On Jan 29, 5:35 am, GeoffSchultz
wrote:

It's very clear that the OP has problems with the unit as the behavior
that it exhibits is not normal.

Other than the screen black-outs, my E120 displayed all other
complaints prior to sending the unit in for 'repair.' I have another
friend who has a brand-new unit, installed professionally onto a brand-
new 47 foot Island Packet. Same behavior on his unit as well.


Seeing the boat position jump around makes me think that
the GPS antenna ... is at fault.

I sent the GPS unit in at the same time as the E120, and they claimed
it was flawless.


It isn't clear where the video was shot, but if the video was shot
while at anchor, then you can easily understand why the
radar overlay of the charts isn't in sync

That portion of the video which shows the radar being out of sync with
the chart was shot while underway, doing 8.2 knots approaching Roche
Harbor in the San Juan Islands. I suspect that the true reason the
radar is out of sync is because the chart drawing routines are
significantly slower than the radar drawing routines. But regardless,
the behavior and reliability of the E120 is self-evident as
demonstrated in my videos.


You can walk into any Westmarine and play with the RayMarine units
as long as you want, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for this complaint.

I did, in fact, play with the Raymarine in retail stores. Several, in
fact. In each and every one, the only charts available to me were the
built-in demo charts of the Port of Miami. I also played with it at
the Vancouver Boat Show, and had many targeted and specific questions
of the Raymarine representative. The bottom line is that the unit
looks beautiful when you're sitting still in a building on land. I'm
not making this stuff up - I posted these videos because I sincerely
want people to see what these systems are like - AFTER you've paid
your $15,000, drilled holes on your boat, and have taken the time to
install. When you actually get these products installed, and see them
in action, on the water, as my videos document, what you see is what
you actually get.


The software on the C120 allows you to view/log the SeaTalk data and
see error counts. I would concentrate on this and get some
professional assistance to debug the system.

I haven't yet posted my video documenting my attempts at getting
technical support from Raymarine, but believe me, I have tried. I
phoned my dealer within 2 weeks of installation, informing him of my
complaints. No satisfaction. So a month later, I phoned the
distributor of Raymarine products in Canada. The representative was
defensive, accusatory and blatantly rude. I phoned Raymarine tech
support. The tech told me to document the complaints and post it to
their website. I did so on Nov 10, 2007. No reply. I phoned
Raymarine warranty service on Dec 14. No reply. I phoned the VP of
International Sales, no reply.

I have a complete record of all of my attempts to resolve this
situation amicably. To date, I have received absolutely no help from
Raymarine, it's distributors nor my dealer.

"cognisense" wrote in message
...
On Jan 29, 5:35 am, GeoffSchultz
wrote:

It's very clear that the OP has problems with the unit as the behavior
that it exhibits is not normal.

Other than the screen black-outs, my E120 displayed all other
complaints prior to sending the unit in for 'repair.' I have another
friend who has a brand-new unit, installed professionally onto a brand-
new 47 foot Island Packet. Same behavior on his unit as well.


Seeing the boat position jump around makes me think that
the GPS antenna ... is at fault.

I sent the GPS unit in at the same time as the E120, and they claimed
it was flawless.


It isn't clear where the video was shot, but if the video was shot
while at anchor, then you can easily understand why the
radar overlay of the charts isn't in sync

That portion of the video which shows the radar being out of sync with
the chart was shot while underway, doing 8.2 knots approaching Roche
Harbor in the San Juan Islands. I suspect that the true reason the
radar is out of sync is because the chart drawing routines are
significantly slower than the radar drawing routines. But regardless,
the behavior and reliability of the E120 is self-evident as
demonstrated in my videos.


You can walk into any Westmarine and play with the RayMarine units
as long as you want, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for this
complaint.

I did, in fact, play with the Raymarine in retail stores. Several, in
fact. In each and every one, the only charts available to me were the
built-in demo charts of the Port of Miami. I also played with it at
the Vancouver Boat Show, and had many targeted and specific questions
of the Raymarine representative. The bottom line is that the unit
looks beautiful when you're sitting still in a building on land. I'm
not making this stuff up - I posted these videos because I sincerely
want people to see what these systems are like - AFTER you've paid
your $15,000, drilled holes on your boat, and have taken the time to
install. When you actually get these products installed, and see them
in action, on the water, as my videos document, what you see is what
you actually get.


The software on the C120 allows you to view/log the SeaTalk data and
see error counts. I would concentrate on this and get some
professional assistance to debug the system.

I haven't yet posted my video documenting my attempts at getting
technical support from Raymarine, but believe me, I have tried. I
phoned my dealer within 2 weeks of installation, informing him of my
complaints. No satisfaction. So a month later, I phoned the
distributor of Raymarine products in Canada. The representative was
defensive, accusatory and blatantly rude. I phoned Raymarine tech
support. The tech told me to document the complaints and post it to
their website. I did so on Nov 10, 2007. No reply. I phoned
Raymarine warranty service on Dec 14. No reply. I phoned the VP of
International Sales, no reply.

I have a complete record of all of my attempts to resolve this
situation amicably. To date, I have received absolutely no help from
Raymarine, it's distributors nor my dealer.

Sounds like a legitimate complaint to me... perhaps you have recourse
through your credit card? I'm sure you've either thought of it or it isn't
possible. The only quibble I have is re the UI... isn't this something
that's independent of the jumping boat, screen blanking, etc.? Seems like
that part should have been observable before purchase.

I'm not sure how posting will help your efforts, but it will certainly alert
others to be uber-cautious with their products (as we should be with all
products, especially those costing $15K).

Perhaps you can file a complaint with your Better Business Bureau, and then
there is always the take-them-to-court option.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Sounds like a legitimate complaint to me... perhaps you have recourse
through your credit card? I'm sure you've either thought of it or it isn't
possible. The only quibble I have is re the UI... isn't this something
that's independent of the jumping boat, screen blanking, etc.? Seems like
that part should have been observable before purchase.

I'm not sure how posting will help your efforts, but it will certainly alert
others to be uber-cautious with their products (as we should be with all
products, especially those costing $15K).

Perhaps you can file a complaint with your Better Business Bureau, and then
there is always the take-them-to-court option.


The BBB has no enforcement powers but will make inquiries on your
behalf and will put the offending company in their files. Trouble is no
one goes to the BBB to check to see a company is in their files.
G

Once again I will state that you need to look at the system as a
whole. The display head my not have any problems, but there could be
issues with devices on the SeaTalk bus. This possibly includes a
SeaTalk GPS antenna and any other instruments.

I have a C80 which runs the same software that is on the C120 and I've
never seen any of the issues that you describe. The only difference
between the C80 and the C120 (that I know of) is the size of the
display. Since RayMarine has already replaced the system board on the
display, this makes me believe that the problem lies elsewhere within
the *system*.

Who installed the system for you? Have you had the installer out to
figure out what's going on? What other devices are in the SeaTalk
bus? Have you reviewed the output of the diagnostics such as SeaTalk
message errors? As far as RayMarine tech support, I have always found
them very reasonable to deal with if you approach them with a
reasonable attitide.

-- Geoff

On Jan 29, 9:14 am, GeoffSchultz
wrote:
Once again I will state that you need to look at the system as a
whole. ...

It seems quite possible that the refresh and positioning problems
could be a result of network issues. A bad cable or connection or a
faulty talker could be overwhelming the network with bad packets.
This happens on LANs all the time and is one of the potential
downsides of networked instrument systems.

... As far as RayMarine tech support, I have always found
them very reasonable to deal with if you approach them with a
reasonable attitide. ...

I guess the tech support must be hit or miss. I've never gotten any
satisfaction from them and I've tried hard. Also, my experience with
my Raytheon radar has been mixed at best and I would not recommend it.
Although, that's a moot point as they have moved on the their new
tech.

--Tom.

wrote:
On Jan 29, 9:14 am, GeoffSchultz
wrote:
Once again I will state that you need to look at the system as a
whole. ...

It seems quite possible that the refresh and positioning problems
could be a result of network issues. A bad cable or connection or a
faulty talker could be overwhelming the network with bad packets.
This happens on LANs all the time and is one of the potential
downsides of networked instrument systems.

... As far as RayMarine tech support, I have always found
them very reasonable to deal with if you approach them with a
reasonable attitide. ...

I guess the tech support must be hit or miss. I've never gotten any
satisfaction from them and I've tried hard. Also, my experience with
my Raytheon radar has been mixed at best and I would not recommend it.
Although, that's a moot point as they have moved on the their new
tech.

--Tom.

His friend has the same issues on his. Two faulty talkers?
Gordon

On Jan 29, 9:54 am, Gordon wrote:
... His friend has the same issues on his. Two faulty talkers? ...

That wouldn't surprise me, but bad cables are more common. It is
super easy to make a bad cable and the installer will probably have
had to make up several in each network. Of course, Raymarine could
have screwed-up the cables, too. In my experience, now very dated,
faulty cables made up the majority of problems on LANs followed by bad
NICs. We occasionally got whole lots of faulty NICs... Switch
failure was pretty rare.

-- Tom.

On Jan 29, 11:14 am, GeoffSchultz
wrote:

Once again I will state that you need to look at the system as a
whole. The display head my not have any problems, but there could be
issues with devices on the SeaTalk bus.

Excellent points. I did have the GPS unit checked out with the E120,
and they claimed it to be working fine. Also on the SeaTalk bus are
the Wind/Speed/Depth instruments. When the E120 was off my boat, they
performed flawlessly.


I have a C80 which runs the same software that is on the C120 and I've
never seen any of the issues that you describe.

I'm certainly very happy for you that your system is working well.
Why mine is flawed is something that seems to confound my dealer as
well as the Raymarine distributor here in Canada.


Have you reviewed the output of the diagnostics such as SeaTalk
message errors?

That's another excellent suggestion. I'll look into this and report
back. It sure would have been nice if one of the Raymarine techs had
suggested it. But, as I've stated in other posts, they've ignored my
emails for over 60 days now. And believe me, my emails were very,
very politely written. All bitterness you or others might detect in
my videos was definitely not in the emails - and only exist in the
videos because this struggle has been going on all summer long and
I've been forced into taking my grievances public.

On Jan 30, 12:10 am, cognisense wrote:
On Jan 29, 11:14 am, GeoffSchultz
wrote:

Once again I will state that you need to look at the system as a
whole. The display head my not have any problems, but there could be
issues with devices on the SeaTalk bus.

Excellent points. I did have the GPS unit checked out with the E120,
and they claimed it to be working fine. Also on the SeaTalk bus are
the Wind/Speed/Depth instruments. When the E120 was off my boat, they
performed flawlessly.

I have a C80 which runs the same software that is on the C120 and I've
never seen any of the issues that you describe.

I'm certainly very happy for you that your system is working well.
Why mine is flawed is something that seems to confound my dealer as
well as the Raymarine distributor here in Canada.

Have you reviewed the output of the diagnostics such as SeaTalk
message errors?

That's another excellent suggestion. I'll look into this and report
back. It sure would have been nice if one of the Raymarine techs had
suggested it. But, as I've stated in other posts, they've ignored my
emails for over 60 days now. And believe me, my emails were very,
very politely written. All bitterness you or others might detect in
my videos was definitely not in the emails - and only exist in the
videos because this struggle has been going on all summer long and
I've been forced into taking my grievances public.

You have every right to be upset. I have avoided the new Raymaine
plotters because they are based on a Windows OS. Well reliable a
mobile OS is not designed to be mission critical. I believe part of
your problem may be the Navionics cards themselves. Specifically the
memory chip may be causing the back plain bus to hang causing the
screen blanks. May I suggest you try a card that is known to be in
good operating order. Also remove all the interfaces to the unit
except the GPS. Note that you can check the GPS with a laptop using
its NEMA interface. With respect to the radar being outof synce you
may need to add a Gyro to your system.

Good luck.

Bob
"Nightingale" Beneteau 331

In article
,
cognisense wrote:

That portion of the video which shows the radar being out of sync with
the chart was shot while underway, doing 8.2 knots approaching Roche
Harbor in the San Juan Islands.

Sounds to "Me" that you really NEED a GOOD Marine Electronics Tech,
to go over your system. Did you install all this stuff yourself?
In the great scheme of things Marine, and Electronic, there are
Consumer Electronics, Professional Electronics, and then there is
the stuff the Commercial Boys use. RayNav is in the first Group.
If your looking for quality, RayNav isn't for you, but your going
to have to PAY for quality. If your looking for a GOOD Marine
Electronic TECH, in Seattle area, I would suggest Don Hollingsworth
Sr. or Jr. at G & L Marine Radio. There is No One better, or with
more experience, left down there, especially with Marine Radars.

--
Bruce in alaska
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