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jeff wrote:
Joe didn't post here often, but for those that know him from ASA: http://www.khou.com/news/local/stori...ue.c061dc.html A sad day - at least they are all safe. A boat coming apart in 20 foot seas? What type of boat is this? |
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Goofball_star_dot_etal wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 00:10:00 -0700, Paul Cassel wrote: wrote: On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 22:07:27 -0700, Paul Cassel wrote: jeff wrote: Joe didn't post here often, but for those that know him from ASA: http://www.khou.com/news/local/stori...ue.c061dc.html A sad day - at least they are all safe. A boat coming apart in 20 foot seas? What type of boat is this? A 42 foot steel ketch with a 5 ton cargo of coffee beans. Homebuilt? http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt...d3cf0830?hl=en http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt...b301cad27f766b Very sad. Sounds like they were inexperienced. Sad tale. Although I was unaware of these guys, I wish that they could have succeeded. |
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Joe didn't post here often, but for those that know him from ASA:
http://www.khou.com/news/local/stori...ue.c061dc.html A sad day - at least they are all safe. |
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On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:21:20 -0500, "Roger Long"
wrote: The buoy reports for the area don't show the winds so bad that a vessel like Red Cloud with a master as experienced as Joe should have gone down unless there was a flooding problem. http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/show_plot.p...eas=wdpr&uom=E http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/show_plot.p...eas=wdpr&uom=E There are near gale conditions over much of the Gulf right now, and it's out of the north and *cold* by our standards. Not a good place to be for a heavily loaded 40 footer. |
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here's the CG report. Says Terry had an injured leg.
http://www.piersystem.com/go/doc/425/187752/ SBV "jeff" wrote in message ... Joe didn't post here often, but for those that know him from ASA: http://www.khou.com/news/local/stori...102_ac_cgrescu e.c061dc.html A sad day - at least they are all safe. |
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wrote:
They reported that they were taking on water, and possibly were holed. They also had an extra 10,000 pounds of weight aboard, which probably didn't help either stability or freeboard. Wayne.B wrote: Was this his first coffee run? Yes, brand-new business. Who knows how it would have worked out. I'm glad to hear that they're safe but sick to hear that their adventure ended this way. Doug King |
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On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 00:10:00 -0700, Paul Cassel
wrote: wrote: On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 22:07:27 -0700, Paul Cassel wrote: jeff wrote: Joe didn't post here often, but for those that know him from ASA: http://www.khou.com/news/local/stori...ue.c061dc.html A sad day - at least they are all safe. A boat coming apart in 20 foot seas? What type of boat is this? A 42 foot steel ketch with a 5 ton cargo of coffee beans. Homebuilt? http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt...d3cf0830?hl=en http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt...b301cad27f766b Very sad. |
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jeff wrote in news:G4ydnf64SN-
: Joe didn't post here often, but for those that know him from ASA: http://www.khou.com/news/local/stori...ue.c061dc.html A sad day - at least they are all safe. Sad, indeed. He must have had HF/SSB aboard to call the hams, maybe on 14.300 Mhz. I wonder what he was doing out there without a 406 Mhz EPIRB? The story or video made no mention of an EPIRB alarm. Sounded like the mainmast must have busted loose and was tearing the cabin roof apart. Glad they're all safe....including the dog. Larry -- Next time some broker tells you what a great investment he's selling, ask him about Rhodium, a shiny metal used in Catalytic Converters. Jan 1st 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Rhodium $452 $1341 $3006 $5339 $6775 PER OUNCE! How much longer can we pay for new cars at this rate? Feb '97 it was $182/oz |
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On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:15:32 -0500, wrote:
This story should be renamed: "Oil platform saves the lives of wacko environmentalists" I'm ROTFLMFAO with the irony of this story. Irony notwithstanding, that's a bit harsh don't you think? We are talking about a long standing member of the community here who has just lost his pride and joy. |
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"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:15:32 -0500, wrote: This story should be renamed: "Oil platform saves the lives of wacko environmentalists" I'm ROTFLMFAO with the irony of this story. Irony notwithstanding, that's a bit harsh don't you think? We are talking about a long standing member of the community here who has just lost his pride and joy. Salty has been riding Joe's case for years. He's even operated under the name of "Rusty Redcloud" just to stir Joe's ire. Joe got the best of him in the end, putting an end to Salty's long and infamous career as an internet haranger. Salty has just wet his pants with glee over Joe's misfortune. He's trying to hide it, but every time he rises to jump up and down people notice the big wet spot running down his legs. |
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I took that as Salty copy/pasting anothers comments, NOT
his. I could be wrong, it's happened before. SBV "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:15:32 -0500, wrote: This story should be renamed: "Oil platform saves the lives of wacko environmentalists" I'm ROTFLMFAO with the irony of this story. Irony notwithstanding, that's a bit harsh don't you think? We are talking about a long standing member of the community here who has just lost his pride and joy. |
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"Paul Cassel" wrote in message news:w4-dnVICY4lUY- Sounds like they were inexperienced. Sad tale. Although I was unaware of these guys, I wish that they could have succeeded. Joe is VERY experienced. So is Terry, his wife. They are/were both licensed captains and used to work on various sized boats/ships. SBV |
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On Jan 2, 12:38*pm, wrote:
wrote: They reported that they were taking on water, and possibly were holed. They also had an extra 10,000 pounds of weight aboard, which probably didn't help either stability or freeboard. Wayne.B wrote: Was this his first coffee run? Yes, brand-new business. Who knows how it would have worked out. I'm glad to hear that they're safe but sick to hear that their adventure ended this way. Doug King Who said it's over Doug?, as soon as I have water to float a friends trawler were off to beat the salvors and get my boat and coffee. Roger is right, we had 35 fters that took out a wheelhouse window and cracked one side of the wheelhouse. Noaa was off by 30kts of wind and 15-20 ft seas. The vid the USCG took were mid day as things laid down (25ft). The USCG refused to only evac terry she was injured , sprain ankle, and skipper and they said worse weather that night. I left the genny running and deployed a drouge first, went to an anchor then rigged a spare main sail as a para that finally held us to a 6kt drift. I'll update you all as soon as I get my boat back. Wish me luck. and thanks for your concern. BTW we will be on CBS morning show in the morning. Best Regards, Joe |
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On Jan 2, 6:09*am, jeff wrote:
Joe didn't post here often, but for those that know him from ASA: http://www.khou.com/news/local/stori...grescue.c061dc.... A sad day - at least they are all safe. Looks like a reasonable day to me. Conditions what those in the PNW would call "lumpy.... snotty" but certainly not a threat to life nor vessel. Guess all that "Im the best damn sailor in the GOM" serves as another example of just how most people on yachts lack even the most fundamental skills to operate their boats. 42' steel boat??? DId you see teh size of thoes picture windows on the center cockpit condo?? NOt exactly what Id call a proper cargo boat. My 2 cents is the thing was loaded to the gills with coffee (5 tons??) wallowed, and that HUGE center condo got slapped a good one. Hell, the tv footage shows sombody standing just aft of the condo port side. This event goes logged right next to Skip n Lydias dream chase. Bob |
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"Roger Long" wrote in
: Freeboard however, could have been a problem. The reports indicate that it was the cabin and upperworks that were failing and having them closer to the waterline might have made a difference in the boarding of a big sea. Still, 10,000 pounds of beans should only have sunk her about half a foot and they took some other stuff off to compensate so the weight probably wasn't a factor in this accident. -- Roger Long It would be hard to put that much bulk below the waterline, so we may assume it would be, mostly, above, making an interesting balance equation, given her already heavy steel construction above the waterline never designed for heavy freight hauling in the first place. Wonder what her keel draft and counterbalance weight was....?? Larry -- Next time some broker tells you what a great investment he's selling, ask him about Rhodium, a shiny metal used in Catalytic Converters. Jan 1st 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Rhodium $452 $1341 $3006 $5339 $6775 PER OUNCE! How much longer can we pay for new cars at this rate? Feb '97 it was $182/oz |
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On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 16:45:44 -0500, wrote:
Irony notwithstanding, that's a bit harsh don't you think? We are talking about a long standing member of the community here who has just lost his pride and joy. Please watch you attributions Wayne. I didn't post that statement. I posted the readers comment from the newspaper because I could just imagine Joe's reaction to someone labeling him an "eco-hippy". Sorry, not the way I read it. Picture of "RedCloud" and owners he http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5405650.html |
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Joe is posting to alt.sailing.asa....
He will be on CBS This Morning tomorrow morning to tell his tale. They are floating a trawler to go retrieve Red Cloud before the salvage crews get to her, Joe said, and will retrieve both boat and coffee asap. CG refused to take just the injured wife off and ordered all hands abandon ship to the helo. How you keep seawater out of coffee remains a mystery.....?? Add alt.sailing.asa to your newsgroup pile.... |
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On Jan 2, 1:47*pm, "Scotty" wrote:
"Paul Cassel" wrote in message news:w4-dnVICY4lUY- Joe is VERY experienced. So is Terry, his wife. They are/were both licensed captains and used to work on various sized boats/ships. SBV Hummm, obviously that doesnt mean much. HOw to be a licensed captaiin......? Own a 15' rowboat for a few years. Fill out a CG form that says I have 180 days sea service on my rowboat. Take the test.. now I have a 25 grt Captain License. Go to work on a OSV as a Ordinary Seaman (minumum wage) after 180 days then upgrade your captains license to 50 or 100 grt and get your OS upgraded to an Able Seaman Special OSV. wich means now you make $8.50/ hr and still cant work on any boat except on somthing that works in the GOM oil patch. Why, cause there are seveal AB levels of which AB Special OSV is the botom of the barrel. But you can go around and brag that youre a USCG captain and merchant seaman.......... ya, right at $8.50 hour.. Bob |
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On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:56:52 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote: On Jan 2, 12:38*pm, wrote: wrote: They reported that they were taking on water, and possibly were holed. They also had an extra 10,000 pounds of weight aboard, which probably didn't help either stability or freeboard. Wayne.B wrote: Was this his first coffee run? Yes, brand-new business. Who knows how it would have worked out. I'm glad to hear that they're safe but sick to hear that their adventure ended this way. Doug King Who said it's over Doug?, as soon as I have water to float a friends trawler were off to beat the salvors and get my boat and coffee. Roger is right, we had 35 fters that took out a wheelhouse window and cracked one side of the wheelhouse. Noaa was off by 30kts of wind and 15-20 ft seas. The vid the USCG took were mid day as things laid down (25ft). The USCG refused to only evac terry she was injured , sprain ankle, and skipper and they said worse weather that night. I left the genny running and deployed a drouge first, went to an anchor then rigged a spare main sail as a para that finally held us to a 6kt drift. I'll update you all as soon as I get my boat back. Wish me luck. and thanks for your concern. BTW we will be on CBS morning show in the morning. Best Regards, Joe Next time wave for the camera! http://cgvi.uscg.mil/media/main.php?g2_itemId=206301 |
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wrote:
I'm glad to hear that they're safe but sick to hear that their adventure ended this way. Joe wrote: Who said it's over Doug?, as soon as I have water to float a friends trawler were off to beat the salvors and get my boat and coffee. Hey, there ya go. If we were on the Gulf, I'd offer to give you a ride. ... Roger is right, we had 35 fters that took out a wheelhouse window and cracked one side of the wheelhouse. I bet it was not the height of the wave, instead the height (and mass) of the breakers riding atop the waves. It doesn't take a 35 footer to build up a rolling, roiling crest. Another issue is that the data bouys often mis-state wave height because the breaking part of the crest goes by too fast to register. The USCG refused to only evac terry she was injured , sprain ankle, and skipper and they said worse weather that night. Yep, that's the way they do business. It's so that they won't have to come back a second time for the others. I'll update you all as soon as I get my boat back. Wish me luck. and thanks for your concern. Excellent, wish you all the best and that we soon hear of Red Cloud's arrival in port! BTW we will be on CBS morning show in the morning. We don't watch TV but it'll be good publicity. Good luck! Doug King |
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In article , Joe wrote:
Who said it's over Doug?, as soon as I have water to float a friends trawler were off to beat the salvors and get my boat and coffee. Roger is right, we had 35 fters that took out a wheelhouse window and cracked one side of the wheelhouse. Noaa was off by 30kts of wind and 15-20 ft seas. The vid the USCG took were mid day as things laid down (25ft). The USCG refused to only evac terry she was injured , sprain ankle, and skipper and they said worse weather that night. I left the genny running and deployed a drouge first, went to an anchor then rigged a spare main sail as a para that finally held us to a 6kt drift. I wish you every success in recovering your home and your business, and I hope your year improves from now on in! Justin. -- Justin C, by the sea. |
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On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:37:23 -0500, BAR wrote:
Bearing Sea Bering Sea. Named for a Russian explorer. The Russians were early in the area. Recall that we bought Alaska from them..There is a brand of pretty good cigars named for him, his picture is on the box. I don't usually do spelling corrections, as usually the meaning is obvious. Proper names are an exception. Casady |
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Good Luck Joe!
I'll try to tape that show, too early for me. Scotty I'll update you all as soon as I get my boat back. Wish me luck. and thanks for your concern. BTW we will be on CBS morning show in the morning. Best Regards, Joe |
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wrote in message ... On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:20:39 -0800, "Lee" wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:15:32 -0500, wrote: This story should be renamed: "Oil platform saves the lives of wacko environmentalists" I'm ROTFLMFAO with the irony of this story. Irony notwithstanding, that's a bit harsh don't you think? We are talking about a long standing member of the community here who has just lost his pride and joy. Salty has been riding Joe's case for years. He's even operated under the name of "Rusty Redcloud" just to stir Joe's ire. Joe got the best of him in the end, putting an end to Salty's long and infamous career as an internet haranger. Salty has just wet his pants with glee over Joe's misfortune. He's trying to hide it, but every time he rises to jump up and down people notice the big wet spot running down his legs. How many more names are you going to post under today? What are you talking about? Will any of them have a clue? Will you? I didn't even post the comment Wayne is whining about. Yes you did and see Wayne's follow up. You did not put what it in quotations or do any attribution. That combined with your demeaning legacy toward Joe would lead anyone to conclude you wrote it and if you didn't you found great amusement in the comments. Did you send Joe a check yet, as you imlied you would do, or was that just more empty grandstanding? What are you talking about? Are you nuts? Pretending that you don't know wher to send it is pretty lame. You are lame. You are many years of lameness. You have posted people addresses, phone numbers, pictures of their wives and information about where they work despite numerous requests to stop. You constantly referred to Joe as an idiot and went out of your way to be extra rotten to him. Joe sure put an end to that didn't he? Now you pretend to actually care for the guy. Now that's lame! |
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On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 18:18:09 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 16:45:44 -0500, wrote: Irony notwithstanding, that's a bit harsh don't you think? We are talking about a long standing member of the community here who has just lost his pride and joy. Please watch you attributions Wayne. I didn't post that statement. I posted the readers comment from the newspaper because I could just imagine Joe's reaction to someone labeling him an "eco-hippy". Sorry, not the way I read it. Picture of "RedCloud" and owners he http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5405650.html Joe is the farthest from eco-hippy as you can get. He loves his boat, and decided to put it to use in venture capitalism fashion. I sure hope he retrieves it and carries on. Besides being saddened for Joe, I'm selfishly ****ed his story has been interrupted, because I was rooting for him. He's got true grit. Good luck to you Joe! --Vic |
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"Bob" wrote in message groups.com... On Jan 2, 1:47 pm, "Scotty" wrote: "Paul Cassel" wrote in message news:w4-dnVICY4lUY- Joe is VERY experienced. So is Terry, his wife. They are/were both licensed captains and used to work on various sized boats/ships. SBV Hummm, obviously that doesnt mean much. HOw to be a licensed captaiin......? Own a 15' rowboat for a few years. Fill out a CG form that says I have 180 days sea service on my rowboat. Take the test.. now I have a 25 grt Captain License. Go to work on a OSV as a Ordinary Seaman (minumum wage) after 180 days then upgrade your captains license to 50 or 100 grt and get your OS upgraded to an Able Seaman Special OSV. wich means now you make $8.50/ hr and still cant work on any boat except on somthing that works in the GOM oil patch. Why, cause there are seveal AB levels of which AB Special OSV is the botom of the barrel. But you can go around and brag that youre a USCG captain and merchant seaman.......... ya, right at $8.50 hour.. Bob You're wrong Bob. |
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On Jan 2, 7:30*pm, "Scotty" wrote:
You're wrong Bob. Wrong about what? I dont think I all that off on the How to be a Captain part. Or was joe that guy who bragged bout being a crewboat oerator in the 80s....? Seems the obivious is painfully appearent. Bob |
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On 2008-01-02 17:56:52 -0500, Joe said:
Who said it's over Doug?, as soon as I have water to float a friends trawler were off to beat the salvors and get my boat and coffee. Roger is right, we had 35 fters that took out a wheelhouse window and cracked one side of the wheelhouse. Noaa was off by 30kts of wind and 15-20 ft seas. The vid the USCG took were mid day as things laid down (25ft). The USCG refused to only evac terry she was injured , sprain ankle, and skipper and they said worse weather that night. I left the genny running and deployed a drouge first, went to an anchor then rigged a spare main sail as a para that finally held us to a 6kt drift. I'll update you all as soon as I get my boat back. Please do. Really hope you can retrieve her. Do I properly assume you'll be modifying the wheelhouse a bit before you do that trip again? ;-) -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:14:25 -0800, armchair Admiral Bob wrote:
snip Why not share some of your no doubt well-intentioned concern with Joe directly...you big-mouthed arsehole. *plonk* |
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wrote in :
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5422694.html I always get a kick out of the media sniping about the cost of the rescue in all of this. The cost of the rescue was Zero because we ALREADY planned to pay the crew, maintenance, CG budget even if they never rescued Joe. If they hadn't rescued anyone, they would have burned the fuel and airframe times doing PRACTICE rescues, anyways, the public never thinks about. The cost of Joe's rescue, was .0000000000125% of the cost of rescuing ONE Iraqi from his government torturers. The media doesn't start mentioning that until well after the 50 billion dollar mark in war expenditures, after the war is mostly over, because they have to have SOME credibility in the middle of the DoD propaganda campaign they've been running since 9/11 "It's all HIS fault and HE should pay!" He did....MANY times over in a lifetime of taxes. Larry -- Next time some broker tells you what a great investment he's selling, ask him about Rhodium, a shiny metal used in Catalytic Converters. Jan 1st 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Rhodium $452 $1341 $3006 $5339 $6775 PER OUNCE! How much longer can we pay for new cars at this rate? Feb '97 it was $182/oz |
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On Jan 3, 6:10*am, "mr.b" wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:14:25 -0800, armchair Admiral Bob wrote: snip Why not share some of your no doubt well-intentioned concern with Joe directly...you big-mouthed arsehole. *plonk* Storm brewed trouble for trio Texans have 5 tons of coffee afloat in the Gulf By Ruth Rendon Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle "...To make matters worse, Terry Butcher, 50, .....does not swim and was terrified of getting into the Gulf waters even with a life jacket...." Now why would a NON swimmer and "...terrified..." of the water want to sail a boat? I met a bunch of coon asses in the GOM. They worked offshore simply cause thats the only place they could make more than minimum wage. No skills... no education... no love of the water.... Even met a coon ass in dive school who wanted to be a oil patch diver cause day make da good money. Problem was mr. Bima couldnt swim. Kinda funny watching him peddle that bike underwater going no where. He was scared of the water too. But your right. I dont know the man nor the details. Just the painful obvious few bits of information. Cops like to say, "consistant with...." as in, "the facts are consistant with......" |
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Dave wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:23:10 +0000, Larry said: The cost of the rescue was Zero because we ALREADY planned to pay the crew, maintenance, CG budget even if they never rescued Joe. And the cost of driving a Ferrari 15 miles is about $4.00, right? What is your problem, Dave? |
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wrote in message
... On 3 Jan 2008 13:40:02 -0600, Dave wrote: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:23:10 +0000, Larry said: The cost of the rescue was Zero because we ALREADY planned to pay the crew, maintenance, CG budget even if they never rescued Joe. And the cost of driving a Ferrari 15 miles is about $4.00, right? I don't think the USCG uses a Ferrari for rescues. When you invite guests over for a visit, does your mortgage payment change? Yes... if the guest is a lawyer like Dave. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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In article
, Bob wrote: Now why would a NON swimmer and "...terrified..." of the water want to sail a boat? Why not? There are many aboard ships who do not swim well. Being terrified by the water is not the worst attitude. At least judging by the people who get caught by avalanches over here, or who die paragliding from the mountain tops, there are two groups at risk: the ones who did not have sufficient training ("beginners") - and "cracks", who have so much experience that they loose respect. Pulling out at the right time is a very healthy attitude. How far do you get in cold water? After all, at least in colder waters, it does not help much. Going into the water is always the very last resort, ask any member of the USCG I guess. At least the German equivalent (http://www.dgzrs.de) strongly advises against, because of the risks of cold water - and cold for that purpose starts at below 25 degrees Celsius. Death by hypothermia is NOT the only or the biggest risk, there is cardiac arrest by the shock of entering the cold water, there is quick loss of muscle power even for very healthy young men etc. The loss of body heat means on the contrary that you should NOT swim once you are in the water, provided you have a good rescue vest. And: Have you ever tried to swim after a boat? If you want to read more about it, see http://www.tc.gc.ca/marinesafety/TP/.../chapter-1.htm for a good summary (recommended reading!). Also good advice from any rescue organization: If you see that you will need help, by all means call early enough before darkness falls - it is so much easier to find and rescue people with the help of daylight. Plus: It is always easy if you are not actually involved. Now before you start jumping on me: I do swim, but have no intention whatsoever to do so when on sea or even with a bigger boat on a lake. Now to the unlucky boat owner Joe, his wife and his brother: All the best, I wish you luck rescueing the boat and getting on with what you had in mind. Marc -- remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail http://www.heusser.com |
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On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:48:53 GMT, wrote:
I don't think the USCG uses a Ferrari for rescues. When you invite guests over for a visit, does your mortgage payment change? They use helicopters with a purchase cost of at least $2 or 3M, and a flying cost upwards of $2K/hour. The purchase cost is baked in but the flying costs are not. |
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On Jan 3, 12:58 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
.... They use helicopters with a purchase cost of at least $2 or 3M, and a flying cost upwards of $2K/hour. The purchase cost is baked in but the flying costs are not. I live right next to a CG base and they fly their helicopters virtually continuously. I guess they send air assets to a distress call less than once a month. Is it really better to pay them to check out the bikinis on Waikiki than it is to have them saving some lives? -- Tom. |
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