wrote in message
...
On Mar 6, 4:01 am, ray lunder wrote:
Anyone owned a steel hulled sailboat in the 40 foot range and have
some advice on what to look for when buying one? Thanks as always.

I own a steel trawler and there is much to be learned in dealing with
metal boats. The boats of today should have been white blasted
immediately followed by multiple coats of epoxy primer before any
finish coatings and all interior areas have at least 2-3 inches of
high density foam sprayed in before building interiors. Exterior rust
is actually less important than interior rust. Many steel vessels rot
from the inside out. Then there's electrical isolation
techniques.....a whole new topic.

Overall, maintenance is somewhat higher (your labor), but not a bad
trade off in terms of vessel strength. If crossing the pond and you
happen to bang into a semi-submerged cargo container, you may get a
dent in the steel. With fiberglass, you're boat is likely to take the
Davey Jones express to the bottom.

Capt. John
http://www.blueseas.com

Why not go all the way and zinc spray before the epoxy is put on?

On 2008-03-09 11:21:29 -0400, "Edgar" said:

Why not go all the way and zinc spray before the epoxy is put on?

The experience on the Tanzer list's iron keels has been that POR-15 is
far superior when properly applied. Zinc spray sounds like a great
idea, but it's about the least of the solutions that work -- many
coatings don't.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

wrote in message
...
On Mar 6, 4:01 am, ray lunder wrote:
Anyone owned a steel hulled sailboat in the 40 foot range and have
some advice on what to look for when buying one? Thanks as always.

I own a steel trawler and there is much to be learned in dealing with
metal boats. The boats of today should have been white blasted
immediately followed by multiple coats of epoxy primer before any
finish coatings and all interior areas have at least 2-3 inches of
high density foam sprayed in before building interiors. Exterior rust
is actually less important than interior rust. Many steel vessels rot
from the inside out. Then there's electrical isolation
techniques.....a whole new topic.

Overall, maintenance is somewhat higher (your labor), but not a bad
trade off in terms of vessel strength. If crossing the pond and you
happen to bang into a semi-submerged cargo container, you may get a
dent in the steel. With fiberglass, you're boat is likely to take the
Davey Jones express to the bottom.

Capt. John
http://www.blueseas.com

Steve Lusardi wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mar 6, 4:01 am, ray lunder wrote:
Anyone owned a steel hulled sailboat in the 40 foot range and have
some advice on what to look for when buying one? Thanks as always.
I own a steel trawler and there is much to be learned in dealing with
metal boats. The boats of today should have been white blasted
immediately followed by multiple coats of epoxy primer before any
finish coatings and all interior areas have at least 2-3 inches of
high density foam sprayed in before building interiors. Exterior rust
is actually less important than interior rust. Many steel vessels rot
from the inside out. Then there's electrical isolation
techniques.....a whole new topic.

Overall, maintenance is somewhat higher (your labor), but not a bad
trade off in terms of vessel strength. If crossing the pond and you
happen to bang into a semi-submerged cargo container, you may get a
dent in the steel. With fiberglass, you're boat is likely to take the
Davey Jones express to the bottom.

Capt. John
http://www.blueseas.com





Oh no!!!
Not a top poster, not a bottom poster! It's the dreaded NO poster!
Gordon

John,
You are correct about hull strength. The standing rig on my sloop came from
a 70ft aluminum sloop whose owner decided to convert from a masthead rig to
a fractional rig. The name of the boat was the "Dance II" out of Southampton
in the UK. When the new rig was fitted, the owner set out for Gibraltar for
some chartering. At 0200 in the morning running at 8 knots 200 miles off the
coast of Portugal, the vessel struck a partially submerged shipping
container that holed the aluminum hull. The Dance II was lost, but
fortunately without loss of life. Had the hull been made from steel, there
would have been a very good chance the boat would have survived that
collision.

Roger,
Aluminum is good, but corrosion is actually a much bigger problem than with
steel. Even marine grade 5000 series aluminum is very reactive in salt
water, both electrically and chemically. Addionally, it is very difficult to
get a good paint scheme to adhere properly with aluminum. This is especially
true now that Zinc Chromate primer has been banned almost everywhere.
However, the construction techniques available for both steel and aluminum
support watertight bulkheads, where the existence of those are almost
impossible with low density materials and had they been present in Dance II,
the loss of the vessel would have most likely been prevented.
Steve

wrote in message
...
On Mar 6, 4:01 am, ray lunder wrote:
Anyone owned a steel hulled sailboat in the 40 foot range and have
some advice on what to look for when buying one? Thanks as always.

I own a steel trawler and there is much to be learned in dealing with
metal boats. The boats of today should have been white blasted
immediately followed by multiple coats of epoxy primer before any
finish coatings and all interior areas have at least 2-3 inches of
high density foam sprayed in before building interiors. Exterior rust
is actually less important than interior rust. Many steel vessels rot
from the inside out. Then there's electrical isolation
techniques.....a whole new topic.

Overall, maintenance is somewhat higher (your labor), but not a bad
trade off in terms of vessel strength. If crossing the pond and you
happen to bang into a semi-submerged cargo container, you may get a
dent in the steel. With fiberglass, you're boat is likely to take the
Davey Jones express to the bottom.

Capt. John
http://www.blueseas.com

Capt. John
Overall, maintenance is somewhat higher (your labor), but not a bad
trade off in terms of vessel strength. If crossing the pond and you
happen to bang into a semi-submerged cargo container, you may get a
dent in the steel. With fiberglass, you're boat is likely to take the
Davey Jones express to the bottom.


I wonder if there isn't a practical way to make the underwater section
of the bow/keel stronger on an existing fiberglass boat stronger/more
impact resistant. Surely someone has figured this out, no?

Red

On 2008-03-09 15:54:59 -0400, Red said:

I wonder if there isn't a practical way to make the underwater section
of the bow/keel stronger on an existing fiberglass boat stronger/more
impact resistant. Surely someone has figured this out, no?

Our designer made the first 5-7' of our 28' boat an isolated chamber.
We, or an errant hole in the bow, could fill that section up without
much compromising our sailing ability as it's disconnected from the
rest of the boat, buoyancy-wise.

As I review the boat's layup, we could take holes a bit further back
with little problem, though absolute safety would require our being
pretty much upright.

I should review my numbers in view of what I've learned since, but at
one time I calculated that if we got a BIG hole in the middle of the
boat, we'd likely not sink due to the massive isolated chambers in our
bow and stern. We might not float high, but we'd float.

In other words, I believe this problem has been figured out, but not by
assuming that we could make the holes impossible, which I feel highly
improbable, but by ensuring that the boat was properly buoyed when
holed.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Jere Lull wrote:

In other words, I believe this problem has been figured out, but not by
assuming that we could make the holes impossible, which I feel highly
improbable, but by ensuring that the boat was properly buoyed when holed.


That's because your boat was designed for Canadian sailing, so some
ice-breaking ability was a requisite.

Cheers
Marty

wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:54:59 -0500, Red wrote:

Capt. John
Overall, maintenance is somewhat higher (your labor), but not a bad
trade off in terms of vessel strength. If crossing the pond and you
happen to bang into a semi-submerged cargo container, you may get a
dent in the steel. With fiberglass, you're boat is likely to take the
Davey Jones express to the bottom.

I wonder if there isn't a practical way to make the underwater section
of the bow/keel stronger on an existing fiberglass boat stronger/more
impact resistant. Surely someone has figured this out, no?

Red

Yes. It's often accomplished by the addition of a layer or two of kevlar cloth
during layup.



I have an anchor locker forward that drains thru limbers to the bilge.
To me, the best idea would to be to plug the limber and install a low
platform for the chain. Then add drains to exit low to the waterline.
Put clamshells over the drains situated to keep water out when plunging.
Now you have a backup watertight bulkhead which would hopefully be
further back than any damage.
Just a thought.
Gordon

I wonder if there isn't a practical way to make the underwater section
of the bow/keel stronger on an existing fiberglass boat stronger/more
impact resistant. Surely someone has figured this out, no?

Red

Salty:
Yes. It's often accomplished by the addition of a layer or two of
kevlar cloth during layup.

As I understad it, Kevlar is not only difficult to get a good bond with,
its not all that great for collision protection as it is for puncture
protection.

Besides, your answer doesn't address what I was asking - something that
can be applied on an older existing hull. I believe Kevlar would not
bond well enough on old polyester to make this practical anyway. Is this
correct?

red