On Feb 21, 6:46*pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

: Whered ya learn dat stuff????
: Rhetor Bob

University of Missouri School of Journalism circa 1969. *One chooses, then
one does.

Wilbur Hubbard

Your accademic preperation is obvious! Its a difficult task to
integrate persuasive patterns in a casual conversation. Good on for
you !!

Bob

I started a thread in alt sailing asa but thought it might get a more
measured response here.

So this is my question.

Joe and his Red Cloud v. Skip and his Pig

Which do you think is or will make the BEST captain???
Bob

"Bob" wrote in message
...


I started a thread in alt sailing asa but thought it might get a more
measured response here.

So this is my question.

Joe and his Red Cloud v. Skip and his Pig

Which do you think is or will make the BEST captain???
Bob


There's no way to compare the two... both are/were out there doing it. Both
learn from their mistakes and are honest about their experiences. I am
limited to the SF bay and environs most of the time, due to work. I envy
them both.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message
...


I started a thread in alt sailing asa but thought it might get a more
measured response here.

So this is my question.

Joe and his Red Cloud v. Skip and his Pig

Which do you think is or will make the BEST captain???
Bob



There's no way to compare the two... both are/were out there doing it. Both
learn from their mistakes and are honest about their experiences. I am
limited to the SF bay and environs most of the time, due to work. I envy
them both.



I'll agree with all of that.

I admire both and am grateful that they are willing to talk about these
things in public.

Guts.

On 2008-02-22 12:28:24 -0500, Bob said:

So this is my question.

Joe and his Red Cloud v. Skip and his Pig

Which do you think is or will make the BEST captain???

Oh, GAWD, they are so different.

But they are out there and doing it. They're better captains than
many/most on this list.

And I include myself in "many/most", since Pat and I are primarily
weekend warriors.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Jere Lull wrote:
But they are out there and doing it. They're better captains than
many/most on this list.


What I don't understand is why a small number of posters in this NG
feel a need to fling mud at Joe.

DSK

On 2008-02-22 22:52:51 -0500, said:

Jere Lull wrote:
But they are out there and doing it. They're better captains than
many/most on this list.
(including me)

What I don't understand is why a small number of posters in this NG
feel a need to fling mud at Joe.

Sad to say: Jealousy.

I'm jealous as well, primarily because he had the balls to strike out
on such an adventure. I admit that I'm not as willing to roll the dice.

That he happened to be carrying cargo was not really significant. I
guarantee that his regrets are more centered upon the lost boat than
the lost cargo (and profit).

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Feb 22, 10:52 pm, wrote:
Jere Lull wrote:
But they are out there and doing it. They're better captains than
many/most on this list.

What I don't understand is why a small number of posters in this NG
feel a need to fling mud at Joe.

DSK

Hi, Doug, and group,

I literally laughed out loud at that. Joe's a latecomer. I'm
considering losing weight, encasing the mud I've accumulated over the
years in epoxy, wriggling out of the resultant shell, and putting it
overboard for a mooring :{))

**** (well, mud, if you prefer), folks were taking potshots at me from
the time we even started exploring the concept of a boat, as Jere and
Rosalie will recall, nearly, or over, I'm not positive which, 10 years
ago. That's partly where the boat name came from - at every stage, it
was, "Yeah, right, you'll never (insert define, find, buy, refit,
sail, cruise, repair, passagemake) any boat!" :{)) It was bad enough
that I had the temerity, in one of my more depressed moments, having
just fulfilled one of those requirements, to cut and paste one of the
prior feces-laden posts and gave a raspberry :{)) Today, I usually
don't bother pointing out the obvious, other than to pull Wilbur's
chain occasionally.

As I used to say in another group, long ago, y'all have fun; I'm
accustomed to the flames and have a crispy crust, so don't notice more
of them. Once in a while, I invite my fellow roastees up on the
barbie with me :{))

Today, it's going to be another hot one in the Miami area, so I'll
dive my hull after we get the holding tank emptied, in prep for our
passage to Fernandina Beach, where we'll put the boat on the ground
for a while. The hot will allow me to come up cold but feel good in
the sun...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power
to make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

On Feb 23, 4:30*am, Skip Gundlach wrote:


Hi Skip,

My vote is that you are the better captain simply because you seem to
be a person who ****s up.... evaluates... and moves on. But most
important acknoldges the fact you dont know it all and seeks
information.

In joes case he belives himself an"experinced captain" and becomes
defensive when questioned. On the other hand you do not. While you
lack experince that is easy to aqire. In joes case he has expience but
can not seek alterniatives... hes a one act pony. You take me as a
"life long learner" a prerequist for future sucess.

Keep on taking these ICW voyages and when you can do that blind folded
with no crew.... then it youll be ready for step two... coast wise
voyages... steps three and four are best consider much later.
Bob

On Feb 24, 8:05 am, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:47:58 -0800 (PST), Bob wrote:
On Feb 23, 4:30 am, Skip Gundlach wrote:

Getting a twofer here, thanks to SD's top posting saving me the effort
of combining them:
'



Skip has a habit of ignoring advice and repeating mistakes. He recently
mentioned that once again, he left Lydia on watch and she became distracted and
forgot her duties. The first time she did that, they wrecked the boat. This time
she was so busy chatting she forgot to keep track of where she was and overshot
her destination by quite a bit. Fortunately this time, there were no rocks
involved. I wonder how many other times she has "wandered" while left on watch.
She may be a brilliant and capable person in other regards, but it does not seem
she has the neccessary focus needed to stand a watch on a sailboat by herself.
How many times must she prove this for Skip to "get it" and do whatever he has
to do to address the problem?

And, you, apparently, have a habit of seeking out any potential
negative. If you've read the entire series, you see - and yet choose
to impute that dereliction of duty reigned - that the assembled were
not asleep at the wheel, but actively engaged in enjoying a marvelous
sail, and electing to go beyond the prior shift's (which would include
me) unilateral decision for a turning point. If I'd been awake and at
the helm at the time, I too might have been reluctant to give up on
the sailing quite so quickly. NOAA has let us down so often that I
tend to grab whatever opportunities present themselves, such as our
intentional overshoot of the Miami channel on the way back in from
Rodriguez, just as a case in point.


In joes case he belives himself an"experinced captain" and becomes
defensive when questioned. On the other hand you do not. While you
lack experince that is easy to aqire. In joes case he has expience but
can not seek alterniatives... hes a one act pony. You take me as a
"life long learner" a prerequist for future sucess.

Keep on taking these ICW voyages and when you can do that blind folded
with no crew.... then it youll be ready for step two... coast wise
voyages... steps three and four are best consider much later.
Bob

Eek! Our initial leg, ~700 miles, back in July, and the various multi-
hundred mile "coastwise voyages" legs later, and our upcoming 300 mile
leg offshore/coastal, just before a some thousand-plus (FL-Maine) leg
when we set out, obviously are ill-advised, as I am reluctant to go
anywhere blindfolded, being so dependent on eyeball V1.0 and chart
Vx.? along with, in weather suited to it, double computer backups :{))
- so I'll never get the requisite experience to proceed :{))

Meanwhile, as above to all those so inclined, I'm diving again today
and expect the mud and slime will brush right off. Oh. Yes, the
hull, too :{)) - except for the bottom of the keel, already polished
from our bumping a few times on the way back from our holding tank
pumping and fuel tank filling yesterday as the tide was nearly out.

L8R

Love from Skip the ****up and Lydia the inattentive :{))

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power
to make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)