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On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 02:33:44 -0500, Red said:
My first semester buisness professor taught us that analogy as the erroneous argument that it is. Military organizations do not produce a product to sell. They are not in business to make a profit. They only spend money, because they are a 100-percent total-loss system. So your argument using this analogy is flawed. And Dave responded thusly: Glad to hear that the cost of those soldiers, ships and planes is nothing, Red. Now can I get a check back from the gummint for all that money I sent them to pay for them? I'm a bit confused by your response Dave. I was referring to your use of an analogy to compare what is two completely different things. Your response makes no sense. Business is in business to make a profit, offset by expenses. Government does not make profit, it isn't designed to make profit, and no idiot we have elected wants it to make a profit. Comparing business to military expenditures is a falacious argument. Red |
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J Ganz wrote:
I don't think that anyone in the Dem party is throwing money at the unions. Perhaps throwing money at teachers, who are vastly underpaid. This is of course so innacurate as to be ludicrous. There are some places in the U.S. where the teachers are paid lower than in other places and that is mostly in rural areas. Around here the average salery is over $100,000 for tenured teachers, not to mention the quite lucrative benefits package and three months off in summer along with several paid vacations during the year. In studies of the nation's profession's saleries, teachers ranked up near the top as a nationwide average. Are some underpaid? Sure. But most are not. Red |
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On 2008-01-07 01:01:32 -0500, Bob said:
I finaly got a fulltime job teaching 2nd grade.My first day was August 2001. My take home after taxes, healthcare ( i paid $500/mo for a ****ty family of 3 plan , retirement (they paid 1/2), union dues $25 was............... $1745/mo take home And I started at $9 an hour --gross, with no benefits-- as a programmer, admittedly a few years earlier. In any new career, you often start at the bottom and pay your dues.... Main problem I see at the level you're talking about is that there has historically been a glut of teachers who are willing to start work for those low wages. Of late, there have been fewer so the legislatures loosened the requirements to keep the labor force cheap. Oh, and my current wife taught for 20+ years at the university level before moving down. We eventually decided that the price of re-entry here just wasn't worth it, as the most she could make as an adjunct was 20k. Teachers have to beg a repubican for money. Nurses dont. they just go to a better paying hospital. teachers cant do that when the republicans have created a state wide controlled industry. Must be different out there, as teachers regularly transfer to make more around here. The state has very little control over individual districts unless the legislature passes a bill specific to a district, and then it's time-limited. Those willing and able to put up with the first years have a pretty sweet deal. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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If you want to throw barbs at one another, please resort to e-mail so that
the rest of us don't have to watch your childish behavior. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
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"Richard Casady" wrote in message
... On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:25:20 -0800, "Capt. JG" wrote: Snippo Vote for Huckabee or Obama. This has **** all to do with boats or cruising. Kindly send it someplace else. Casady Dave wants change. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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"Red" wrote in message
... J Ganz wrote: I don't think that anyone in the Dem party is throwing money at the unions. Perhaps throwing money at teachers, who are vastly underpaid. This is of course so innacurate as to be ludicrous. There are some places in the U.S. where the teachers are paid lower than in other places and that is mostly in rural areas. Around here the average salery is over $100,000 for tenured teachers, not to mention the quite lucrative benefits package and three months off in summer along with several paid vacations during the year. In studies of the nation's profession's saleries, teachers ranked up near the top as a nationwide average. Are some underpaid? Sure. But most are not. Red Not sure where "here" is, but the average salary is $47,602 in 2005. Maybe you're thinking of college level? Certainly K-12 are not paid $100K, at least not many. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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Capt. JG wrote: "Red" wrote in message ... J Ganz wrote: I don't think that anyone in the Dem party is throwing money at the unions. Perhaps throwing money at teachers, who are vastly underpaid. This is of course so innacurate as to be ludicrous. There are some places in the U.S. where the teachers are paid lower than in other places and that is mostly in rural areas. Around here the average salery is over $100,000 for tenured teachers, not to mention the quite lucrative benefits package and three months off in summer along with several paid vacations during the year. In studies of the nation's profession's saleries, teachers ranked up near the top as a nationwide average. Are some underpaid? Sure. But most are not. Red Not sure where "here" is, but the average salary is $47,602 in 2005. Maybe you're thinking of college level? Certainly K-12 are not paid $100K, at least not many. Not sure what a "salery" is, but for teacher salaries, a quick check on payscale.com shows the median salary for entry level teachers is $33.5K, while the median for 20+years experience is $56.8K. A *far* cry from 6 figures! A masters+ and 20+ years experience making $56K doesn't sound anywhere near "near the top" to me. Keith |
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"Dave" wrote in message
... On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:34:33 -0800, "Capt. JG" said: Not sure where "here" is, but the average salary is $47,602 in 2005. And what is the average salary in the U.S. for all college graduates, Jon? No idea. Are you a college grad? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:19:14 -0500, Red said:
I'm a bit confused by your response Dave. Along with a response that Dave has no rational answer for, and so he cut it out to make the following pseudo response... You got that right. Well Dave at least we can all see you really don't have a clue about what you were arguing about. Red |
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"Dave" wrote in message
... On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:15:29 -0800, "Capt. JG" said: Not sure where "here" is, but the average salary is $47,602 in 2005. And what is the average salary in the U.S. for all college graduates, Jon? No idea. You could look it up. Might be highly relevant to whether a particular group of college graduates is underpaid. Here's a hint: it's less than $47,602. Your group! Sorry! -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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Dave wrote in
: On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:15:29 -0800, "Capt. JG" said: Not sure where "here" is, but the average salary is $47,602 in 2005. And what is the average salary in the U.S. for all college graduates, Jon? No idea. You could look it up. Might be highly relevant to whether a particular group of college graduates is underpaid. Here's a hint: it's less than $47,602. Have you guys got average salary stats back to before 9/11? I'm carefully tracking the devaluation of the Federal Reserve private bankcorp's picodollars against the steady value of gold. My contention is that we're losing our asses as wages are WAY behind the devaluation of what they're paying us with, devalued paper notes. Gold was FALLING prior to 9/11 at around $US300/oz, not good for international bankers. Today, we set another new record at a hair over $US890/oz! The last trade on Saturday was $US859.30/oz. We lost over $30 SINCE SATURDAY! It used to be $30/week, not per day! http://kitco.com/charts/livegold.html $47,602/$890 = 53.48 oz gold per year...as of tonight. If we knew what it was back in 2000, we could see how bad the wages are falling behind in actual VALUE. My Social Security Retirement starts Jan 18th. I was hoping my $877/month was going to be MORE than one oz/month, but they ruined those plans today. SS payments will barely keep you housed in a trailer on a rented lot, reasonably warm and fed, now. It's ability to do that drops with each passing HOUR as the bank notes they pay it off in become more worthless, daily. It's not the oil company's fault. They're just trying to stay even with the bank note devaluation NOONE seems worried about....as the men behind the curtain walk off with the world's wealth. Larry -- As the price of Monopoly money rises, at some point it will equal Federal Reserve Private Bank fake banknotes in value! |
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"Dave" wrote in message ... On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 04:35:24 -0000, lid (Jonathan Ganz) said: In my world, there's a relationship between how much you pay someone and the quality of the person doing the work. So how is it that with the massive increases in the amounts being spent on education the quality of the output has continued to decline? PARENTS ! |
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On 2008-01-08 12:13:02 -0500, Dave said:
Mark Twain was a wit. You rise, on occasion, to barely half that at best. An utterly pedestrian effort, Charlie. Surely you can do better than that. Frankly, I found that to be a bit more than pedestrian. 'Twas a well aimed shot in my book. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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On Jan 2, 2:05*pm, Larry wrote:
jeff wrote in news:G4ydnf64SN- : Joe didn't post here often, but for those that know him from ASA: http://www.khou.com/news/local/stori...grescue.c061dc.... A sad day - at least they are all safe. Sad, indeed. *He must have had HF/SSB aboard to call the hams, maybe on14.300Mhz. *I wonder what he was doing out there without a 406 Mhz EPIRB? * The story or video made no mention of an EPIRB alarm. Indeed, after calling for hours on 2182 with zero responce, I got Rooney on 14.300. We listen daily to the cruisng net for weather updates ect..ect.. Later called a passing ship and my friend meet me on another channel to have a pow wow with noaa and USCG SAR. They requested I activate the EPIRB when we decided it was time to go. I had a 406 that also broadcasted at 121 at the same time. Skipper says thanks Joe Sounded like the mainmast must have busted loose and was tearing the cabin roof apart. Glad they're all safe....including the dog. Larry -- Next time some broker tells you what a great investment he's selling, ask him about Rhodium, a shiny metal used in Catalytic Converters. Jan 1st * 2004 * 2005 * 2006 * 2007 * 2008 Rhodium *$452 * $1341 *$3006 *$5339 *$6775 PER OUNCE! How much longer can we pay for new cars at this rate? Feb '97 it was $182/oz |
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All good points, Larry. For what it is worth a few nationalities
still keep continuous radio watches on the official marine SSB voice distress frequencies: 2182 4125 6215 8291 12290 16420 With those you should at least be able to pick up Taupo Maritime Radio/ ZLM, New Zealand if you're in the South Pacific... I don't really know if anyone else is still listening. There are equivalent DSC frequencies for those so equipped. Also, there's usually a HAM on 14.300 who knows how to deal with a priority call. You don't need to be a HAM if you've got priority traffic -- don't let the radio cops scare you away! -- Tom. |
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In article
, " wrote: All good points, Larry. For what it is worth a few nationalities still keep continuous radio watches on the official marine SSB voice distress frequencies: From USCG (http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/MARCOMMS/...mdss_faq.htm): .... Can ships fitted for Sea Area A1 meet GMDSS carriage requirements if they stay within 20 nm of the U.S. shore?* Can ships fitted for Sea Area A2 meet the requirements of they stay within 70-100 nm of the U.S. shore?** Is the Gulf of Mexico a Sea Area A2? No.* GMDSS Sea Areas A1 and A2 are defined by shore radio coverage, not by distance offshore.* The Gulf of Mexico should never be a Sea Area A2 because of 2 MHz propagation limitations.* Except for some very limited MF DSC coverage around our Communications Stations, the U.S. currently has no operational Sea Areas A1 or A2.* Until these areas are in place, ships must fit for GMDSS Area A3, or request a waiver from the FCC.* We plan to publish expected Sea Area A2 coverage charts by summer 2001.* For more information, see the GMDSS Area webpage. .... GMDSS ships will be allowed to cease guarding VHF channel 16 on February 1, 2005, and have already ceased watchkeeping on 2182 kHz.* Is that safe?* How will ships not equipped with GMDSS (i.e. digital selective calling) be able to contact such ships in an emergency? That question was raised at the International Maritime Organization.* It was to prevent this interoperability problem that the date GMDSS ships may cease to guard VHF channel 16 was deferred six years, until 2005.* DSC should be common on new radios, and presumably, on ships not subject to GMDSS, by that date.* 2182 kHz watchkeeping is another matter.* In that case, an interoperability problem already exists.* Most SOLAS-regulated ships guarding 2182kHz do so using an autoalarm receiver, which can only be triggered by an autoalarm signal transmitted on 2182 kHz.* Autoalarm receivers and signal generators are not new;SOLAS-regulated ships have been using them for decades.* Since few ships not subject to GMDSS carry an autoalarm generator, they could not initiate contact on 2182 kHz with most SOLAS ships.* Extending the 2182 kHz watchkeeping date on those ships would benefit no one.** For that reason IMO decided to allow GMDSS-regulated ships to discontinue watchkeeping on 2182 kHz on February 1, 1999, as originally scheduled. *The U.S. Coast Guard will, of course, continue a listening watch, with a live watchstander, on both VHF channel 16 and 2182 kHz.* .... So it looks like propagation was the limit on 2182. 2182 has been phased out under GMDSS as watch channel, replaced by DSC frequencies. Too bad in this case. With a new transmitter the DSC distress and urgency calls are quite easy, and it is viable to send them in multiple bands in a few minutes. Most likely activating the EPIRB earlier would have been ok too. Anyway, it's always easy from a safe place - wish you'll never need it again. Marc -- remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail http://www.heusser.com |
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On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:24:18 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote: Indeed, after calling for hours on 2182 with zero responce, I got Rooney on 14.300. Although 2182 is still an "official" distress frequency it is largely ineffective for several reasons. Your chances of actually reaching USCG are much higher on 4125 or 6215 . Both of these simplex calling/distress frequencies are monitored 24/7 by USCG and they generally have much greater range than 2182. |
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Marc Heusser d wrote in
: Most likely activating the EPIRB earlier would have been ok too. Joe should have pushed the button on the 406 EPIRB......FIRST. Other distress comms would have been just to hear a friendly voice. Too bad the stupid asses who designed EPIRB made it one way to maximize profits on the units (no receivers to buy). There SHOULD have been a display next to the button that lit up with "We hear you and are on our way" to reassure the distressed persons the message has been received. Pressing the button and praying in such stress is really unnecessary. The solution is actually quite simple. They already have a GPS receiver aboard. If we FORCE the military bureaucrats to interface with the DoT bureaucrats, the return message could easily be uploaded to the GPS to light that light. Government bureaucrats need to be constantly reminded "The Bureau", whatever bureau they work for, isn't a separate planet. Larry -- As the price of Monopoly money rises, at some point it will equal Federal Reserve Private Bank fake banknotes in value! |
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In article ,
Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:24:18 -0800 (PST), Joe wrote: Indeed, after calling for hours on 2182 with zero responce, I got Rooney on 14.300. Although 2182 is still an "official" distress frequency it is largely ineffective for several reasons. Your chances of actually reaching USCG are much higher on 4125 or 6215 . Both of these simplex calling/distress frequencies are monitored 24/7 by USCG and they generally have much greater range than 2182. THE way is a DSC Distress call according to GMDSS on 2'187.5 kHz (voice on 2'182.0 kHz) 4'207.5 kHz (voice on 4'125.0 kHz) 6'312.0 kHz (voice on 6'215.0 kHz) 8'414.5 kHz (voice on 8'291.0 kHz) 12'577.0 kHz (voice on 12'290.0 kHz) 16'804.5 kHz (voice on 16'420.0 kHz) especially on 8'414.5 kHz. Any of these will sound an alarm on any DSC receiver within range, and store your identity (MMSI), time and position - if you had the time to enter it the reason for distress as well - and you will get an acknowledgment from any receiving coast station. A call is sent out 5 times with all the details within 35 seconds, and wll be repeated automatically every about 4 minutes until acknowledgement arrives. Marc -- remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail http://www.heusser.com |
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On Jan 11, 12:32*am, " wrote:
All good points, Larry. *For what it is worth a few nationalities still keep continuous radio watches on the official marine SSB voice distress frequencies: 2182 4125 6215 8291 12290 16420 Tried everyone one the list above and even a few restricted military freq. Keep in mind this was 03:00 to 07:30 New Years day. Can you think of a worse time to get military personnel on the horn? ;0) Then I called on 14.300 to the mariners net and found a familiar voice of a guy named Rooney. A top notch fellow who had control of the net at the time. He worked with another fellow who called the 8th district in New Orleans (uGH). At the time I was just advising them of our position and drift speed and direction and requesting that they standby in case RedCloud started drifting towards any oil platforms and we requested they provide us updated weather information. I also requested a tow. Was refused the tow, even after calling many commerical towing outfits, they would not come out in the weather. The USCG had a 87 fter on the Sabine that could have been out in 8 hours. My brother an X coasties said the "roter heads" wanted all the glory. I'd never say anything like that having not served in the USCG and working on many many rough weather rescues closely with the air group like my brother did. I know if I had an 87 fter like this a meer 8 hours away http://www.uscg.mil/d8/cgcHeron/img/cgcHeron.jpg and were in command, I could have taken RedCloud under tow in the conditions we were in, it would have been a hell of a ride, but I would have been chomping at the bit to go. I'm grafeful for all the assistance the USCG gave, but IMO if they wanted to, they could have worked with me and saved my home and business. All my career I have been lucky enough to only assit the USCG, and have always been egar to do so. Well that's my rant..I have no one to blame but myself. I put my vessel in a bad spot at a bad time and got what I had coming. If you head offshore and you get any assitance at all....you need to feel damn lucky for it. Joe With those you should at least be able to pick up Taupo Maritime Radio/ ZLM, New Zealand if you're in the South Pacific... *I don't really know if anyone else is still listening. *There are equivalent DSC frequencies for those so equipped. *Also, there's usually a HAM on 14.300 who knows how to deal with a priority call. *You don't need to be a HAM if you've got priority traffic -- don't let the radio cops scare you away! -- Tom. |
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"Joe" wrote in message ... snipped. I know if I had an 87 fter like this a meer 8 hours away http://www.uscg.mil/d8/cgcHeron/img/cgcHeron.jpg and were in command, I could have taken RedCloud under tow in the conditions we were in, it would have been a hell of a ride, but I would have been chomping at the bit to go. I'm grafeful for all the assistance the USCG gave, but IMO if they wanted to, they could have worked with me and saved my home and business. All my career I have been lucky enough to only assit the USCG, and have always been egar to do so. Well that's my rant..I have no one to blame but myself. I put my vessel in a bad spot at a bad time and got what I had coming. If you head offshore and you get any assitance at all....you need to feel damn lucky for it. Joe, that is really tough and I feel for you. But since your steering quadrant was broken there is not much else you could have done in seas like we saw on the video if you could not steer. It really is bad luck that the broken link pierced your fine steel hull and presumably that is what let her sink rather than any leakage into the coachhouse. Best wishes. With those you should at least be able to pick up Taupo Maritime Radio/ ZLM, New Zealand if you're in the South Pacific... I don't really know if anyone else is still listening. There are equivalent DSC frequencies for those so equipped. Also, there's usually a HAM on 14.300 who knows how to deal with a priority call. You don't need to be a HAM if you've got priority traffic -- don't let the radio cops scare you away! -- Tom. |
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On Jan 11, 6:36 am, Joe wrote:
On Jan 11, 12:32 am, " wrote: ... Tried everyone one the list above and even a few restricted military freq. Keep in mind this was 03:00 to 07:30 New Years day. Can you think of a worse time to get military personnel on the horn? ;0) ... No, I can't, and I'm sad for your loss and impressed that you're taking it so philosophically. The GG seems to be very reluctant to tow. I guess the good news is that the ham service showed up well. -- Tom. NH7SV |
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