Larry wrote:
"Dennis Pogson" wrote in
news:TXPxj.2486 :

just curious to know if such
training and examination facilities exist in the US

Not in Charleston. They make you install a manual bilge pump if you
don't have one, but noone inspects it to see if it's there.

The qualifications to race here are to have a boat that has at least
one sail that's not ripped to shreds and some kind of tiller so you
can turn it 'round towards the start line without running over the
race committee's bouys.

When it comes to racing, I think most of us were self-taught!

I cannot recall my first race as an owner/skipper, it's too long ago, but I
do remember being scared ****less by the size of the fleet, and trying to
keep well out of the way of the 3 maxis which dominated the class 1 fleet in
those days.

I have always held that you learn more in an hour's racing than you do in a
season's cruising. Perhaps that is the way forward? No lengthy tuition
courses, just stick 'em on a racing machine and give 'em something to do,
like make the sandwiches and pass up the beer!

Dennis.

"Dennis Pogson" wrote in
:

I have always held that you learn more in an hour's racing than you do
in a season's cruising.

I think that would depend a lot on how big the SEAS are when you're
cruising. You learn a lot as the waves get bigger than you are...fast!

On Feb 29, 7:13 am, "Dennis Pogson"
wrote:
... I have always held that you learn more in an hour's racing than you do in a
season's cruising. ...

But, what you learn isn't all that helpful in cruising...

I grew up racing on boats. My folks stowed me aboard our old IOD
while racing within weeks of my birth (or so I'm told). I love to
race and I cherish the time I've spend racing. But, when I took up
full time cruising I came to realize that while sail trim and boat
handling are useful they aren't critical and they are only a tiny part
of what a competent cruiser needs to know. Actually, unlearning to
race has proven one of the biggest challenges to cruising for me.

-- Tom.

wrote in message
...
On Feb 29, 7:13 am, "Dennis Pogson"
wrote:
... I have always held that you learn more in an hour's racing than you
do in a
season's cruising. ...

But, what you learn isn't all that helpful in cruising...

I grew up racing on boats. My folks stowed me aboard our old IOD
while racing within weeks of my birth (or so I'm told). I love to
race and I cherish the time I've spend racing. But, when I took up
full time cruising I came to realize that while sail trim and boat
handling are useful they aren't critical and they are only a tiny part
of what a competent cruiser needs to know. Actually, unlearning to
race has proven one of the biggest challenges to cruising for me.

-- Tom.

Sure, I wasn't implying that full-time cruisers don't no how to sail. There
are lots of aspects to cruising that you don't learn while racing. I think
back to when I started racing and I guess it was being amongst very
experienced older guys that taught me most of the tricks, not just the
racing scene per se.

Cruising sailors probably don't get the opportunity to enjoy such an intense
learning experience, but acquire knowledge over a longer period of time.

Fact is, we are all still learning, even at 76! I don't remember going for a
sail when I didn't pick up at least one new idea! Long may it continue.


Dennis.

On Mar 1, 4:36 am,
tsmw...@mail wrote in message
......... I love to
race and I cherish the time I've spend racing. But, when I took up
full time cruising I came to realize that while sail trim and boat
handling are useful they aren't critical and they are only a tiny part
of what a competent cruiser needs to know. Actually, unlearning to
race has proven one of the biggest challenges to cruising for me.


What do you "unlearn"?
For some racing sailors, it's difficult to relax while cruising but my
observations seem to indicate that it's a personality issue, those
individuals find it difficult to relax *any*where.

"Dennis Pogson" wrote:
Sure, I wasn't implying that full-time cruisers don't no how to sail.

I will not only imply it, I will say it outright! Most "cruising-only"
sailors don't know how to sail as well as most racing sailors; just
watch the two sets of skippers dock their boats; watch them sail in
challenging weather; watch them observe conditions/weather around them
and plan their response & actions.

There are some skills in cruising that are not needed in racing, but
anyone who thinks racing doesn't develop a full set of seamanship
skills has simply not payed attention.

I could go further but this is enough inflammatory material for now.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

They get all excited, too, if you steer right towards the yacht club dock with the spinnaker haulin ass..

I was on a 40'er that did that once. Skipper wanted to show off and
the wind was exactly right
to shoot up the channel about 10 feet from the dock into the mooring
area. Fun, kinda stupid
but what's a 40' racing dinghy for if not to goof around on....

Samuel Murphy wrote in news:bfbdfd6b-859c-4ba8-
:

Fun, kinda stupid


The trouble with "racing", a nebulous term on the boats I get to sail on,
in a heavy cruiser like an Amel Sharki 41 full of booze, tools, enough
parts to rebuild the diesel 50 miles offshore except for the engine lathe,
sitting low in the water from the massive weight....our trouble is having
enough wind to make it over the starting line and past the committee boat.

If we get her to "start", even though we don't finish until the race
committee is standing with their stuff all packed up waiting to go to the
party.....with our big handicap....we can place pretty good, even if we
don't arrive back at the starting line until we're out of beer!

We're pretty easy to spot on a calm day (race days in Charleston are
ALWAYS, INVARIABLY the calmest days of the month). We're the guys with
every rag the masts will support fully extended with more guys at the rail
holding up sheets from the aft cabin trying to extend the trailing edge of
the biggest genoa another 6 feet without blocking the mizzen staysail very
much...

The red satin sheets off the captain's playroom bed seem especially
effective, probably from the other crews laughing so hard they are the ones
filling it!

But, you let the race be about some charity for sick kids and you'll see us
at or near the top of the leaderboard in funds collected, the more
important part of that race....(c;

We may not be fast, but NOONE has more fun trying....

"Samuel Murphy" wrote in message
...

They get all excited, too, if you steer right towards the yacht club dock
with the spinnaker haulin ass..

I was on a 40'er that did that once. Skipper wanted to show off and
the wind was exactly right
to shoot up the channel about 10 feet from the dock into the mooring
area. Fun, kinda stupid
but what's a 40' racing dinghy for if not to goof around on....
\

We did that on a 28' viking a few years ago. We were finishing a race and
as we quickly approached the dock flying the spinnaker, discovered that I
had wrapped the sheet around the winch once to many times.
No way could we loosen it quickly to spill the air so the helmsman whipped
out a Spyderco knife and made short work of the line.
I learned my lesson that day.

Don White wrote:
"Samuel Murphy" wrote in message
...

They get all excited, too, if you steer right towards the yacht
club dock with the spinnaker haulin ass..

I was on a 40'er that did that once. Skipper wanted to show off and
the wind was exactly right
to shoot up the channel about 10 feet from the dock into the mooring
area. Fun, kinda stupid
but what's a 40' racing dinghy for if not to goof around on....
\

We did that on a 28' viking a few years ago. We were finishing a
race and as we quickly approached the dock flying the spinnaker,
discovered that I had wrapped the sheet around the winch once to many
times.
No way could we loosen it quickly to spill the air so the helmsman
whipped out a Spyderco knife and made short work of the line.
I learned my lesson that day.

Rolling hitches get rid of riding turns! That's racing for you! You lives
and you learns!

No series of 'official' or 'required' for most recreational boaters in
the US. However, many states are now requiring a basic boaters
competency certified. This is really just the basic and talks to
needed 'safety' equipment, what those red and green things are in the
water as well as the dangers of drinking and driving.

These basic tests can be taken online or through a several agencies;
both private and public, e.g. USCG, USPS.

Beyond that, I know of three series of training. USCG has a series of
training that covers several topic. The USPS was formed many years
ago on the premise of training, and offers a series of courses
(perhaps 20 or so) up through off shore navigation.

Both of these are mostly 'book learning', but do give good and
traditional knowledge.

US Sailing also offers an extensive series of course, and they tend to
include more on-the-water experience. Some say that US Sailing tends
to be shorter on book learning, but the on the water is a key focus of
theirs.

Further, USPS has stepped forward to develop, in conjunction with US
Sailing, a series of Boat Operators Certificates. These go beyond the
book-learning to include on the water skills, and the higher version
of these will target satisfying UN Resolution 40, "International
Certificate for the Operation of Pleasure Craft". At this point, I am
not aware of an intention to have any of these levels become
'requirements'. However, the basic operators competency certificates
now in many states was driven by NASBLA; given that they have
accomplished this 1st step, it would not surprise me that they are
looking to drive additional step.

-al-



On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:08:03 GMT, "Dennis Pogson"
wrote:

Please excuse my ignorance in posing this question. As a UK sailor of many
years experience in racing and cruising yachts, I am curious to know, since
the subject rarely turns up, whether our US cousins have a similar series of
qualifications to those administered in the UK by the Royal Yachting
Association (Yachmaster, at various levels).

I am not extolling the virtues of such "official"qualifications, indeed many
UK sailors think they are less than useful, just curious to know if such
training and examination facilities exist in the US, as the subject never
seems to be discussed in this NG.

Dennis.