I agree 100%.
In any country under embargo, the powerful have what they need and want and
the poor are caused to suffer by the embargo, so who is the target?
By the way, I'm an American Military Veteran and ex-Republican who has alot
of trouble walking thanks to a bomb outside Baghdad.
Merlin.
"rhys" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:43:40 GMT, WaIIy
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:33:52 -0500, Glenn Ashmore
wrote:

This restriction on the rest of the citizens of the US is strictly to
keep the Miami Cubans voting Republican. Last year when the Dubya
tightened the restrictions on the rest of us he relaxed the rules on the
Miami Cubans.

Glenn, you are usually a reasonable poster. Please don't pull a Krause
and F-Up this group too.

Can't comment much about Cuba other than as a Canadian I can tan my
white arse semi-cheaply on their beaches and enrich their crappy
economy with my three-quarter dollars. G Cuba's popular as a
destination with Canadians, but no more so than half a dozen
non-Communist Dictatorship beauty spots of the Carribean.

But this...obsession...with Cuba on the part of American governments
and Miami grandkids of Batista cronies is looking a little crazy at
this stage. U.S. governments regularly play footsie with bigger
*******s than Castro (who I am under no illusions about, by the way),
and nobody blinks.

The frankly stupid results is that U.S. boaters can't cruise some of
the nicest spots on earth and hang with the generally friendly and
arguably pretty uncorrupted Cuban people...who understand a lot more
about their farcical situation and the real nature of the Castro
regime than most outsiders suspect.

Given the choice between a home-boy dictator, literacy and rations and
foreign gangsters, ignorance and starvation, they keep going for
Castro. What fools they must be, eh?

Anyway, maybe someday Americans will be able to cut through all the BS
on the topic, visit Cuba and decide for themselves.
R.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:22:25 GMT, "MMC" wrote:

I agree 100%.
In any country under embargo, the powerful have what they need and want and
the poor are caused to suffer by the embargo, so who is the target?

The Miami Cuban establishment and people who don't think too deeply
about politics and money, I assume.

By the way, I'm an American Military Veteran and ex-Republican who has alot
of trouble walking thanks to a bomb outside Baghdad.

Sorry to hear that and I hope it doesn't permanently affect your
boating.

I "speak" to a lot of Americans thanks to newsgroups, lists, etc., and
when the conversation strays of-topic into politics, I am hearing from
a lot of "ex-Republicans". We have the same problem in Canada in that
our Conservatives aren't conservative, our Liberals aren't liberal,
and our socialists are beginning to look reasonable only because the
other two parties give money to their pals so heavily that they can't
HELP but be as fiscally responsible as conservatives/Republicans are
SUPPOSED to be. Many "conservatives" today seem to up spending and
slash taxes. Well, a five-year-old can figure out how long that can go
on before it all turns to ****, can't he?

I want to pay enough taxes to fund education, health, safety and
environmental standards. I want my government to resist the urge to
tell me how I can live, what I can do that doesnt' harm others, and to
bribe their pals with patronage appointments and cushy contracts. I
don't mind paying higher taxes if I can see the results in health
care, education and air that's clean(er) and cities that aren't
crumbling. That is not the case, lately.

Obviously, I'm a hopeless idealist, which is why I'm better off
cruising, I guess.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:22:25 GMT, "MMC" wrote:

I agree 100%.
In any country under embargo, the powerful have what they need and want and
the poor are caused to suffer by the embargo, so who is the target?

The Miami Cuban establishment and people who don't think too deeply
about politics and money, I assume.

By the way, I'm an American Military Veteran and ex-Republican who has alot
of trouble walking thanks to a bomb outside Baghdad.

Sorry to hear that and I hope it doesn't permanently affect your
boating.

I "speak" to a lot of Americans thanks to newsgroups, lists, etc., and
when the conversation strays of-topic into politics, I am hearing from
a lot of "ex-Republicans". We have the same problem in Canada in that
our Conservatives aren't conservative, our Liberals aren't liberal,
and our socialists are beginning to look reasonable only because the
other two parties give money to their pals so heavily that they can't
HELP but be as fiscally responsible as conservatives/Republicans are
SUPPOSED to be. Many "conservatives" today seem to up spending and
slash taxes. Well, a five-year-old can figure out how long that can go
on before it all turns to ****, can't he?

I want to pay enough taxes to fund education, health, safety and
environmental standards. I want my government to resist the urge to
tell me how I can live, what I can do that doesnt' harm others, and to
bribe their pals with patronage appointments and cushy contracts. I
don't mind paying higher taxes if I can see the results in health
care, education and air that's clean(er) and cities that aren't
crumbling. That is not the case, lately.

Obviously, I'm a hopeless idealist, which is why I'm better off
cruising, I guess.

So why is this different than when Bubba was President, or George the 1st,
or Reagan, or Carter, or Ford, or Nixon, or Johnson or . . . . Ho hum!

The only difference is the increase in the number of people who have, as of
late, decided to go to Cuba. And then, advertised the fact. Then they wonder
why? Duuuhhhh!!!

Bet you the same people think sailboats always have the right of way,
silencers work on revolvers the millenium ended at the end of 1999, or . .
..drive their cars talking on cellphones, tailgating, speeding and running
redlights, then wonder why they get in accidents or get tickets.

Wave a red flag . . .get the horn.

M.





"Chuck Baier" wrote in message
om...
From the Feb. 12, 2004 Key West Citizen:

Grand jury summons Cuba boaters

BY TRAVIS JAMES TRITTEN

keysnews.com


KEY WEST -- A federal grand jury subpoenaed at least three sailors who
traveled from Key West to Cuba in a regatta and humanitarian aid
mission in May, and some race participants suspect U.S. attorneys are
seeking criminal indictments for alleged travel violations to the
communist country.

A Feb. 9 subpoena obtained by The Citizen commanded a local boat
captain who sailed in the Conch Republic Cup to appear before the Key
West jury Feb. 18.

The captain and two other sailors who were subpoenaed asked to remain
anonymous out of fear identifying them would affect possible cases
against them. They said agents with the U.S. Department of Commerce
interviewed them Tuesday about the trip to Cuba and then handed them
the subpoena.

In May, agents with the U.S Bureau of Immigration and Customs
Enforcement and the Commerce Department searched boats when they
returned from the annual event and confiscated property such as global
positioning system records, cameras and event paperwork.

Regatta participants were licensed to carry medicine and medical
supplies to hospitals in Cuba.

"I got the impression from others I talked to that É it was likely
that everyone [in the regatta] was being subpoenaed," one boat captain
said.

The U.S. Attorney's Office in Miami said it could neither confirm nor
deny the grand jury subpoenas, which were signed by Karen Gilbert,
Assistant U.S. Attorney in Miami. A spokesman with Customs Enforcement
was not immediately available.

The boat captain said he believes the grand jury activity is
politically motivated and part of a wider push to clamp down on travel
to Cuba.

"Our sailing organization is being singled out to become an example of
the Bush administration's stance on the [Cuban] embargo," he said.

Bush recently called for more stringent enforcement of laws that bar
most travel to Cuba. Spending money for Cuban travel is restricted to
licensed government officials, journalists, family members and a few
other select groups, according to the U.S. Department of State.

On May 21, the day before sailors departed Key West, Customs
Enforcement officers warned regatta participants not to take their
boats into Cuban waters. Zachary Mann, spokesman for the federal
agency, told The Citizen in May that the vessels were not approved by
the Commerce Department to travel to Cuba.

The federal Bureau of Export Administration sent a letter in late May
to Geslin Sailmakers, the organizer of the regatta, stating that the
sailors were required to get approval from the Commerce Department for
exporting to Cuba or Cuban waters "any vessel and its contents." The
letter also said unauthorized exports are subject to criminal
prosecution and administrative proceedings that could result in fines,
imprisonment, vessel forfeiture and denial of future export
privileges.

The Conch Republic Cup boaters sailed under the humanitarian aid
license of Concord Cayo Hueso, a Key West humanitarian group headed by
John Young that has been shipping food and medicine to Cuba since
1992.

"This year, being able to take humanitarian aid enabled us to, one,
legitimize our travels going under a license, but also to enhance the
purpose of it," a subpoenaed captain said. "We believed that we were
in compliance sailing under [Young's] license."

Young said regatta boaters were allowed to use the license on the
condition that they became members of his group.

"I know we had some members carrying food, and medicine primarily,"
Young said. "I don't know if [the grand jury activity] has anything to
do with Concord Cayo Hueso."

Young's humanitarian license was revoked following the May trip.

He said federal agents "bullied" the boaters at the docks when they
returned.

"There must have been 50 agents on those vessels coming back from that
race," Young said. "They took all kinds of stuff off those boats that
should not have been confiscated."

So why is this different than when Bubba was President, or George the 1st,
or Reagan, or Carter, or Ford, or Nixon, or Johnson or . . . . Ho hum!

The only difference is the increase in the number of people who have, as of
late, decided to go to Cuba. And then, advertised the fact. Then they wonder
why? Duuuhhhh!!!

Bet you the same people think sailboats always have the right of way,
silencers work on revolvers the millenium ended at the end of 1999, or . .
..drive their cars talking on cellphones, tailgating, speeding and running
redlights, then wonder why they get in accidents or get tickets.

Wave a red flag . . .get the horn.

M.





"Chuck Baier" wrote in message
om...
From the Feb. 12, 2004 Key West Citizen:

Grand jury summons Cuba boaters

BY TRAVIS JAMES TRITTEN

keysnews.com


KEY WEST -- A federal grand jury subpoenaed at least three sailors who
traveled from Key West to Cuba in a regatta and humanitarian aid
mission in May, and some race participants suspect U.S. attorneys are
seeking criminal indictments for alleged travel violations to the
communist country.

A Feb. 9 subpoena obtained by The Citizen commanded a local boat
captain who sailed in the Conch Republic Cup to appear before the Key
West jury Feb. 18.

The captain and two other sailors who were subpoenaed asked to remain
anonymous out of fear identifying them would affect possible cases
against them. They said agents with the U.S. Department of Commerce
interviewed them Tuesday about the trip to Cuba and then handed them
the subpoena.

In May, agents with the U.S Bureau of Immigration and Customs
Enforcement and the Commerce Department searched boats when they
returned from the annual event and confiscated property such as global
positioning system records, cameras and event paperwork.

Regatta participants were licensed to carry medicine and medical
supplies to hospitals in Cuba.

"I got the impression from others I talked to that É it was likely
that everyone [in the regatta] was being subpoenaed," one boat captain
said.

The U.S. Attorney's Office in Miami said it could neither confirm nor
deny the grand jury subpoenas, which were signed by Karen Gilbert,
Assistant U.S. Attorney in Miami. A spokesman with Customs Enforcement
was not immediately available.

The boat captain said he believes the grand jury activity is
politically motivated and part of a wider push to clamp down on travel
to Cuba.

"Our sailing organization is being singled out to become an example of
the Bush administration's stance on the [Cuban] embargo," he said.

Bush recently called for more stringent enforcement of laws that bar
most travel to Cuba. Spending money for Cuban travel is restricted to
licensed government officials, journalists, family members and a few
other select groups, according to the U.S. Department of State.

On May 21, the day before sailors departed Key West, Customs
Enforcement officers warned regatta participants not to take their
boats into Cuban waters. Zachary Mann, spokesman for the federal
agency, told The Citizen in May that the vessels were not approved by
the Commerce Department to travel to Cuba.

The federal Bureau of Export Administration sent a letter in late May
to Geslin Sailmakers, the organizer of the regatta, stating that the
sailors were required to get approval from the Commerce Department for
exporting to Cuba or Cuban waters "any vessel and its contents." The
letter also said unauthorized exports are subject to criminal
prosecution and administrative proceedings that could result in fines,
imprisonment, vessel forfeiture and denial of future export
privileges.

The Conch Republic Cup boaters sailed under the humanitarian aid
license of Concord Cayo Hueso, a Key West humanitarian group headed by
John Young that has been shipping food and medicine to Cuba since
1992.

"This year, being able to take humanitarian aid enabled us to, one,
legitimize our travels going under a license, but also to enhance the
purpose of it," a subpoenaed captain said. "We believed that we were
in compliance sailing under [Young's] license."

Young said regatta boaters were allowed to use the license on the
condition that they became members of his group.

"I know we had some members carrying food, and medicine primarily,"
Young said. "I don't know if [the grand jury activity] has anything to
do with Concord Cayo Hueso."

Young's humanitarian license was revoked following the May trip.

He said federal agents "bullied" the boaters at the docks when they
returned.

"There must have been 50 agents on those vessels coming back from that
race," Young said. "They took all kinds of stuff off those boats that
should not have been confiscated."

Sounds like politicians and politics are the same eiyther side of the border
Rhys.
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to do away with them all?
I'll have to see about the boating.
Think I'll become an illigal immigrant to Cuba!
Merlin.
"rhys" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:22:25 GMT, "MMC" wrote:

I agree 100%.
In any country under embargo, the powerful have what they need and want
and
the poor are caused to suffer by the embargo, so who is the target?

The Miami Cuban establishment and people who don't think too deeply
about politics and money, I assume.

By the way, I'm an American Military Veteran and ex-Republican who has
alot
of trouble walking thanks to a bomb outside Baghdad.

Sorry to hear that and I hope it doesn't permanently affect your
boating.

I "speak" to a lot of Americans thanks to newsgroups, lists, etc., and
when the conversation strays of-topic into politics, I am hearing from
a lot of "ex-Republicans". We have the same problem in Canada in that
our Conservatives aren't conservative, our Liberals aren't liberal,
and our socialists are beginning to look reasonable only because the
other two parties give money to their pals so heavily that they can't
HELP but be as fiscally responsible as conservatives/Republicans are
SUPPOSED to be. Many "conservatives" today seem to up spending and
slash taxes. Well, a five-year-old can figure out how long that can go
on before it all turns to ****, can't he?

I want to pay enough taxes to fund education, health, safety and
environmental standards. I want my government to resist the urge to
tell me how I can live, what I can do that doesnt' harm others, and to
bribe their pals with patronage appointments and cushy contracts. I
don't mind paying higher taxes if I can see the results in health
care, education and air that's clean(er) and cities that aren't
crumbling. That is not the case, lately.

Obviously, I'm a hopeless idealist, which is why I'm better off
cruising, I guess.

Sounds like politicians and politics are the same eiyther side of the border
Rhys.
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to do away with them all?
I'll have to see about the boating.
Think I'll become an illigal immigrant to Cuba!
Merlin.
"rhys" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:22:25 GMT, "MMC" wrote:

I agree 100%.
In any country under embargo, the powerful have what they need and want
and
the poor are caused to suffer by the embargo, so who is the target?

The Miami Cuban establishment and people who don't think too deeply
about politics and money, I assume.

By the way, I'm an American Military Veteran and ex-Republican who has
alot
of trouble walking thanks to a bomb outside Baghdad.

Sorry to hear that and I hope it doesn't permanently affect your
boating.

I "speak" to a lot of Americans thanks to newsgroups, lists, etc., and
when the conversation strays of-topic into politics, I am hearing from
a lot of "ex-Republicans". We have the same problem in Canada in that
our Conservatives aren't conservative, our Liberals aren't liberal,
and our socialists are beginning to look reasonable only because the
other two parties give money to their pals so heavily that they can't
HELP but be as fiscally responsible as conservatives/Republicans are
SUPPOSED to be. Many "conservatives" today seem to up spending and
slash taxes. Well, a five-year-old can figure out how long that can go
on before it all turns to ****, can't he?

I want to pay enough taxes to fund education, health, safety and
environmental standards. I want my government to resist the urge to
tell me how I can live, what I can do that doesnt' harm others, and to
bribe their pals with patronage appointments and cushy contracts. I
don't mind paying higher taxes if I can see the results in health
care, education and air that's clean(er) and cities that aren't
crumbling. That is not the case, lately.

Obviously, I'm a hopeless idealist, which is why I'm better off
cruising, I guess.

Hmmmm.... could this be the new Harry Krause from wrecked.botes???? Let's
leave it there and try not to screw up this group as well.

--


Keith
__
A critic is a man who knows the way, but can't drive the car.
"Chuck Baier" wrote in message
om...

Hmmmm.... could this be the new Harry Krause from wrecked.botes???? Let's
leave it there and try not to screw up this group as well.

--


Keith
__
A critic is a man who knows the way, but can't drive the car.
"Chuck Baier" wrote in message
om...

Keith, Thought this was a newsgroup about subjects that affect
boaters. I think this is a serious issue that as the original post
states has a major impact on boaters. Or did I miss something. Chuck


"Keith" wrote in message ...
Hmmmm.... could this be the new Harry Krause from wrecked.botes???? Let's
leave it there and try not to screw up this group as well.