It is interesting to know how other boaters are selecting equipment
and managing electrical power on cruising sailboats. Standard
production sailboats rarely have onboard DC power grids to support
additional electrical loads. Most extended cruisers and live aboard
boaters prefer to have conveniences like refrigeration microwave
ovens, computers and creature comfort items. There must be a limit to
how much daily electrical load that can be supported on a pleasure
size extended cruising sailboat, but what is this limit? I believe
that an average cruising boat's DC power consumption when at anchor
might be at least 50 amp-hrs per day. If equipped with refrigerator
add 10 amp-hours per cu. ft. of box per day. If additional 110 volt
appliances are powered from an inverter the total power grid will be
overstressed unless energy is generated from other than the a engine
alternator.

Here are some actual examples of cruising boats and how they managed
their DC power grid.
1. Twenty seven ft sailboat two people onboard with one cylinder
diesel crossed from England to Bahamas with no electrical system.
Navagation lights powered by Diesel fuel flame three gallons total use
of diesel in 27 days
2. Catalina 27 with two group 27 batteries 30 amp alternator on first
cruise after installing refrigeration unit batteries dead after two
days had to get a jump start from another boat. This problem was
repeated each time boat was used. Running engine several hours a day
did not solve this energy deficiency.
3. Thirty ft. sailboat two cylinder Yanmar engine with 60 amp
alternator and 4 gulf cart batteries spends 6 weeks to 3 months each
summer in Bahamas. Boat has standard basic electrical lights, VHF, and
Adler Barbour refrigeration. With the help of two 80 watt solar panels
mounted on top of Bimini engine only needs to be run every other day
to recharge batteries.
4. Forty four ft sailboat world cruiser on trip from Ft Lauderdale to
South Pacific. Boat equipped with both engine driven and 12 volt AB
refrigeration systems were connected to large holding plate in
refrigerator. I received a post card stating on 31 continuous days of
sailing the wind generator supplied all power needed to charge
batteries and operate refrigeration.
5. Local 36 ft sailboat with refrigeration tested in my book completed
circle trip to England with wind generator supplying all energy needed
on trip east bound, than lost generator overboard in English Channel
during storm.
6. One of the best truly live aboard boats I have worked with is a 60
ft plus two mast sailboat with very large refrigerator and separate
freezer. There is an engine driven refrigeration system freezing
seven holding plated when motoring. There are two air cooled 12 volt
refrigeration units maintaining box temperatures when boat is at
anchor which is most of the time. There are several energy sources to
support this boats DC power grid, two wind generators, solar panels,
prop shaft alternator and engine alternator.
7. My own 32 ft Watkins sailboat consumes around 70 to 100 amp-hr per
day when anchored out in summer tropical weather. I have a number of
110 volt fans running off an inverter and Yes I have Hybrid
refrigeration Engine driven refrigeration and 12 volt system freezing
three holding plates. I run the engine one hour per day to support my
energy needs consuming about 1/3 of a gallon of fuel. If you want to
see how my boat is equipped it is described on my web site at
http://kollmann-marine.com/Loreli.htm
8. If you are following Skip's Morgan 46 adventures on Flying Pig you
know his plan was to support all his electrical and refrigeration
needs including heating water with 12 volt energy. Skip removed the
engine driven refrigeration system replaced it with a 12 volt
Frigoboat unit. The large generator was removed providing room for a
battery bank. We are still not sure what his actual daily power needs
are but he seems to be managing his energy budget by trimming down the
load and running a small Honda generator when wind and solar power is
not enough. One good piece of information Skip provided if I
understand him correctly is the Hondo 2000 powering a 40 amp DC output
charger can rum 6 hours on 1/2 gallon of gas. I have a 3000 watt
generator that consumes 6 gallons per hour.

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:37:30 -0700 (PDT), Richard Kollmann
wrote:

It is interesting to know how other boaters are selecting equipment
and managing electrical power on cruising sailboats.

If you have a generator and/or heavy duty alternator, skys the limit.
On our trawler we power a small apartment style fridge from a sine
wave inverter that runs all the time. The inverter also powers
computers, some high efficiency lighting, and in cold weather an
electric blanket. The inverter has a dedicated 440 A-H house bank
which gets recharged either from the engine alternators or one of the
generators. Daily DC usage is probably around 400 amp-hours per day.
Generator time averages 3 to 4 hours per day at anchor, less when
underway. The generators provide power for the 110V holding plate
compressors on the big fridges and freezer, as well as cooking and
battery charging. Underway we can run one holding plate compressor at
a time from the inverter and engine alternators.

Richard Kollmann wrote:
understand him correctly is the Hondo 2000 powering a 40 amp DC output
charger can rum 6 hours on 1/2 gallon of gas. I have a 3000 watt
generator that consumes 6 gallons per hour.

Are you sure, 6 gal/hr? I have a 6Kw Yamaha that uses 6 gallons in
eight hours at 50% load.

Cheers
Marty

On Mar 21, 4:37 pm, Richard Kollmann
wrote:
It is interesting to know how other boaters are selecting equipment
and managing electrical power on cruising sailboats.

Yes it is interesting. One of the key subjects IMHO

..... the Hondo 2000 powering a 40 amp DC output
charger can rum 6 hours on 1/2 gallon of gas. I have a 3000 watt
generator that consumes 6 gallons per hour.

Your genset is doing something wrong then. We have a 3500 watt diesel
genset that burns about 0.6 gallons/hour when powering our 60 amp
charger plus a few incidental household services. Burning 6gph should
produce about 90 hp, far far more than it takes to pump out 3.5kw !

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Richard Kollmann wrote in news:f9707399-b61d-
:

One good piece of information Skip provided if I
understand him correctly is the Hondo 2000 powering a 40 amp DC output
charger can rum 6 hours on 1/2 gallon of gas. I have a 3000 watt
generator that consumes 6 gallons per hour.


On:
http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu2000i.htm

# Weight: 46.3 lbs. Dry
# tank size: 1.0 gallons
# Run time: 15.0/4.0 hrs. (1/4 load & Rated load)

15 hours on 1.1 gallons at 500 watts might be stretching reality a bit, but
it's not far off. I own EU1000i and EU3000is. The 1000 is uncanny. Its
carb looks like a model airplane carb, except for the float bowl of course.
The size is tiny! The venturi in it is really tiny....

40A at 14.2V = 568 watts plus some charger in efficiency so that would be
around 600 to 650 watts so Skip's observations are very close. The unit
will run in economode up to about 1100 watts before the engine starts to
throttle up for more magnets/second to supercharge the flywheel multiphase
alternator that drives the electronic power supply.

The EU3000is is a much better, longer running unit that only turns 1200 RPM
up to about 1800 watts, hardly breathes hard at a kilowatt, but it's NOT
TRANSPORTABLE by any stretch of the imagination. Its cabinetry is steel
with a 3.5 gallon steel tank on top, not plastic like the little ones.

Too bad someone doesn't make a nautical quiet cabinet to put the 3KW in
over the stern to reduce CO hazards. I run two 8000 Btu Korean A/C window
units off it all summer. 3 gallons with that load and my shop loads runs
about 2.5 eight hour workdays....making the truck bearable in the hot SC
sun.

Marty wrote:
Richard Kollmann wrote:
understand him correctly is the Hondo 2000 powering a 40 amp DC output
charger can rum 6 hours on 1/2 gallon of gas. I have a 3000 watt
generator that consumes 6 gallons per hour.

Are you sure, 6 gal/hr? I have a 6Kw Yamaha that uses 6 gallons in
eight hours at 50% load.

Gotta be a typo.

On Mar 21, 12:37*pm, Richard Kollmann
wrote:

It is interesting to know how other boaters are selecting equipment
and managing electrical power on cruising sailboats.

If you are following Skip's Morgan 46 adventures on Flying Pig you
know his plan was to support all his electrical and refrigeration
needs including.................

We are still not sure what his actual daily power needs
are but.....



After one of SKips mega watt audit posts i asked a simple question he
neglected to include in his "audit."
the qustion was, how many AH are you using daily?

Later her replyed with "...about 110 AH/day...."

I think your comment is most likely the most
accurate....................... "uh, IDK."

But my god, with all i read here i truely glad i dont have some
complex mega multiple FUBAR electetric systems stuffed on a small
sailboat jsut so I can blend ice for my wife after she blow drys her
hair........

Sombody said it simple. get two batteries and a BIG genset. End of
story and quit foolin around if your damn bent on living a surburban
life style on a boat. O, but the genset is tooo noise for my
guests..... So.

Bob

On 2008-03-21 16:37:30 -0400, Richard Kollmann
said:

Here are some actual examples of cruising boats and how they managed
their DC power grid.

Add to your list our 28' mostly-weekender with an icebox and mostly LED
lighting. Twin group 31s (soon to be upgraded) charged by a 12 watt
solar cell.

Total fuel usage in about 120 days away from the dock and a couple of
thousand miles: about 15 gallons, as the solar cell supplies almost all
our needs. We motor primarily to move, rarely to charge, and we're
rarely in a hurry.

But we consume mass quantities of ice, about a 10# block of ice every
couple of days during a Chesapeake summer. Cubes go faster, but their
primary purpose is to cool my Admiral's drinks.

Would love to have a fridge, Kollmann is definitely in the running, but
we can buy quite a few years' supply of ice for the upfront cost and
backside power requirements.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 04:00:32 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

But we consume mass quantities of ice, about a 10# block of ice every
couple of days during a Chesapeake summer. Cubes go faster, but their
primary purpose is to cool my Admiral's drinks.

Once you have a good fridge you will *never* go back to buying ice.

On 2008-03-22 00:17:17 -0400, Wayne.B said:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 04:00:32 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

But we consume mass quantities of ice, about a 10# block of ice every
couple of days during a Chesapeake summer. Cubes go faster, but their
primary purpose is to cool my Admiral's drinks.

Once you have a good fridge you will *never* go back to buying ice.

Understood.

That's most of the reason we haven't much explored the option. So far,
the power requirements have been sufficient to drop the subject. We
don't have a cell phone for even less reason.

When we're on Xan, we are connected only as we wish.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/