wrote in message
...


Usually, before starting to tow a boat a waiver has to be signed and
agreed by the captain of the boat being towed.


Negligence can't be waived.

What is today's date????

Got 'em, Martie!






"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
mister b wrote:
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:57:07 -0700, dougking888 wrote:

Sounds pretty bad. I can't believe that the Coasties were pulling a ~40'
boat and not keeping a lookout on the tow.

almost impossible to believe given the images I've seen of the sea ice
conditions they were transiting, and the fact that the towed ship had no
rudder...but a lack of a lookout is what is being alleged...hopefully the
truth will out in the investigation...in the meantime 4 souls are lost
and 4 sealing families are devastated


Been listening to the story on CBC radio this morning at work. They were
interviewing a Capt. of a trailing boat, he claimed that the Coast Guard
were not answering his calls on VHF. He was in visual range and watched as
the disaster unfolded, he alleges that he repeatedly hailed the CG to warn
them that the tow was going pear shaped but got no answer.


It's possible that the cutbacks to the Coast Guard that have been imposed
over the last few years have impacted the service so much that the boats
are now undermanned and there's just not enough crew to run the ship
through ice and maintain lookouts fore and aft?

Cheers
Marty
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"Tony Helton" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...


Usually, before starting to tow a boat a waiver has to be signed and
agreed by the captain of the boat being towed.


Negligence can't be waived.

Let's make this clear, I am not for any parties in this dispute.
Between the common law, maritime law and jurisprudence you have a good
point.
Then you throw the "Act of god" in to this and we have a good blend.
In many instances a waiver is accepted over the a radio or sat/phone
transmissions and deemed as legal.
As you have stated "negligence" cannot be waived. However, negligence can
be applicable to the towee and tower.
I some jurisprudence the captain having the most proven skill and experience
has been seriously questioned?

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 17:51:37 -0400, Jill M wrote:

What is today's date????

Got 'em, Martie!

best spend a little less time watching American Idol and a little more
time watching the news there buttercup

wrote:
"Tony Helton" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...


Usually, before starting to tow a boat a waiver has to be signed and
agreed by the captain of the boat being towed.

Negligence can't be waived.

Let's make this clear, I am not for any parties in this dispute.
Between the common law, maritime law and jurisprudence you have a good
point.
Then you throw the "Act of god" in to this and we have a good blend.
In many instances a waiver is accepted over the a radio or sat/phone
transmissions and deemed as legal.
As you have stated "negligence" cannot be waived. However, negligence can
be applicable to the towee and tower.
I some jurisprudence the captain having the most proven skill and experience
has been seriously questioned?




My experience with the Canadian coasties has been pretty good. One
night, daughter and I turned out in the cold and dark, they found us a
room in the town next door.

A couple of weeks later they gave me a tow into Twillingate after I lost
my engine.

I found them to stand a regular VHF watch, though sometimes it was a bit
difficult getting them or, having got them the operator was far, far
away and unfamiliar with the harbour I was in.

Canadian Coasties are civil service, not military. Therefore they tend
to be locals and more "professional" in that they are making a career of
it. I would not be surprised at all if some of the ships crew were
either related or family acquaintances of the sealer. They will have a
lot of explaining to do at the bar, be it the legal or neighborhood
variety. My heart goes out to all involved.

Also, did anyone here follow the events in last years sealing season?
There were just bunches of boats caught in the ice. And the ferrys up
there are all pretty much in tough shape, so the breakers have been
having to keep ways open for them. Hell last week the Caribou, 300+ of
ice rated ferry, got caught outside of Sydney and it took two days and a
breaker to get her in. So these guys have been working there buts off.
Perhaps fatigue was an issue.

Check out current ice conditions he
http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/app/WsvPr...11091&Lang=eng

USCG during Nam was a good place to go to not go to Nam. The boat
service had a lot of folks who were scary in a boat. Aviation was
generally better because you had some real tough A school to get through
first. Still, there are stories best left untold. Least anyone be
tempted to snicker at the Canuks check out the USCG project Deepwater
fiasco.

hpeer wrote:

Canadian Coasties are civil service, not military. Therefore they tend
to be locals and more "professional" in that they are making a career of
it. I would not be surprised at all if some of the ships crew were
either related or family acquaintances of the sealer. They will have a
lot of explaining to do at the bar, be it the legal or neighborhood
variety. My heart goes out to all involved.


I dunno, I do know a few Canadian Coasties, and unfortunatly they are
like many civil servants, (and being one myself I both recognize the
type and apologize, many of us are hard working, dedicated loyal and
honest). Further as to knowing the sealers in question, I have my
doubts as the Madelaines are French, not Canadian territory, (what the
hell are they doing sealing in Canadian waters! ;-) ).

Cheers
Marty

"Marty" wrote in message
...
hpeer wrote:

Canadian Coasties are civil service, not military. Therefore they tend
to be locals and more "professional" in that they are making a career of
it. I would not be surprised at all if some of the ships crew were
either related or family acquaintances of the sealer. They will have a
lot of explaining to do at the bar, be it the legal or neighborhood
variety. My heart goes out to all involved.


I dunno, I do know a few Canadian Coasties, and unfortunatly they are like
many civil servants, (and being one myself I both recognize the type and
apologize, many of us are hard working, dedicated loyal and honest).
Further as to knowing the sealers in question, I have my doubts as the
Madelaines are French, not Canadian territory, (what the hell are they
doing sealing in Canadian waters! ;-) ).

Cheers
Marty


Uh uh!
those Islands belong to Quebec...
http://www.tourismeilesdelamadeleine.../index_ang.cfm
Don't confuse them with St. Pierre et Miquelon islands south of Newfoundland
which are a French territory.
http://www.routehsp.com/Routehsp.com/Welcome.html

Marty wrote:
hpeer wrote:

Canadian Coasties are civil service, not military. Therefore they
tend to be locals and more "professional" in that they are making a
career of it. I would not be surprised at all if some of the ships
crew were either related or family acquaintances of the sealer. They
will have a lot of explaining to do at the bar, be it the legal or
neighborhood variety. My heart goes out to all involved.


I dunno, I do know a few Canadian Coasties, and unfortunatly they are
like many civil servants, (and being one myself I both recognize the
type and apologize, many of us are hard working, dedicated loyal and
honest). Further as to knowing the sealers in question, I have my
doubts as the Madelaines are French, not Canadian territory, (what the
hell are they doing sealing in Canadian waters! ;-) ).

Cheers
Marty
Marty,

You are correct that it is less likely they knew them because they were
from the Madelaines. I forgot that detail. Your other points are well
taken also.

Marty wrote:
hpeer wrote:

Canadian Coasties are civil service, not military. Therefore they
tend to be locals and more "professional" in that they are making a
career of it. I would not be surprised at all if some of the ships
crew were either related or family acquaintances of the sealer. They
will have a lot of explaining to do at the bar, be it the legal or
neighborhood variety. My heart goes out to all involved.


I dunno, I do know a few Canadian Coasties, and unfortunatly they are
like many civil servants, (and being one myself I both recognize the
type and apologize, many of us are hard working, dedicated loyal and
honest). Further as to knowing the sealers in question, I have my
doubts as the Madelaines are French, not Canadian territory, (what the
hell are they doing sealing in Canadian waters! ;-) ).

Cheers
Marty
Marty,

You are correct that it is less likely they knew them because they were
from the Madelaines. I forgot that detail. Your other points are well
taken also.

More here, truly sad:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundlan...ast-guard.html

hpeer wrote:


You are correct that it is less likely they knew them because they were
from the Madelaines. I forgot that detail. Your other points are well
taken also.

actually I'm not, see Don's post.

More here, truly sad:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundlan...ast-guard.html



Looks like a mess alright. Sealers and fishermen generally have no love
of the Coast Guard when the CG are performing their regulatory duties
and people do love to blame the Government for just about anything; I'm
going to take everything I read about this tragedy with a large grain of
salt. I'll wait for the outcomes of the various investigations, I'm
sure there'll be enough blame to go around.

Cheers
Marty