On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 06:16:23 -0500, wrote:

Two knots of wind is enough to keep my boat moving.

Interesting. Have any pictures ?

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 06:16:23 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:43:01 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:05:43 -0500, wrote:

Keep yapping, stinkpotter!

Dawg, if you are cruising Long Island Sound in the summer, then you
are under power almost as much as I am. But your diesel smells
better?

My diesel? I don't got no steenkin diesel. And I know that as a powerboater, you
think sailboats can't sail when there is no wind. The problem with that is
simply that you are not aware of the wind at all when it is light. There almost
always at least SOME wind. Two knots of wind is enough to keep my boat moving. I
don;t have to be anywhere on a schedule. I'm out having a wonderful time. I also
sail in weather that would keep you in port. Taking advantage of tides and
currents is also something you are unaware of.

Keep yapping, stinkpotter!

Knew a guy used to talk like you.

He left Phi Phi Island, in Phang Nga Bay, Thailand, bound for
Langkawi, Malaysia, about 100 miles away with nothing on the way but
uninhabited islands. About 5 miles out of Phi Phi the wind died.
Started his engine and the sail drive crapped itself - engine ran good
but the prop doesn't turn.Almost two weeks later he arrived off
Langkawi and got a tow into a marina that had a travel lift. Told me
his good days were 10 miles mostly drifting with the tide and
anchoring when the tide turned; sailed a couple of hours every once in
a while. Ran out of food and was eating saltine crackers the last day,
or so.

He spent $3,000 fixing the sail drive before he came back :-(




Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

You wrote:
... point-to-point racing, whether in the ocean or in sheltered
waters, is essentially the same as cruising ...
And then you wrote:
Did I say that racing is the same as passagemaking? ...

So, yeah, I thought you were saying the cruising is the same as point-
to-point racing.

Hmm... looking back, I can see where you got that impression
How about this- the skills that are rewarded in racing have a pretty
high correlation to the skills which make cruising safer and less
worrisome... as mentioned earlier, I am specifically *not* talking
about the skill of flogging a boat around bouys as quickly as possible
(which doesn't sound fun to non-racers, and they seem to have no idea
what is involved), but rather the skills which go into enabling the
sailor to do so in the first place.... preparation, prioritizing, boat-
handling, knowledge & observation of weather & wind & tide patterns,
the ability to know where the boat is going to fetch (and in what time
frame) without having to concentrate, etc etc. The thing that most
racers concentrate on most of the time... sail set & trim... is much
less important in cruising. It sounds like that was your main focus.



Also, since we obviously aren't talking about the same kind of
cruising, it'd be helpful to me to know what kind of cruising you're
talking about. I think an example or two of the kind of cruises
you've taken would help me understand where you're coming from on
this.


Mostly coastal sailing, mostly on the US East Coast although I've
sailed a lot of other places, and have done enough passagemaking to
know what it's like. Most recently my wife and I completed a Great
Loop cruise around the eastern US & Canada, and even on a tugboat the
skills I'm talking about contribute greatly to a smooth & safe cruise.

It seems likely to me that you either haven't learned the same skills
that I did from racing, or that you learned them without knowing that
you know them, and thus never learned to consciously fit them into the
big picture.
I'd be interested to know what kind of boats you raced, and what
position in the crew you held. For my own part, I've done a little of
everything but generally prefer to drive.

DSK

On Mar 4, 7:28 am, wrote:
....
How about this- the skills that are rewarded in racing have a pretty
high correlation to the skills which make cruising safer and less
worrisome...

If you were to add "while underway" somewhere in there I'd be
content.

Mostly coastal sailing, mostly on the US East Coast although I've
sailed a lot of other places, and have done enough passagemaking to
know what it's like. Most recently my wife and I completed a Great
Loop cruise around the eastern US & Canada, and even on a tugboat the
skills I'm talking about contribute greatly to a smooth & safe cruise.

Neat. I think I use my racing skills most when we are trying to get
someplace say 50-70 miles away in the daylight (generally short
tropical days) and less on longer passages. At anchor not at all.
I'm guessing that US East Coast sailing involves a larger percent of
the day hopping stuff and less of the "how many weeks have we been out
here?" stuff. I wouldn't be surprised to find that played a big part
in our philosophical differences. I also have this feeling that I'm
missing some important part of your thesis. Sorry about that.

I'd be interested to know what kind of boats you raced, and what
position in the crew you held. For my own part, I've done a little of
everything but generally prefer to drive.

Yes, I can play most positions competently, too. I grew up racing the
family boats which were one designs and the usual youth stuff. I
moved on to fairly serious 470 and J-24 racing and also crewed on the
big boats. I've done some name brand ocean races and lots of PHRF
stuff. I have a "good" collection of horrible silver-plate, tatty
flags and miscellaneous trophy things...

-- Tom.

On Mar 4, 2:19 pm,
On Mar 4, 7:28 am, wrote:
...

How about this- the skills that are rewarded in racing have a pretty
high correlation to the skills which make cruising safer and less
worrisome...

" wrote:
If you were to add "while underway" somewhere in there I'd be
content.


At anchor you should be aware of windshifts & gusts, and especially
aware of upcoming changes in weather, nyet? How about tidal
currents.... the judging of which is definitely a useful racing skill
unless the particular race is on a lake
I always use a transit to judge position on starting line, and it's
the quickest & most accurate way to tell if the anchor is dragging.
Etc etc etc.


Mostly coastal sailing, mostly on the US East Coast although I've
sailed a lot of other places, and have done enough passagemaking to
know what it's like. Most recently my wife and I completed a Great
Loop cruise around the eastern US & Canada, and even on a tugboat the
skills I'm talking about contribute greatly to a smooth & safe cruise.

Neat. I think I use my racing skills most when we are trying to get
someplace say 50-70 miles away in the daylight (generally short
tropical days) and less on longer passages. At anchor not at all.

Oh, I bet you use them more than you think (see above).
The difference is, in a race there is quick and sure feedback on how
accurate your judgements are, strong motivation, and teachers at the
ready. In cruising, it is difficult to learn for many reasons and
there is sort of a pass/fail threshold with no real reward other than
continued peace & relaxation.

I think this is one reason why sailing is a less popular sport in the
US, it takes too much "paying attention." People would rather play
video games.



I'm guessing that US East Coast sailing involves a larger percent of
the day hopping stuff and less of the "how many weeks have we been out
here?" stuff. I wouldn't be surprised to find that played a big part
in our philosophical differences. I also have this feeling that I'm
missing some important part of your thesis. Sorry about that.


Sorry to have not explained things better sooner. Plus I don't have
much internet time these days and have made more errors than usual...
due to hurrying, maybe

I'd be interested to know what kind of boats you raced, and what
position in the crew you held. For my own part, I've done a little of
everything but generally prefer to drive.

Yes, I can play most positions competently, too. I grew up racing the
family boats which were one designs and the usual youth stuff. I
moved on to fairly serious 470 and J-24 racing and also crewed on the
big boats. I've done some name brand ocean races and lots of PHRF
stuff. I have a "good" collection of horrible silver-plate, tatty
flags and miscellaneous trophy things...


Sounds like a lot of fun. I raced 470s a long time ago, got in some
very fun races with some of the big names... I noticed Dave Ullman is
kicking butt in Melges 24s these days.

DSK

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:40:53 -0500, wrote:

Pictures of 2 knots of wind?

I'd be willing to make a small wager that I have spent more time
sailing up and down LIS looking for wind than you have but it would be
a waste of time and breath on my part.

What I was really interested in knowing was what kind of boat you had
that sailed so well in 2 kts of breeze.

On Mar 1, 12:00*pm, " wrote:
On Mar 1, 5:43 am, wrote:

What do you "unlearn"?

Well, attitude is certainly an issue.
-- Tom.

Also unning the engine is not a sin.

On 2008-03-04 09:06:44 -0500, Wayne.B said:

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 06:16:23 -0500, wrote:

Two knots of wind is enough to keep my boat moving.

Interesting. Have any pictures ?

Who take pictures at such times? We're too busy keeping the boat
moving, reading the tails, the ripples (if any) and anything else that
could help.

And the pics wouldn't look "sexy" if the boat were sitting flat, anyway.

(Now the *other* pics on days like that..... ;-)

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:08:57 -0500, wrote:

I've been sailing in the LIS since about 1959. How much did I win?

You got me, I was still sailing Lake Ontario in '59. How long is that
in dog years ?

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 06:51:54 -0500, wrote:

I also probably spend less time then you looking for wind, as I know where to
look.

Not likely since my trawler goes pretty well in no wind at all. I'm
still interested in knowing what kind of sailboat you have that goes
well in 2 kts.