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On Jan 3, 1:37 pm, BAR wrote:
wrote: On Jan 3, 12:58 pm, Wayne.B wrote: ... They use helicopters with a purchase cost of at least $2 or 3M, and a flying cost upwards of $2K/hour. The purchase cost is baked in but the flying costs are not. I live right next to a CG base and they fly their helicopters virtually continuously. ... Training, training, training. Whether skimming the surf on Waikiki or the Bearing Sea its all good practice. I don't doubt it and no criticism was intended. I was just suggesting that the flying costs may well be built in too. -- Tom. |
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This thread sure went to hell in a hurry. But then, this is a NG...what
else should I expect? -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...35630&cat=1304 |
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Dave,
If they aren't out doing the rescue they'd be running an exercise of the rescue or just flat-assed burning hours to make their flight requirements for the month. Difference in the cost to the taxpayer is practically nil. From someone who worked at the Comptrollers Office on an Air Force Base once upon a time. |
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Steve Thrasher wrote in news:477daa04
@news.acsalaska.net: Difference in the cost to the taxpayer is practically nil. From someone who worked at the Comptrollers Office on an Air Force Base once upon a time. My point, EXACTLY. They would have spent the same money, one way or the other. Remember the first rule of a government budget: USE IT OR LOSE IT! I wasn't a Charleston Naval Shipyard GS-11 for nothing!...(c; The trick is to run the budget to 0 on the day before the forced Xmas vacation that lasted to Jan 02... THAT took a great bureaucrat with excellent planning! Larry -- Next time some broker tells you what a great investment he's selling, ask him about Rhodium, a shiny metal used in Catalytic Converters. Jan 1st 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Rhodium $452 $1341 $3006 $5339 $6775 PER OUNCE! How much longer can we pay for new cars at this rate? Feb '97 it was $182/oz |
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On Jan 2, 7:21*am, "Roger Long" wrote:
The buoy reports for the area don't show the winds so bad that a vessel like Red Cloud with a master as experienced as Joe should have gone down unless there was a flooding problem. Roger Long Hi Roger: Would yo care to comment on your earlier words below from NOvember 10, 2007: "...For the record, just in case you get abducted by aliens or have some other mishap, I did not provide you with a formula to determine how much cargo you can safely carry. I did give you a way to make a rough estimate of how much your draft will change with the addition of weight. Whether your vessel is "safe" at *any* particular draft is a very different question. Even when I do a complete stability analysis, stability test, computer model, Coast Guard stability criteria, loading conditions, righting arms, wind heel area, etc., safety has little to do with it. The boiler plate in the letter that accompanies such reports states that I am not expressing any opinion about the vessel's safety or seaworthiness. I perform standard calculations in accordance with a recognized methodology to determine certain characteristics. International research and conventions has produced a consensus that certain measures of these characteristics are associated with vessels that have a reasonable chance of surviving the effects of weather. Some of these measures have been turned into regulation. It is the comparison of the characteristics found by the calculations I perform with numbers determined by IMO, USCG, and other organizations that makes the determination of safety, not my opinion. ...." What was your opinion???????????? Bob |
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On 3 Jan 2008 16:54:02 -0600, Dave wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:42:15 -0600, cavelamb himself said: The cost of the rescue was Zero because we ALREADY planned to pay the crew, maintenance, CG budget even if they never rescued Joe. And the cost of driving a Ferrari 15 miles is about $4.00, right? What is your problem, Dave? I'm surprised I have to explain it to you. And apparently you're not alone. Larry makes the common error of equating "cost" with marginal cost. You might use only $4.00 of gas to drive the Ferrari 15 miles, but only a fool would say that the costs of driving a Ferrari are just $.27 a mile. Fully allocated costs of rescues would be enormous. The point you seem to be missing is that the Coast Guard has an annual budget, which I can assure you that they spend. Now, whether some portion of the budget is used to rescue someone or to make training cruises is immaterial - the money is used. So "allocating" some portion of the Coast Guard's budget to a rescue and then saying "the rescue cost "X" dollars" is not accurate. If, for example, the C.G. is out on a "training cruise" to burn up their diesel budget (and I can assure you that the various members of the US Government do strive mightily to use ALL their budget) and diverts to rescue someone the C.G. does not immediately apply for additional budget to cover the cost of the rescue. Therefore there is not additional cost to the US Government and the Taxpayer. Bruce-in-Bangkok (Note:remove underscores from address for reply) |
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Can someone give me a timeline of his trip? Obviously he left from Belize
and headed up the Mexican coast. According to something that I read or saw, he was "forced" to pull into Mexico. When and where was this? When did he depart for the US from Mexico and/or when did he clear Isla Mujares? I fail to understand why no one seems to be asking any hard questions as to what happened here instead seems to be saying "poor Joe". Other people who have had problems and have been rescued by the CG have been (inappropriately at times) torn to shreds in this group. I'm not trying to be critical of Joe, but I certainly don't have a clear picture of the whole event. I'm a firm believer in the statement that "You can't choose the weather that you sail in, but you can choose the weather you leave in." -- Geoff |
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Do I have this right? A guy named "Joe" is out sailing with 5 tons cargo of
coffee beans? I hope he gets the boat back .. and renames her: Irony. |
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On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 08:33:14 -0600, Geoff Schultz
wrote: I'm not trying to be critical of Joe, but I certainly don't have a clear picture of the whole event. I'm a firm believer in the statement that "You can't choose the weather that you sail in, but you can choose the weather you leave in." Good questions but I'm not prepared to 2nd guess him. The forecasts that I rely on clearly showed a widespread frontal system moving into the Gulf at least 4 or 5 days in advance. That usually means strong northerlies this time of year which was confirmed by the GRIB forecasts. |
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Dave wrote:
Explain that to your wife when you buy that Ferrari. What seems to escape you is that "You've already bought the Ferrari". Only you don't drive it. DHS drives it using your money to pay for the fuel, upkeep and salaries. It doesn't sit in the garage either. They drive it until it's worn out and then go buy another using your Credit Card. |
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On Jan 2, 3:05 pm, Larry wrote:
Sad, indeed. He must have had HF/SSB aboard to call the hams, maybe on 14.300 Mhz. I wonder what he was doing out there without a 406 Mhz EPIRB? The story or video made no mention of an EPIRB alarm. Red Cloud did carry a 406 EPIRB that was activated www.rescuebeacon.biz |
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"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:06:23 -0500, wrote: I only see them training in good weather. There are reasons for that. :-) So, you're afraid to get wet. Not at all surprising. So how long have you been a twit ? at least 5 years. |
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Marc Heusser d wrote in
: If it was one without GPS it may take max 2 hours to locate it Precisely the reason those units need to be taken off the market..... Larry -- Next time some broker tells you what a great investment he's selling, ask him about Rhodium, a shiny metal used in Catalytic Converters. Jan 1st 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Rhodium $452 $1341 $3006 $5339 $6775 PER OUNCE! How much longer can we pay for new cars at this rate? Feb '97 it was $182/oz |
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Bruce said this:
If, for example, the C.G. is out on a "training cruise" to burn up their diesel budget (and I can assure you that the various members of the US Government do strive mightily to use ALL their budget) and diverts to rescue someone the C.G. does not immediately apply for additional budget to cover the cost of the rescue. Therefore there is not additional cost to the US Government and the Taxpayer. Then Dave replied: My point is that it's silly to talk about the "additional cost" as the cost of the rescue. By your reasoning the multimillion salary GM pays its CEO, as well as the costs of its production facilities, interest on its debt, salary of accountants, etc. contribute nothing to the cost of the car you buy from them, because the company would pay a CEO, hold onto the facility pay the accountants, etc. no matter how many cars it sells. The only cost of a car under that reasoning is the cost of materials and the variable hourly cost of labor producing the particular vehicle. Gummint can perhaps fool its citizens with that kind of sloppy thinking. In business it leads straight to the bankruptcy court. Hey Dave, My first semester buisness professor taught us that analogy as the erroneous argument that it is. Military organizations do not produce a product to sell. They are not in business to make a profit. They only spend money, because they are a 100-percent total-loss system. So your argument using this analogy is flawed. Red |
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On Jan 5, 10:56 pm, Marc Heusser
d wrote: In article , wrote: Red Cloud did carry a 406 EPIRB that was activated If it was one without GPS it may take max 2 hours to locate it (via SARSAT, since GEOSAR does not help locatin) - so maybe this was the reason for additionally calling via ham, and that this ermergency call arrived first. In an emergency one has to use whatever is avaiable, no regulation should forbid that. Marc -- remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail http://www.heusser.com The model EPIRB Red Cloud carried did have integral GPS www.rescuebeacon.biz |
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In article ,
Dave wrote: On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:01:28 -0500, said: I know, Charlie. When money goes out the door in business, it's called a cost. When it goes out the door in guvmint, it's called an "investment." LOL. That's also wildly incorrect. Guess you haven't been listening to all of the things the Dems want to "invest" in. Like throwing more money in the direction of the teachers' unions. I don't think that anyone in the Dem party is throwing money at the unions. Perhaps throwing money at teachers, who are vastly underpaid. |
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Jonathan Ganz wrote:
I don't think that anyone in the Dem party is throwing money at the unions. Perhaps throwing money at teachers, who are vastly underpaid. You're missing the purity of Dave's logic. In his little world, the quality of the education system is inversely proportional to the salary of teachers, ergo if we pay them nothing, we'll have the best damn education system in the world and our taxes will go down, leaving deep-thinkers like Dave with more disposable income to spend on the important things in life, like cheap beer and tickets to pro football games. |
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On 6 Jan 2008 21:44:02 -0600, Dave wrote:
In Jon's world, on the other hand, the quality of the education system is directly proportional to the money you throw in the direction of teachers. S'funny - I thought that it was a tenet of free market economics: the more valuable an occupation, the more competition to fill a slot? But I've been wrong before. Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
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In article , the_bmac wrote:
Jonathan Ganz wrote: I don't think that anyone in the Dem party is throwing money at the unions. Perhaps throwing money at teachers, who are vastly underpaid. You're missing the purity of Dave's logic. In his little world, the quality of the education system is inversely proportional to the salary of teachers, ergo if we pay them nothing, we'll have the best damn education system in the world and our taxes will go down, leaving deep-thinkers like Dave with more disposable income to spend on the important things in life, like cheap beer and tickets to pro football games. Or, maybe I didn't miss it. LOL |
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In article ,
Dave wrote: On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 21:18:02 -0500, the_bmac said: You're missing the purity of Dave's logic. In his little world, the quality of the education system is inversely proportional to the salary of teachers, ergo if we pay them nothing, we'll have the best damn education system in the world and our taxes will go down, leaving deep-thinkers like Dave with more disposable income to spend on the important things in life, like cheap beer and tickets to pro football games. In Jon's world, on the other hand, the quality of the education system is directly proportional to the money you throw in the direction of teachers. The more money we throw, the better education our kids get. Don't you see the results in test scores. (Oh, I forgot that in most states the educators made sure the state standardized tests were dumbed down enough to insure the scores would be higher.) In my world, there's a relationship between how much you pay someone and the quality of the person doing the work. |
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In article ,
Brian Whatcott wrote: On 6 Jan 2008 21:44:02 -0600, Dave wrote: In Jon's world, on the other hand, the quality of the education system is directly proportional to the money you throw in the direction of teachers. S'funny - I thought that it was a tenet of free market economics: the more valuable an occupation, the more competition to fill a slot? But I've been wrong before. Brian Whatcott Altus OK Dave doesn't actually believe in the free market. I'd suggest that he read Good Capitalism, Bad Capitalism, but it might hurt. |
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In article ,
Dave wrote: On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 01:18:16 -0000, lid (Jonathan Ganz) said: Guess you haven't been listening to all of the things the Dems want to "invest" in. Like throwing more money in the direction of the teachers' unions. I don't think that anyone in the Dem party is throwing money at the unions. Perhaps throwing money at teachers, who are vastly underpaid. And the teachers aren't "in the direction" of the teachers' unions? Good point, perhaps. Union folks frequently have their own separate agendas. No. They're represented by the union for lots of things, but no one advocated giving tax money to the union, which is what you tried to claim. As to the vastly underpaid matter, I'd say that in many cases they're paid more than their performance justifies. Perhaps, but the vast majority are underpaid and do a great job. Sorry you had some bad experiences! |
"underpaid" teachers
On Jan 6, 9:25*pm, Jere Lull wrote:
I don't know where you live, but they're paid pretty well in Philadelphia, never mind what they get in the 'burbs. "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach." Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD how about some facts................... I went back to school to get a teaching lisense K-8, self contained classroom in Oregon. I substute taught for a a year cause the republicans cut money to the schools. I finaly got a fulltime job teaching 2nd grade.My first day was August 2001. My take home after taxes, healthcare ( i paid $500/mo for a ****ty family of 3 plan , retirement (they paid 1/2), union dues $25 was............... $1745/mo take home In my contract I had to work TWO days for free. It was called a "service day." After I spent 8 hours in the classroom I spent another 1-2 hours preparing for the next day. Made for 10 hour days five days a week. Oh, except on Sunday when I put an additional 2-3 hours in getting ready for the week. I lasted two years. Never worked so hard for so little in my life. Another though............................................ .. you have blue collar, white collar, and pink collar jobs.................... The fact still remans that women make $0.72 - $0.78 to a mans dollar. Why : to quote james Brown. "its a mans world!" Free market my ass. Woman could be a nurse , secratary or teacher. So why do nurses get $25-45/ hr with sign on bonus of $5-10K and teachers get 30-35K to start? Cause nursing doesnt have a bunch of Republikans mandating ****ty wages from the state legislature. Nurses work at a for-proffit business. Teachers have to beg a repubican for money. Nurses dont. they just go to a better paying hospital. teachers cant do that when the republicans have created a state wide controlled industry. Remember.... keep big goventment off our back. well we got it in Oregon. 10 years ago we had 500 state troopers. We got less than 200 now. that will keep traffic meth off our interstate freeways....not! Yep, $1745/month sure is a lot of money for a family of three. Bob |
"underpaid" teachers
On Jan 6, 10:48*pm, WaIIy wrote:
Yep, $1745/month sure is a lot of money for a family of three. Bob Hmmm, the middle school librarian here makes $80K a year and retires at 90% salary. Christ, thats good wages! Must have a stron union and some dems hidding in the bushes. Or maybe the people in Phily value a good education for their kids, no? Anyway, if teaching is such a bad job, why did you go into it?- Hide quoted text - I didnt say it was a bad job. I really enjoyed it but just didnt like working my ass off for peanuts. Got to be practical bout this. Why did I go into it???? I enjoy kids, I have some warped since of civic service. You know, its not what your country can do for you its what you bla bla bal. I belive in DOING somthign to make our country a better place. Others just want to bitch, sit on their ass, and make the government budget smaller and call it their contribution to our country. Heck, I still might be a teacher if it payed 80K plus perks. What really burns my ass is when I read all this public school and teacher bashing from people who most likley have never spent more than a 1/2 hour in a school since they were 18 years old.......... and they have kids! They listen to Limbaug and start to parrot. And LImbaug..... whats his claim to fame???? Highschool education (self admitted poor student), drug addicted, failed marrages, no kids, cant even controll his weight. And he is an expert on public education !???!?!?! I bet that fat ass hasnt watched a teacher at work since he was bullied in highschool. And he is an epert on public education? Bob |
"underpaid" teachers
On Jan 6, 10:48*pm, WaIIy wrote:
Uhhh, you get four months off a year. I wish.............. Try this. I had a 195 day contract. The typical joe works 5days/week/year. 52 x 5 = 260 days 260 joe blow - 195 teacher = teachers get 65 days off more than joe blow. Okay in Oregon a teacher is REQUIRED to get a master degree with in five years and we are suppose to get that when?????? So the teacher spends all that time....... "four months off" which is actually only 65 days less than a 40 hr/week burger flipper, scrambling for classes. O, no university in your back yard. Thats okay you can dive a few hudnerd miles a week or abandon your family to live in a dorm and if your really lucky the school district MIGHT pay for 50% of the cost. I say, You get what you pay for. Why should anybody be a teacher when ya get **** for pay and have to listen to all the republican **** in the press. Bob --------- |
"underpaid" teachers
On Jan 6, 10:48 pm, WaIIy wrote:
Another though............................................ .. you have blue collar, white collar, and pink collar jobs.................... The fact still remans that women make $0.72 - $0.78 to a mans dollar. Why : to quote james Brown. "its a mans world!" Not true for the same job. That's a fallacy. Sorry, but go talk to the US Bureau of Labor and Statistics. Unless you believe the dems are so powerful they been dopin the stats for the last 30 years. Just another fallacious argument by Limbaugh. Teachers are a great example. Wage surveys say given everything the same a male elementary teacher makes more than a woman elementary teacher. Why....? That is where the problems start; interpreting the findings. Lots at play here. However, I got a an "incentive" step raise cause males in lower elementary are needed." Guess I had the right equipment to do the job. Wonder what that cute 24 year old girl thought when I got more bucks for the same job just cause I had a dick. Getting people to believe the crap Limbaugh (GOP) says is a pretty simply rhetorical strategy. Just look up and say, the sky is purple. When enough people say the sky is purple its true....uh, sorta. If you say something loud enough and long enough a voter will believe anything. Another good example is Environmentalist. An environmentalist is not a wako tree hugging baby dipper doper commie. But lots of republicans want you to believe that. I wonder why?? Another great way to get change (persuasion) is using inductive reasoning. That is, "you can get a person to swallow an elephant if you feed it to him one bite at a time." Bob |
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Sir Thomas of Cannondale wrote:
Do I have this right? A guy named "Joe" is out sailing with 5 tons cargo of coffee beans? Flying the flag of Java too. |
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On Jan 7, 7:31*am, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 04:38:21 -0000, (Jonathan Ganz) said: Perhaps, but the vast majority are underpaid and do a great job. Sorry you had some bad experiences! On the contrary, my own experiences have been pretty good. But that's in large part because I didn't have to put up with a totally inadequate public school system. Unfortunately, I see the results of the system too often around me, however. Ya your right. The public school system does have a hard time doing a good job.......... Garbage in ..... garbage out...... Ya get a kid that has two parents, family makes a decent wage, has heath care, no smoking in the house, kid goes to bed with a parent reading a bed time book and gets 8-10 hours sleep, has real food to eat.... hell thoes kids dont need teaching they just need a teacher to guide thme along to become an independent life long learner. If public shcools are so ****ty put your kids in a PRIVATE SCHOOL and then shell out $30-50,000/ year in tuition! YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! The private sector education guys have it right............ charge an arm and a leg and if the kid cant speak english or has a single mom that does meth with one of her boyfriends just kick the kid out. When I taught 2nd grade I had 28 kids............. 3 were white, one black, three spoke zero english. I put bilingual kids on each side of the non english kid to interpret my instructions/lessons. What third world country was this????? Three hour drive from Portland, OR. I dare you to volunteer in a public school room. Go be a BOOK BUDDY in an elementary classroom for 30 min a week. Do it for six weeks. Then lets talk. Other wise ya just blown **** out your ass. |
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"Dave" wrote in message
... On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 04:35:24 -0000, lid (Jonathan Ganz) said: In my world, there's a relationship between how much you pay someone and the quality of the person doing the work. So how is it that with the massive increases in the amounts being spent on education the quality of the output has continued to decline? I didn't realize we gave the teacher's unions an increase in pay! -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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"Dave" wrote in message
... On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 04:38:21 -0000, lid (Jonathan Ganz) said: Perhaps, but the vast majority are underpaid and do a great job. Sorry you had some bad experiences! On the contrary, my own experiences have been pretty good. But that's in large part because I didn't have to put up with a totally inadequate public school system. Unfortunately, I see the results of the system too often around me, however. School system doesn't equal teachers in total. There are lots of problems with the school system. The teachers are generally underpaid and not typically part of the problem. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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"Dave" wrote in message
... On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:52:24 -0800, "Capt. JG" said: I didn't realize we gave the teacher's unions an increase in pay! Ya oughta expand your reading horizons. You're not gonna find it on the moveon.org web site. http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...eene052203.asp So you're claiming that the union was paid more? Or, perhaps you're complaining about school lunch programs. Ummm... I think you need to re-read your article. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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"Dave" wrote in message
... On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:56:23 -0800, "Capt. JG" said: School system doesn't equal teachers in total. There are lots of problems with the school system. The teachers are generally underpaid and not typically part of the problem. Hey, I know that refrain: "It's the other guy's fault." ?? Who's the "other guy" in what I wrote? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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"Dave" wrote in message
... On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:32:35 -0800, "Capt. JG" said: School system doesn't equal teachers in total. There are lots of problems with the school system. The teachers are generally underpaid and not typically part of the problem. Hey, I know that refrain: "It's the other guy's fault." ?? Who's the "other guy" in what I wrote? You tell me. Who is causing the "lots of problems?" Taxpayers not throwing enough money? The structure of the program as screwed up over the many decades. A "who" doesn't have to be the cause of a problem. Taxpayers throwing money is also incorrect... it's the evil Democrats, *except* this administration and the previous Congress have been the absolute worst... throwing money away like drunken sailors. Vote for change. Vote for Huckabee or Obama. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:25:20 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote: Snippo Vote for Huckabee or Obama. This has **** all to do with boats or cruising. Kindly send it someplace else. Casady |
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