottom.

All thoughts very much appreciated I have not seen
or done or attempted any thing like this before.


Sounds like extreme folly to me. The mast will bend, the lines will stretch,
the boat will teeter and tip one way or another. Then anything might happen.
And you are going to do this in among a lot of other boats? Think long and
hard about the consequnces of it falling over, then ask yourself how you
could ever have thought it was a good idea.

Tim W

beryl george wrote:

Or has anyone any other suggestions of a better
way to support the boat whilst it is epoxied.

How about using some of those angled jacks that sit on the ground? Set them
up fairly near the pads on the cradle, then lower the cradle pads and paint
the bits they were covering.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

I've done this when I beach my boat for bottom scrubbing or when I'm on a
"Grid". (If I'm on a Grid, there is usually a set of pilings to lean
against on one side but it is still a good idea to run a halyard off that
side to make sure she has a list in the direction of the piling as the tide
goes out.)

You should be ok on the hard, however it might depend on how your boat is
built. If it is an older wooden boat, you may need the support of stands to
help keep her shape. The frame and keel structure relies on support
distributed over the entire under water surface, not just the keel. The keel
should support only about 50% while the side supports the remainder.. (this
is a general rule of thumb for steel ships in dry dock.)

If your boat is fiberglass and has a fin or attached keel, you also should
be using a cradle of boat stands. Even then you need support of the stem and
stern.

There should be no problem using the mast and rigging to keep the boat
upright, as long as she is landed and maintained in a vertical conditions. I
wouldn't recommend moving a lot of fuel or weight around if your just
holding her with halyards.

--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

beryl george wrote:
From other members of the news group thoughts and
experience am I missing something or is this something
that can be carried out providing there is care with
a reasonable degree of ease and safety.

The plan is to block of the foot of the keel and
secure ropes from the top of the mast out to the
sides at about 45 degrees to hold the boat upright
so the support pads on the wintering cradle can be
lowered to allow unhindered access to apply the
4 plus coats of epoxy coating to the under sides.

Or has anyone any other suggestions of a better
way to support the boat whilst it is epoxied.

The boat weight is around 10 ton with a 50 foot
plus mast and a moderate keel that is level bottom.

All thoughts very much appreciated I have not seen
or done or attempted any thing like this before.

How is this any different from the problems of antifouling the same boat?
You simply add supports and wedges adjacent to the existing pads then drop
the main support legs, paint over the pad areas, then wait for the epoxy to
dry and re-attach the main legs, dropping the other two temporary props. We
used to do this every spring on our Hustler 36, (with the mast still up).
The temporary supports need to be fairly sunstantial. Does no-one remember
life before the diesel-powered boat hoist?

Remove "nospam" from return address.

Dennis Pogson wrote:

How is this any different from the problems of antifouling the same boat?
You simply add supports and wedges adjacent to the existing pads then drop
the main support legs, paint over the pad areas, then wait for the epoxy
to dry and re-attach the main legs, dropping the other two temporary
props. We used to do this every spring on our Hustler 36, (with the mast
still up). The temporary supports need to be fairly sunstantial.

I suspect what he wants to do is spray on umpteen coats, each time
doing the whole underwater hull in one go, and the drying coats would
get damaged by being scrunched by any supports.

Does no-one remember life before the diesel-powered boat hoist?

To be sure. AFAIK life at Port Edgar is still like that. They have
one fixed electric crane at the end of the pier, and they drag boats,
on their cradles, around the site on trolleys pulled by a lawnmower
tractor. The trolley axles have built-in hydraulic lifts, and one
of the axles is removable. The cradles are lowered onto stacks of
diced railway sleepers, and the trolley is then lowered and pulled
away from underneath.

Two advantages are that they can park the boats a lot closer together
than with a travel hoist, and that boats can be manoeuvred into
sheds with limited headroom (especially headroom at the doors).

Disadvantages are that it takes longer, and that use of cradles is
mandatory. They can't deal with boats to be propped up on sticks.

Dennis Pogson wrote:

How is this any different from the problems of antifouling the same boat?
You simply add supports and wedges adjacent to the existing pads then drop
the main support legs, paint over the pad areas, then wait for the epoxy
to dry and re-attach the main legs, dropping the other two temporary
props. We used to do this every spring on our Hustler 36, (with the mast
still up). The temporary supports need to be fairly sunstantial.

I suspect what he wants to do is spray on umpteen coats, each time
doing the whole underwater hull in one go, and the drying coats would
get damaged by being scrunched by any supports.

Does no-one remember life before the diesel-powered boat hoist?

To be sure. AFAIK life at Port Edgar is still like that. They have
one fixed electric crane at the end of the pier, and they drag boats,
on their cradles, around the site on trolleys pulled by a lawnmower
tractor. The trolley axles have built-in hydraulic lifts, and one
of the axles is removable. The cradles are lowered onto stacks of
diced railway sleepers, and the trolley is then lowered and pulled
away from underneath.

Two advantages are that they can park the boats a lot closer together
than with a travel hoist, and that boats can be manoeuvred into
sheds with limited headroom (especially headroom at the doors).

Disadvantages are that it takes longer, and that use of cradles is
mandatory. They can't deal with boats to be propped up on sticks.

beryl george wrote:

The plan is to block of the foot of the keel and
secure ropes from the top of the mast out to the
sides at about 45 degrees to hold the boat upright
so the support pads on the wintering cradle can be
lowered to allow unhindered access to apply the
4 plus coats of epoxy coating to the under sides.

To what do you propose to tie the other ends of the ropes?

Or has anyone any other suggestions of a better
way to support the boat whilst it is epoxied.

Wouldn't it be simpler just to run ropes from the bottom
corners of the cradle frame to strong points on deck?

beryl george wrote:

From other members of the news group thoughts and
experience am I missing something or is this something
that can be carried out providing there is care with
a reasonable degree of ease and safety.

The plan is to block of the foot of the keel and
secure ropes from the top of the mast out to the
sides at about 45 degrees to hold the boat upright
so the support pads on the wintering cradle can be
lowered

Well, provided you have something very secure to anchor the far end of
the ropes to, that would work fine.

But you could shortcut the procedure and not take up nearly so much room
by using some "legs" which could be simple stout poles, or something a
bit more complex, secured to the boat's chainplates. That's what holds
the mast up, so you'd be using the same part of the hull which is built
ver very strongly... but you'd be saving all the stress on the rig.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King