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Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6 (or maybe another choice, the TohatsuMFS4BS)--the Tohatsu 4HP Makes The Final Cut.
On Apr 22, 6:31*am, Martin Baxter wrote:
Jay wrote: Suzuki 4-stroke for $600 delivered but I opted for the extra oomph of the 4hp Tohatsu and the 7-hour run time with the auxiliary tank. *I figure it'll be $300 more well spent in the long run. Good, let us know how it works out. Cheers, Marty xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Well, Marty, it didn't work out. This has been a joint adventure among three buddies. We take turns using the boat and sometimes go fishing in it together. After the dealer cordially, and in a very friendly and helpful tone, agreed to the $900 price my buddy Dee proposed for all of the equipment I stated in an earlier post, the dealer abruptly decided that the deal was too "involved" as he put it and backpedaled right out the back door. He apparently began to think it was too "involved" when Dee sent an email outlining all the details he had mutually agreed to on the telephone and asked the dealer to simply reply and confirm that he had all aspects of the deal correct. This apparently caused the cold realization of what he had promised to trigger a rapidly-advancing case of seller's remorse and he did the 180 on us. Needless to say, the link to that liar's business has been removed from my desktop and favorites. But the story doesn't end there. The other choice we had pondered, the Suzuki 2.5 hp, then reappeared and I contacted a very helpful and friendly Ray Jr. at The Boat Place in Florida (thanx Charles) and my $600 check for that motor delivered to the house is "in the mail" as the expression goes. BTW, Ray Jr. didn't have any problem with replying to the same type of email confirming the details of the purchase. Hmmmmm. Guess there are still some dealers left who aren't all blow and no show. Now I know that the Soozooky probably won't push us around the lake any more than a fast walk but hey, every dealer in this area wants a grand for it and the NADA used book on the 2007 is about what I'm paying for the 2008 new so I shouldn't have any problem recouping my money by selling it locally if it doesn't work out. And of course none of us has missed much boating fun by these little delays since the daily temps have been in the high 30's and even a fast-walk speed can put a wind chill factor on you that could take away from the pleasure of motoring across the lake. (The ice floes might present a problem too---lol). -Jay PS---Once we get the Suzuki and strap that powerhouse on, I'll offer a full report on how it works out. And if it doesn't, check for a hot deal on a Suzuki 2.5 on Ebay. LOL |
Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6 (or maybe another choice, the Tohatsu MFS4BS)--theTohatsu 4HP Makes The Final Cut.
Jay wrote:
[sipped Jay's saga of disreputable dealers} PS---Once we get the Suzuki and strap that powerhouse on, I'll offer a full report on how it works out. And if it doesn't, check for a hot deal on a Suzuki 2.5 on Ebay. LOL Too bad about the Tohatsu, but I'm sure you'll fine the Suzuki moves you along just fine, great for trolling, easy on gas. I've used my Merc 2.2 and a backup on my 15' Springbok, it pushed me home just fine when the Johnson 60 conked. About 5 miles, took an hour, but beat the hell out of rowing. Cheers Marty |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them,in tandem?
On Apr 25, 4:36*pm, Marty wrote: I've used my Merc
2.2 and a backup on my 15' Springbok, it pushed me home just fine when the Johnson 60 conked. *About 5 miles, took an hour, but beat the hell out of rowing. Cheers Marty Marty, anything beats the hell out of rowing especially if you're in the middle of a large reservoir and the wind comes up. lol -Jay I realize all of you are probably tired of all of these questions from the outboard rookie here but indulge me one more time. If a person strapped TWO of those Suzuki 2.5hp outboards (only 29 lbs. each) to the back of the boat, one on each side, what would be the effect? 5hp? Double the speed? Double the noise? Nothing? Just curious... -Jay |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:30:45 -0700 (PDT), Jay
wrote: On Apr 25, 4:36*pm, Marty wrote: I've used my Merc 2.2 and a backup on my 15' Springbok, it pushed me home just fine when the Johnson 60 conked. *About 5 miles, took an hour, but beat the hell out of rowing. Cheers Marty Marty, anything beats the hell out of rowing especially if you're in the middle of a large reservoir and the wind comes up. lol -Jay I realize all of you are probably tired of all of these questions from the outboard rookie here but indulge me one more time. If a person strapped TWO of those Suzuki 2.5hp outboards (only 29 lbs. each) to the back of the boat, one on each side, what would be the effect? 5hp? Double the speed? Double the noise? Nothing? Just curious... -Jay Well, it will be double the noise and approximately double the fuel consumption but perhaps not double the speed. You might "Ping" Roger as to why doubling the Horse Power doesn't necessarily mean double the speed. Has to do with all kind of hull forms and hydrodynamics and too much of it will make your eyes cross. But why stop with two, three, or even four! I see a lot of boats here with a couple of 250 h.p. engines strapped on the tail. I wonder what the "per minute" cost is for a couple of 2 stroke 250 hp engines at full song is? Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct email address for reply) |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:58:22 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote: You might "Ping" Roger as to why doubling the Horse Power doesn't necessarily mean double the speed. Has to do with all kind of hull forms and hydrodynamics and too much of it will make your eyes cross. Its very simple. Power required is proportional to the cube of the speed, and, [gets out the calculator that takes no prisoners], you get 1.26 times the speed. Mileage is inversely proportional to speed. That you can check for yourself, with your car. Casady |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO ofthem, in tandem?
On Apr 26, 3:38*am, (Richard Casady)
wrote: Its very simple. Power required is proportional to the cube of the speed, and, [gets out the calculator that takes no prisoners], you get 1.26 times the speed. Casady Thanks Casady, since I'll probably get 4 mph with the one Suzuki, if I strapped on another, does that mean I reach a whopping FIVE mph? (1.26 x 4) At that speed I could probably pull my cat water skiing. lol -Jay (being silly) |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO ofthem, in tandem?
Richard Casady wrote:
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:58:22 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok wrote: You might "Ping" Roger as to why doubling the Horse Power doesn't necessarily mean double the speed. Has to do with all kind of hull forms and hydrodynamics and too much of it will make your eyes cross. Its very simple. Power required is proportional to the cube of the speed, and, [gets out the calculator that takes no prisoners], you get 1.26 times the speed. Mileage is inversely proportional to speed. That you can check for yourself, with your car. Casady ASSuming the props are pitched for a higher speed than you alreaady get? |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
Jay wrote:
If a person strapped TWO of those Suzuki 2.5hp outboards (only 29 lbs. each) to the back of the boat, one on each side, what would be the effect? 5hp? Double the speed? Double the noise? Nothing? In your case, not much. At 2.5 - 5.0 hp, you're dealing with a displacement hull. So the difference in those two hp's doesn't do much for speed (noise yes, fuel yes, speed no). But if you started with 10hp, which would almost plane (but not quite) your boat, doubling the hp to 20hp would make a huge difference in speed. That would be enought to switch from displacement speeds to planing speeds. Big difference. So everything matters. Weight, drag, hull shape, like that. But the biggest difference in hp/speed ratio is when the hp is enough to get the mass over the displacement/planning hump. Rick |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
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The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO ofthem, in tandem?
On Apr 26, 5:15*am, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
I keep telling the guy, "call Roger". He don;t listen. Bruce-in-Bangkok Oh, he DO listen but he's just gathering alternate info from other sources. I'll get around to the head guru Roger soon. What's taking up my time is trying to figure why those power maniacs around you are strapping two of the big blasters to their boats. As you stated, "I see a lot of boats here with a couple of 250 h.p. engines strapped on the tail." Curious why they don't just strap ONE 500 hp motor on the back instead of two 250s if there's not an advantage. Curious.... -Jay (who listens........................................... ...........occasionally) |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:30:45 -0700 (PDT), Jay
wrote: If a person strapped TWO of those Suzuki 2.5hp outboards (only 29 lbs. each) to the back of the boat, one on each side, what would be the effect? 5hp? Double the speed? Double the noise? Nothing? Just curious... If you want to go significantly faster you need enough power to get on plane. That will take 10 to 20 hp for your boat depending on how heavily loaded it is. The complexity of trying to steer two outboards is reason enough not to do it but there are other reasons also like increased drag, fuel consumption and maintenance. Most dual outboard installations are done for redundancy on offshore boats or where the boat is heavy enough that no single motor provides enough power. |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Jay
wrote: "I see a lot of boats here with a couple of 250 h.p. engines strapped on the tail." Curious why they don't just strap ONE 500 hp motor on the back instead of two 250s if there's not an advantage. It's simple. 250 is as big as they make them, you can't get a 500HP engine. Casady |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:54:06 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: The complexity of trying to steer two outboards is reason enough not to do it Its simple,not complex. A tie bar between the tillers and you have it. Casady |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO ofthem, in tandem?
Jay wrote:
If a person strapped TWO of those Suzuki 2.5hp outboards (only 29 lbs. each) to the back of the boat, one on each side, what would be the effect? 5hp? Double the speed? Double the noise? Nothing? Just curious... Well Jay, I can speak from experience, here. When my son was about 15 he wanted to know what happens if we put both the 2HP Evenrude, ant the 2.2. Merc on the back of the punt; I figure what the hell, let's try it. You go a bit faster, maybe 25%, (which jibes with other posters statements), and use twice the gas, but have four times the fun trying to keep the thing going straight! :-) Cheers Marty |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Jay
wrote: On Apr 26, 5:15*am, Bruce in Bangkok wrote: I keep telling the guy, "call Roger". He don;t listen. Bruce-in-Bangkok Oh, he DO listen but he's just gathering alternate info from other sources. I'll get around to the head guru Roger soon. What's taking up my time is trying to figure why those power maniacs around you are strapping two of the big blasters to their boats. As you stated, "I see a lot of boats here with a couple of 250 h.p. engines strapped on the tail." Curious why they don't just strap ONE 500 hp motor on the back instead of two 250s if there's not an advantage. Curious.... -Jay (who listens.......................................... ............occasionally) I don't have a clue. I'm the buy that thinks a 5 HP engine is a BIG motor. I guess because it is cool. "Man, I've got the biggest engines in town", or because they listen to Cassady and think that two engines make them go twice as fast. Hell, I don't know. Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct email address for reply) |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message ... Hell, I don't know. For once you speak the truth! Keep up the good work, Bruce. Wilbur Hubbard |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 09:46:45 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote: "cavelamb himself" wrote You might "Ping" Roger as to why doubling the Horse Power doesn't necessarily mean double the speed. Has to do with all kind of hull forms and hydrodynamics and too much of it will make your eyes cross. As has been pointed out here, I have no *formal* training in naval architecture and am therefore unqualified to comment. I do know that it is an immutable law of the universe however and always obey it even when I don't see any physics cops in my rearview mirror. BTW good bio article about Ray Hunt in the latest "Yachting". Another guy with no formal training in the field. I believe it is called empirical learning. I've seen half models carved a hundred years ago that wouldn't bring any shame on a "modern" designer. Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct email address for reply) |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 09:46:45 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote: "cavelamb himself" wrote You might "Ping" Roger as to why doubling the Horse Power doesn't necessarily mean double the speed. Has to do with all kind of hull forms and hydrodynamics and too much of it will make your eyes cross. As has been pointed out here, I have no *formal* training in naval architecture and am therefore unqualified to comment. I do know that it is an immutable law of the universe however and always obey it even when I don't see any physics cops in my rearview mirror. BTW good bio article about Ray Hunt in the latest "Yachting". Another guy with no formal training in the field. I believe it is called empirical learning. I've seen half models carved a hundred years ago that wouldn't bring any shame on a "modern" designer. Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct email address for reply) |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO ofthem, in tandem or even FOUR??
On Apr 26, 3:47*pm, Marty wrote: You go a bit
faster, maybe 25%, (which jibes with other posters statements), and use twice the gas, but have four times the fun trying to keep the thing going straight! :-) Cheers, Marty Now THAT sounds like a formula for an afternoon of fun boating! But as far as keeping it going straight, wouldn't an outrigger setup with yet two more 2.5 hp throbbers mounted one on each side like jet engines hanging off the wing of an airplane make it "steady as she goes?" I guess if one is gonna go to all that trouble, a better thought might be just one 9.8 hp hanging on the tail. But I bet the other setup would get a lot of attention and perhaps even earn one the title of "coolest boater dude on the lake" or "nutcase boater of the year." -Jay |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem or even FOUR??
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:34:59 -0700 (PDT), Jay
wrote: On Apr 26, 3:47*pm, Marty wrote: You go a bit faster, maybe 25%, (which jibes with other posters statements), and use twice the gas, but have four times the fun trying to keep the thing going straight! :-) Cheers, Marty Now THAT sounds like a formula for an afternoon of fun boating! But as far as keeping it going straight, wouldn't an outrigger setup with yet two more 2.5 hp throbbers mounted one on each side like jet engines hanging off the wing of an airplane make it "steady as she goes?" I guess if one is gonna go to all that trouble, a better thought might be just one 9.8 hp hanging on the tail. But I bet the other setup would get a lot of attention and perhaps even earn one the title of "coolest boater dude on the lake" or "nutcase boater of the year." -Jay Depending on the observer the two terms may very will be synonymous. Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct email address for reply) |
The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:05:50 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote: "Bruce in Bangkok" wrote I believe it is called empirical learning. I've seen half models carved a hundred years ago that wouldn't bring any shame on a "modern" designer. Also called on the job training. I taught myself the rudiments of sailboat design as a senior thesis project in the private high school I went to and then designed a boat for a friend that summer. When I decided to take a year off after my first trimester of college, those plans were good enough to get me a job with Philip L. Rhodes in New York. A couple years later I went to work for a commercial boat design firm. I'd been on the job about two weeks when the boss came out and said, "We need a 55 foot offshore lobster boat, here, you do it.". About 20 years later I realized, "Oh , ****, I forgot to go back to college!". Used to be called an apprenticeship. I don't believe that Donald McKay ever went to collage either. Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct email address for reply) |
Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
On Apr 15, 10:54 am, Martin Baxter wrote:
I'll bet that mostoutboardmanufactures measure output of just the head, no shaft, no water pump. Cheers Marty No, outboard power for all manufacturers has been measured at the propshaft since the mid-1980s. %mod% |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
At last, the 2.5 hp Suzuki 4-stroker I ordered from friendly Ray Jr.
at the Boat Place in Naples, Florida has arrived! Today, on a sunny afternoon, I mounted that baby on the back of my 14' 6" aluminum yacht dfrom G3, put 10-30w marine 4-cycle oil in it and about a pint of super unleaded, set it in neutral, stuck the shaft in a 5-gallon bucket of water, gave only 2 tugs on the rope and putt-putt- putt I was in business. Pretty quiet motor too. And, when I shifted into forward at idle speed, it really started churning the water in that bucket so have a feeling it'll drive me around those lakes at the breakneck speed of at least 4-5 mph. I am now the official owner of my first outboard motor...seeya oars, no more sore shoulders after a day at the lake...it's KICK-BACK-TIME! -Jay |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
On Wed, 14 May 2008 22:56:27 -0700 (PDT), Jay
wrote: At last, the 2.5 hp Suzuki 4-stroker I ordered from friendly Ray Jr. at the Boat Place in Naples, Florida has arrived! Today, on a sunny afternoon, I mounted that baby on the back of my 14' 6" aluminum yacht dfrom G3, put 10-30w marine 4-cycle oil in it and about a pint of super unleaded, set it in neutral, stuck the shaft in a 5-gallon bucket of water, gave only 2 tugs on the rope and putt-putt- putt I was in business. Pretty quiet motor too. And, when I shifted into forward at idle speed, it really started churning the water in that bucket so have a feeling it'll drive me around those lakes at the breakneck speed of at least 4-5 mph. I am now the official owner of my first outboard motor...seeya oars, no more sore shoulders after a day at the lake...it's KICK-BACK-TIME! -Jay 'till you run out of gas...... Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom) |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
On May 15, 3:42*am, wrote:
You should always carry the oars along. Someday you wuill be very glad you did. Does your engine's manual specify super unleaded? If not, you really should stick to regular. Super burns "cooler" Oh, I also have the oars along in brand new oarlocks I also bought. In regards to the fuel, I just happened to have a fresh gallon jug of super unleaded sitting in the garage that I used. I'll probably just run regular unleaded in it from now on. I'm gonna try and take it to the lake this weekend and should have a full report next week. -Jay (Who still can't believe he got a brand new 2008 Suzuki DF2.5 for $600 delivered to his door when all the local area dealers wanted $1000 for the exact same motor. SHEESH...) |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
On Wed, 14 May 08, Jay wrote:
stuck the shaft in a 5-gallon bucket of water, For a motor that small, maybe that's deep enough. I dunno. Just be sure the water level in the bucket is higher than the water pump impeller. You want the "impeller" under water... I've run into people who think all they need is to have the prop in the water. Not so. Most outboard water pumps are not good at sucking water up from a lower level. Even slightly lower. Rick |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
On May 15, 8:33*am, wrote:
On Wed, 14 May 08, Jay *wrote: stuck the shaft in a 5-gallon bucket of water, For a motor that small, maybe that's deep enough. I dunno. Just be sure the water level in the bucket is higher than the water pump impeller. You want the "impeller" under water... I've run into people who think all they need is to have the prop in the water. Not so. Most outboard water pumps are not good at sucking water up from a lower level. Even slightly lower. Rick Rick, I'll check on that but we had the shaft pretty submerged. Tomorrow I'll measure how far up the shaft the water was and let you know. Thanks for the heads-up. -Jay |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
On May 16, 3:34*am, wrote:
As long as you got a stream of water out of the pee-hole, you have no worries about how deep of a bucket you used. So that's what those two little tiny adjacent holes higher up on the shaft are called? There was a stream of water coming out of them. Why is water coming out there? If you guessed I'm an outboard newbie, you guessed right. -Jay |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
On May 16, 6:34*am, wrote:
On Fri, 16 May 2008 04:53:24 -0700 (PDT), Jay wrote: On May 16, 3:34*am, wrote: As long as you got a stream of water out of the pee-hole, you have no worries about how deep of a bucket you used. So that's what those two little tiny adjacent holes higher up on the shaft are called? *There was a stream of water coming out of them. *Why is water coming out there? *If you guessed I'm an outboard newbie, you guessed right. -Jay The pee-hole, also called the "tell-tale" is a single hole or little rubber tube sticking out on the underside of the engine cover. It should always ALWAYS have a steady stream of water coming out of it from within about one second of when you start the engine and whenever it is running at any RPM. If not, immediately shut down and investigate. I think you had better put everything on hold and go read your owners manual very carefully before you break something. Actually, the two tiny adjacent holes I spoke about that are 19" above the center of the prop and about 4.5": below the motor are apparently the so-called "pee holes" and/or "tell-tale" holes on that particular model (DF2.5) of Suzuki outboard. And yes, as I stated before, water is squirting out of those during test operation in the water bucket. And from what I've surmised, this ejection of water through those two little holes indicates that the water pump is functioning correctly and if it weren't, then, since it's a water- cooled motor, serious overheating and/or damage could occur. Am I right on these points? Now don't be jealous because I have TWO pee holes on my outboard and you only have ONE on yours. LOL. -Jay |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
"Jay" wrote in message ... Now don't be jealous because I have TWO pee holes on my outboard and you only have ONE on yours. LOL. -Jay I just read the specs and that thing is way heavy. 30 pounds for a 2.5 HP? YIKES! https://secure.suzuki.com/marine/_m/brochures/df2.5.pdf I used to have a 3.5 HP Mariner two-stroke vintage 1995. It weighed 19 pounds. And they call this four stroke heavyweight progress? Gimme a break! Wilbur Hubbard |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
On Fri, 16 May 08, Jay wrote:
Now don't be jealous because I have TWO pee holes on my outboard and you only have ONE on yours. My entire life I've heard the expression "Lucky as a two dick dog" but I don't think I've ever heard of a 2 pee hole outboard lol! Not saying it's not possible though, I don't know anything about Suzuki. I have a small Honda though with two holes like that but one is a tell tale and the other is a carb drain. But if you're tell tale is squirting water, your pump is deep enough in the bucket. With only a 5 gallon bucket though, I'd make sure it's spuirting back in the bucket and not on the ground. You could end up pumping your cooling water out of the bucket ;-) Sounds like you have it under control though. But I agree with the suggestion to read your owners manual. Rick |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (And the cooling system isworking!)
Okay, I took the advice and re-read my owner's manual and found that
Suzuki calls the two tiny holes I described earlier the "pilot holes." And yes, they are what others have been referring to as the pee hole(s) and/or tell-tale hole(s) as they serve the same purpose. According to the manual, when water is squirting out of these two little holes while the motor is running, it indicates the cooling system is working properly. So it sounds like that mystery is solved. Thanks again for the reminder. -Jay |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
On May 17, 4:21*am, wrote:
I just checked, and can't find the owners manual for your outboard on the Suzuki website. It sounds odd that there would be 2 tell tales. Very odd. I'd really double check that in the manual. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx That's where I got it from...the Suzuki owner's manual, complete with a diagram showing two streams of water squirting out of the pilot holes. (Page 21 of manual). On that page, under "cooling water check" it states, "Cooling water is intermittently discharged from the pilot water holes at medium engine speeds. Water is not normally discharged at other speeds even when the engine is operating properly. However, cooling system operation can be confirmed as follows: 1---Place the shift selector lever in the neutral position with the motor idling. 2---Increase and decrease the engine speed five or six times in succession by opening and closing the throttle smoothly and without stopping in any one throttle position. 3---If water is discharged from the pilot water holes under this operating condition, the cooling system is working properly. If water is not discharged, stop the engine as soon as possible and consult your authorized Suzuki Marine dealer. It then states: CAUTION Never operate your outboard motor when there is no water coming out of the pilot water holes or severe damage can result. Before setting off, be sure that emergency stop switch operates properly. You have now read exactly the same thing as I have read since I lifted it word-for-word from the official owner's manual for the Suzuki DF2.5 outboard motor. The Suzuki owner's manual is part #99011-97J02-03B. -Jay xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx The tell tale does not completely guarantee that the engine is being cooled, but it does show that the pump is at least working and sending water up as far as the tell-tale. If the water passages in the engine itself are blocked, the tell tale will actually pee HARDER. If the pump is allowed to run while dry, the impeller is damaged or destroyed within seconds, as in less than a minute. If I owned a motor that either was started for just an instant without the leg in water, or saw no water from the tell tale after a couple of seconds, I would automatically replace the impeller without any further debate. I carry a spare impeller or two on the mothership at all times. They are a lot less expensive than a motor rebuild or replacement. You should plan on replacing the impeller every other season regardless of anything else, including whether the motor was even used or not. It's not a hard job, but it's an important bit of maintenance.- Hide quoted text - |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
Jay wrote:
"Water is NOT normally discharged at other speeds even when the engine is operating properly. Salty wrote: Truly bizarre. Especially when coupled with the part that says: "Never operate your outboard motor when there is no water coming out of the pilot water holest". I think the same guy writes the Honda manuals ;-) Rick |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (And the cooling system is working!)
On Sat, 17 May 2008 00:09:12 -0700 (PDT), Jay
wrote: when water is squirting out of these two little holes while the motor is running, it indicates the cooling system is working properly. So it sounds like that mystery is solved. Except for the part that says it's still ok when it's not squirting.... unless severe damage occurs lol! I think Salty said it best ... "Truly bizarre". I think I would call a Suzuki mechanic (not a salesman) and get an explanation that makes sense.. And pin him down if necessary. That owners manual is as ambiguous as any I've heard about. |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (And the cooling system isworking!)
On May 17, 8:40*am, wrote:
Except for the part that says it's still ok when it's not squirting.... unless severe damage occurs lol! I think Salty said it best ... "Truly bizarre". I don't recall that statement (...it's still ok when it's not squirting.... unless severe damage occurs...) being in the manual. I think I would call a Suzuki mechanic (not a salesman) and get an explanation that makes sense.. And pin him down if necessary. That owners manual is as ambiguous as any I've heard about. I already did contact a Suzuki mechanic and he confirmed that Suzuki calls them pilot holes, not pee or tell-tale holes and that they serve the same purpose as pee holes and/or tell-tale holes. I agree that sometimes things appear "bizarre" but sometimes they do simply because some are not aware of them, not because they are necessarily in error. The manual states, "Cooling water is intermittently discharged from the pilot water holes at medium engine speeds. Water is not normally discharged at other speeds even when the engine is operating properly. However, cooling system operation can be confirmed as follows: 1---Place the shift selector lever in the NEUTRAL position with the motor idling. 2---Increase and decrease the engine speed five or six times in succession by opening and closing the throttle smoothly and without stopping in any one throttle position. 3---If water is discharged from the pilot water holes under this operating condition, the cooling system is working properly. If water is not discharged, stop the engine as soon as possible and consult your authorized Suzuki Marine dealer." It then states: CAUTION Never OPERATE (perhaps they are referring to having the motor in GEAR, not NEUTRAL as stated above) your outboard motor when there is no water coming out of the pilot water holes or severe damage can result. Before setting off, be sure that emergency stop switch operates properly. Perhaps there's a difference between having the motor idling in neutral and operating the motor under stress in gear in regards to the functionality and/or creating possible damage in regards to the cooling system? -Jay |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (And the cooling system is working!)
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (And the cooling system is working!)
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... I've run my 20 horse Honda in a 5 gallon pail when no other choice was available. Just curious. Why would you do that? Don't you realize that 4-stroke outboards store almost indefinitely without needing to be run to keep the piston from corroding and seizing to the cylinder? It's because the cylinder and rings and piston are bathed by pure oil and not some diluted mist like in a two-stroke motor. Also, most of the time a single cylinder four-stroke engine, due to camshaft configuration, will stop with the piston at or near TDC with the valves closed. This effectively seals the innards from corrosion causing moisture. -- Gregory Hall -- Gregory Hall |
The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (And the cooling system isworking!)
On May 17, 3:02*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 17 May 2008 13:45:22 -0700 (PDT), Jay wrote: On May 17, 8:40*am, wrote: Except for the part that says it's still ok when it's not squirting.... unless severe damage occurs lol! *I think Salty said it best ... "Truly bizarre". I don't recall that statement (...it's still ok when it's not squirting.... unless severe damage occurs...) being in the manual. I think I would call a Suzuki mechanic (not a salesman) and get an explanation that makes sense.. And pin him down if necessary. That owners manual is as ambiguous as any I've heard about. I already did contact a Suzuki mechanic and he confirmed that Suzuki calls them pilot holes, not pee or tell-tale holes and that they serve the same purpose as pee holes and/or tell-tale holes. *I agree that sometimes things appear "bizarre" but sometimes they do simply because some are not aware of them, not because they are necessarily in error. The manual states, "Cooling water is intermittently discharged from the pilot water holes at medium engine speeds. *Water is not normally discharged at other speeds even when the engine is operating properly. *However, cooling system operation can be confirmed as follows: 1---Place the shift selector lever in the NEUTRAL position with the motor idling. 2---Increase and decrease the engine speed five or six times in succession by opening and closing the throttle smoothly and without stopping in any one throttle position. 3---If water is discharged from the pilot water holes under this operating condition, the cooling system is working properly. *If water is not discharged, stop the engine as soon as possible and consult your authorized Suzuki Marine dealer." It then states: *CAUTION *Never OPERATE (perhaps they are referring to having the motor in GEAR, not NEUTRAL as stated above) your outboard motor when there is no water coming out of the pilot water holes or severe damage can result. *Before setting off, be sure that emergency stop switch operates properly. Perhaps there's a difference between having the motor idling in neutral and operating the motor under stress in gear in regards to the functionality and/or creating possible damage in regards to the cooling system? -Jay The purpose of a tell-tale, regardless of what you want to call it, is to be a CONSTANT indicator that the water pump is working. So it makes no difference in this particular Suzuki model, first designed and manufactured in 2006, whether or not the engine is under load (i.e. in gear as opposed to idling in neutral) as to the necessity of the water pump squirting water out of the pilot holes? That is why ALL small outboards have them. If Suzuki has built an engine with a tell tale, pilot hole, or pee-hole that does not emit water under ALL operating conditions then the only answer is that they made a big mistake in their design, and should issue a recall to rectify it. So therefore it's not at all possible that a new design created just 18-24 months ago by Suzuki could have created a motor that is not like ALL other motors and that no mistake at all was made? There is no good reason on earth why the cooling water indicator on an outboard should ever stop squirting while the motor is running. That's a potentially fatal flaw. Or perhaps there is no good reason I. you or several others can think of at this time? Not trying to disagree with what you're saying but just keeping an open mind. I've found that I get used to things being a certain way in other matters and sometimes have difficulty accepting they could be done differently and be just as good, and not necessarily "wrong." I guess the best way to resolve this issue is perhaps to write American Suzuki Marine, P.O. Box 1100, Brea, CA 92822 and give 'em the what for...lol. Tell you what. I'll take the boat out soon, putt around the lake and if no water squirts out all the time and the motor seizes up, I'll feed it to Suzuki for lunch. If I putt around the lake and water doesn't squirt out all the time and nothing overheats and/or seizes up, I guess then I'll know that they didn't screw up and they did design a motor to operate exactly as stated in the manual and that all other fears basesd on other outboard motors are therefore groundless. Does that sound reasonable? -Jay |
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