Larry wrote in
:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

It's not a scam. R-12 is a very distructive CFC and the rest of the
world signed on to the agreement not to sell/use it any more.
Clearly they're in violation of the agreement. The fact that the US
is doing something about the environment that's correct and proactive
is relatively rare. The cheapest solution isn't always the best
solution.



But, Geoff, the "agreement", itself is a scam, based on false science.
The excuse to cut us off from R-12 was that it was destroying the
ozone layer, which is simply false. The SUN and cosmic rays are
destroying the ozone layer, as they have done for millions and
millions of years.

So your argument is that CFCs such as R-12 don't interact with the ozone
layer and hasten its demise? I would say that there's a lot of well
established science that would argue with you.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

Geoff Schultz wrote in
:

So your argument is that CFCs such as R-12 don't interact with the ozone
layer and hasten its demise? I would say that there's a lot of well
established science that would argue with you.



America has gotten rid of R-12 for many many years. The ozone hole is
bigger.

I'm not saying that R-12 isn't a terrible chemical capable of destroying
ozone in the laboratory, where, of course at great expense, all these facts
fester. What I'm OBSERVING is that the effect of dragging America, at 10
to 15 times the price, into R-134a has been....well......ZERO, just like
most other programs designed to separate the American consumer from his
wealth by the corporate government bureaucrats.

The size of the ozone hole hasn't done what we were told it would do
BECAUSE the 6.2oz of R-12 in my 1973 Mercedes 220D's air conditioner caused
it. It didn't.

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:08:52 +0000, Larry wrote:

Geoff Schultz wrote in
6:

So your argument is that CFCs such as R-12 don't interact with the ozone
layer and hasten its demise? I would say that there's a lot of well
established science that would argue with you.



America has gotten rid of R-12 for many many years. The ozone hole is
bigger.

I'm not saying that R-12 isn't a terrible chemical capable of destroying
ozone in the laboratory, where, of course at great expense, all these facts
fester. What I'm OBSERVING is that the effect of dragging America, at 10
to 15 times the price, into R-134a has been....well......ZERO, just like
most other programs designed to separate the American consumer from his
wealth by the corporate government bureaucrats.

The size of the ozone hole hasn't done what we were told it would do
BECAUSE the 6.2oz of R-12 in my 1973 Mercedes 220D's air conditioner caused
it. It didn't.

Treat yourself:
http://press.princeton.edu/TOCs/c6767.html

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Geoff Schultz wrote in
:

So your argument is that CFCs such as R-12 don't interact with the ozone
layer and hasten its demise? I would say that there's a lot of well
established science that would argue with you.



America has gotten rid of R-12 for many many years. The ozone hole is
bigger.

I'm not saying that R-12 isn't a terrible chemical capable of destroying
ozone in the laboratory, where, of course at great expense, all these
facts
fester. What I'm OBSERVING is that the effect of dragging America, at 10
to 15 times the price, into R-134a has been....well......ZERO, just like
most other programs designed to separate the American consumer from his
wealth by the corporate government bureaucrats.

The size of the ozone hole hasn't done what we were told it would do
BECAUSE the 6.2oz of R-12 in my 1973 Mercedes 220D's air conditioner
caused
it. It didn't.



Actually, that's not the case... the ozone hole over Antartica was actually
quite a bit smaller in 2007 as compared to 2006, although it's not enough to
be considered a trend.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1003100537.htm


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Larry wrote in
:

Geoff Schultz wrote in
:

So your argument is that CFCs such as R-12 don't interact with the
ozone layer and hasten its demise? I would say that there's a lot of
well established science that would argue with you.



America has gotten rid of R-12 for many many years. The ozone hole is
bigger.

I'm not saying that R-12 isn't a terrible chemical capable of
destroying ozone in the laboratory, where, of course at great expense,
all these facts fester. What I'm OBSERVING is that the effect of
dragging America, at 10 to 15 times the price, into R-134a has
been....well......ZERO, just like most other programs designed to
separate the American consumer from his wealth by the corporate
government bureaucrats.

Why don't you convert you R-12 system to R-134A? Many systems have been
converted? The fact that you're aware of the price of R-12 indicates that
your system leaks. R-134A is as cheap, or cheaper, than R-12.

You may chose to run systems (such as autos) that utilize out-moded
technology, but you do so at a price, as when you go to repair those
systems, you can't obtain replacment parts (such as R-12) at a reasonable
price. This is simply part of your cost "savings" associated with using old
technology.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

Geoff Schultz wrote in
:

R-134A is as cheap, or cheaper, than R-12.


The day it was banned, it was 68c/16 oz can at any WalMart....

12 oz of R-134a is around $9 per tiny can.

And it's "cheaper"??

I don't think so.....

One car was converted, my '83 diesel 300TD wagon.

No fittings exist for the '73 220D, however, so it goes on freezing us to
death with the lower pressured forbidden fruit the rest of the world still
uses.

In article ,
Geoff Schultz wrote:

Why don't you convert you R-12 system to R-134A? Many systems have been
converted? The fact that you're aware of the price of R-12 indicates that
your system leaks. R-134A is as cheap, or cheaper, than R-12.

Yea, NOW at todays Prices for R12..... But it is many more times as
expensive than R12 was, when the "Greenies" forced it off the Market.....

On Mar 29, 9:49 am, You wrote:
In article ,
Geoff Schultz wrote:

Why don't you convert you R-12 system to R-134A? Many systems have been
converted? The fact that you're aware of the price of R-12 indicates that
your system leaks. R-134A is as cheap, or cheaper, than R-12.

Yea, NOW at todays Prices for R12..... But it is many more times as
expensive than R12 was, when the "Greenies" forced it off the Market.....



All this babble regarding the best refrigerant is Wilburly. The only
true and best refrigerant is ammonia. Any one use anything else on a
yacht under 65' is ignorant.
Bob