Offshore cruiser questions
 

Perhaps I
just enjoy learning.

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn in 30
seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

I have taken classes through the Power Squadron
and believe I have gotten something out of them. Same with a Coast
Guard Aux course, J World, Colgate's Offshore Sailing School and
anything else I can find to sign up for.

Why? You have nothing better to do, and you like the coffee?

Offshore cruiser questions
 

but if you think boats are expensive...


**Definitely** understand that. [grin]

Offshore cruiser questions
 

but if you think boats are expensive...


**Definitely** understand that. [grin]

Offshore cruiser questions
 

x-no-archive:yes


(JAXAshby) wrote:

Well, then, certain attributes suggest themselves: lines *already* led
back to the cockpit--maybe even a center cockpit, which is arguably
better for women due to the better visibility

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?! bull**** that is.

What is wrong with better visibilty?

I prefer a center cockpit because of

a) better visibility forward (not aft because we have so much stuff on
the aft deck that we can't see aft very well but YMWV on that). We
still have a blind spot under the bow, but I have much less problem
seeing and the blind spot is less for me in a center cockpit. Except
for entering harbors etc, and even for anchoring I prefer to sit and
steer. Or rather - for most of the time I prefer to sit and let the
autopilot steer.

b) Less motion in the cockpit because it's closer to the center of the
boat.

I see nothing wrong with all lines led back to the cockpit - seems
sensible to me. If you are single handing you don't want to be having
to go up on deck to do something to the sails.

I do think someone who is doing a passage needs to have a wind vane
for steering rather than, or in addition to an autopilot. We don't
have one, but we don't do passages so we just use the autopilot. If
you have one, but sure it is big enough to handle the boat.



grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

Offshore cruiser questions
 

x-no-archive:yes


(JAXAshby) wrote:

Well, then, certain attributes suggest themselves: lines *already* led
back to the cockpit--maybe even a center cockpit, which is arguably
better for women due to the better visibility

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?! bull**** that is.

What is wrong with better visibilty?

I prefer a center cockpit because of

a) better visibility forward (not aft because we have so much stuff on
the aft deck that we can't see aft very well but YMWV on that). We
still have a blind spot under the bow, but I have much less problem
seeing and the blind spot is less for me in a center cockpit. Except
for entering harbors etc, and even for anchoring I prefer to sit and
steer. Or rather - for most of the time I prefer to sit and let the
autopilot steer.

b) Less motion in the cockpit because it's closer to the center of the
boat.

I see nothing wrong with all lines led back to the cockpit - seems
sensible to me. If you are single handing you don't want to be having
to go up on deck to do something to the sails.

I do think someone who is doing a passage needs to have a wind vane
for steering rather than, or in addition to an autopilot. We don't
have one, but we don't do passages so we just use the autopilot. If
you have one, but sure it is big enough to handle the boat.



grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

Offshore cruiser questions
 

x-no-archive:yes


(JAXAshby) wrote:

Perhaps I
just enjoy learning.

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn in 30
seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

Even in cases where I thought I knew everything about the subject,
and/or where the instructor was crappy, I've always learned something
with every course I've taken. Unless you contend that you know
everything, there's always more to learn.

I have taken classes through the Power Squadron
and believe I have gotten something out of them. Same with a Coast
Guard Aux course, J World, Colgate's Offshore Sailing School and
anything else I can find to sign up for.

Why? You have nothing better to do, and you like the coffee?

I took sailing courses, and USCGX courses, and I had Bob take them
with me. He admitted that he learned some stuff too, even though he's
been boating and sailing for years, and was in the Navy for 20 years.
If you pay attention, and actively engage your brain, there will be
something to learn.

grandma Rosalie

Offshore cruiser questions
 

x-no-archive:yes


(JAXAshby) wrote:

Perhaps I
just enjoy learning.

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn in 30
seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

Even in cases where I thought I knew everything about the subject,
and/or where the instructor was crappy, I've always learned something
with every course I've taken. Unless you contend that you know
everything, there's always more to learn.

I have taken classes through the Power Squadron
and believe I have gotten something out of them. Same with a Coast
Guard Aux course, J World, Colgate's Offshore Sailing School and
anything else I can find to sign up for.

Why? You have nothing better to do, and you like the coffee?

I took sailing courses, and USCGX courses, and I had Bob take them
with me. He admitted that he learned some stuff too, even though he's
been boating and sailing for years, and was in the Navy for 20 years.
If you pay attention, and actively engage your brain, there will be
something to learn.

grandma Rosalie

Offshore cruiser questions
 

a.) it was condescending to women,

b.) all lines led aft both dramaticly increases friction and the chance of
failure in high wind conditions, it also makes one psychologically unable to go
forward under conditions when one HAS to go forward, and

c.) the center cockpit vs aft cockpit is a far more serious discussion that to
say it is better for the "little lady to see over".


The reason people like cc boats is that they get a full width aft stateroom.
To get that aft stateroom they get a lower performing boat, and a boat that
usually can not have an effective windwave set up. Wendy has stated she wants
an ocean going boat to go ocean going (trying to cross serious bluewater
without a windvane is kinda dumb, unless one is motoring the entire way. Also,
electric auto pilots have serious reliability issues, burn LOTS of hard to
replace amps, and don't steer well as the winds pick up, just the area where
wind vanes come into their own). She also wants something under 40 feet (ALL
cc boats under 40 ar Ugh Lee, and really poor performers to boot), and perhaps
as small as 30 feet (only really weird duck boats have cc's under 35 feet).

(JAXAshby) wrote:

Well, then, certain attributes suggest themselves: lines *already* led
back to the cockpit--maybe even a center cockpit, which is arguably
better for women due to the better visibility

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?! bull**** that is.

What is wrong with better visibilty?

I prefer a center cockpit because of

a) better visibility forward (not aft because we have so much stuff on
the aft deck that we can't see aft very well but YMWV on that). We
still have a blind spot under the bow, but I have much less problem
seeing and the blind spot is less for me in a center cockpit. Except
for entering harbors etc, and even for anchoring I prefer to sit and
steer. Or rather - for most of the time I prefer to sit and let the
autopilot steer.

b) Less motion in the cockpit because it's closer to the center of the
boat.

I see nothing wrong with all lines led back to the cockpit - seems
sensible to me. If you are single handing you don't want to be having
to go up on deck to do something to the sails.

I do think someone who is doing a passage needs to have a wind vane
for steering rather than, or in addition to an autopilot. We don't
have one, but we don't do passages so we just use the autopilot. If
you have one, but sure it is big enough to handle the boat.



grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

Offshore cruiser questions
 

a.) it was condescending to women,

b.) all lines led aft both dramaticly increases friction and the chance of
failure in high wind conditions, it also makes one psychologically unable to go
forward under conditions when one HAS to go forward, and

c.) the center cockpit vs aft cockpit is a far more serious discussion that to
say it is better for the "little lady to see over".


The reason people like cc boats is that they get a full width aft stateroom.
To get that aft stateroom they get a lower performing boat, and a boat that
usually can not have an effective windwave set up. Wendy has stated she wants
an ocean going boat to go ocean going (trying to cross serious bluewater
without a windvane is kinda dumb, unless one is motoring the entire way. Also,
electric auto pilots have serious reliability issues, burn LOTS of hard to
replace amps, and don't steer well as the winds pick up, just the area where
wind vanes come into their own). She also wants something under 40 feet (ALL
cc boats under 40 ar Ugh Lee, and really poor performers to boot), and perhaps
as small as 30 feet (only really weird duck boats have cc's under 35 feet).

(JAXAshby) wrote:

Well, then, certain attributes suggest themselves: lines *already* led
back to the cockpit--maybe even a center cockpit, which is arguably
better for women due to the better visibility

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?! bull**** that is.

What is wrong with better visibilty?

I prefer a center cockpit because of

a) better visibility forward (not aft because we have so much stuff on
the aft deck that we can't see aft very well but YMWV on that). We
still have a blind spot under the bow, but I have much less problem
seeing and the blind spot is less for me in a center cockpit. Except
for entering harbors etc, and even for anchoring I prefer to sit and
steer. Or rather - for most of the time I prefer to sit and let the
autopilot steer.

b) Less motion in the cockpit because it's closer to the center of the
boat.

I see nothing wrong with all lines led back to the cockpit - seems
sensible to me. If you are single handing you don't want to be having
to go up on deck to do something to the sails.

I do think someone who is doing a passage needs to have a wind vane
for steering rather than, or in addition to an autopilot. We don't
have one, but we don't do passages so we just use the autopilot. If
you have one, but sure it is big enough to handle the boat.



grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

Offshore cruiser questions
 

Rosie, the problem is not so much learning stuff (and their is damned little to
learn there) but learning stuff that just ain't so, plus it is one awful lot of
time and effort spent to learn how to put on a PFD. There is absolutely
nothing to be learned there in many, many, many hours of classes that can't be
learned in 10 minutes from the appropriate book.

But they serve coffee and wear nifty blue uniforms.

(JAXAshby) wrote:

Perhaps I
just enjoy learning.

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn in 30
seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

Even in cases where I thought I knew everything about the subject,
and/or where the instructor was crappy, I've always learned something
with every course I've taken. Unless you contend that you know
everything, there's always more to learn.

I have taken classes through the Power Squadron
and believe I have gotten something out of them. Same with a Coast
Guard Aux course, J World, Colgate's Offshore Sailing School and
anything else I can find to sign up for.

Why? You have nothing better to do, and you like the coffee?

I took sailing courses, and USCGX courses, and I had Bob take them
with me. He admitted that he learned some stuff too, even though he's
been boating and sailing for years, and was in the Navy for 20 years.
If you pay attention, and actively engage your brain, there will be
something to learn.

grandma Rosalie

Offshore cruiser questions
 

Rosie, the problem is not so much learning stuff (and their is damned little to
learn there) but learning stuff that just ain't so, plus it is one awful lot of
time and effort spent to learn how to put on a PFD. There is absolutely
nothing to be learned there in many, many, many hours of classes that can't be
learned in 10 minutes from the appropriate book.

But they serve coffee and wear nifty blue uniforms.

(JAXAshby) wrote:

Perhaps I
just enjoy learning.

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn in 30
seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

Even in cases where I thought I knew everything about the subject,
and/or where the instructor was crappy, I've always learned something
with every course I've taken. Unless you contend that you know
everything, there's always more to learn.

I have taken classes through the Power Squadron
and believe I have gotten something out of them. Same with a Coast
Guard Aux course, J World, Colgate's Offshore Sailing School and
anything else I can find to sign up for.

Why? You have nothing better to do, and you like the coffee?

I took sailing courses, and USCGX courses, and I had Bob take them
with me. He admitted that he learned some stuff too, even though he's
been boating and sailing for years, and was in the Navy for 20 years.
If you pay attention, and actively engage your brain, there will be
something to learn.

grandma Rosalie

Offshore cruiser questions
 

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:00:28 GMT, Rosalie B.
wrote:
y

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?! bull**** that is.

What is wrong with better visibilty?

I prefer a center cockpit because of

a) better visibility forward (not aft because we have so much stuff on
the aft deck that we can't see aft very well but YMWV on that). We
still have a blind spot under the bow, but I have much less problem
seeing and the blind spot is less for me in a center cockpit. Except
for entering harbors etc, and even for anchoring I prefer to sit and
steer. Or rather - for most of the time I prefer to sit and let the
autopilot steer.

b) Less motion in the cockpit because it's closer to the center of the
boat.

That's what more than one female passagemaker has said to me regarding
visibility. Some people, male and female, find it a drier ride as
well. I've tried both and it's not a make or break thing for me, but I
like the fact that a center cockput vessel usually features good
access to the engine compartment from one or both sides, and
frequently is a little "room" of its own in some surprisingly small
hulls. Even 4 x 4 feet makes a big difference in access.

The motion thing is a bonus.

Now, JAX, if you *spoke* to real live women sailors (instead of just
smarming them on line), you might have employed your usual rapier wit
to better effect. As it is, you stand contradicted...again.

Some days, you seem to prove the only "vessel" you are familiar with
is the one that throbs constantly in your forehead.

Offshore cruiser questions
 

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:00:28 GMT, Rosalie B.
wrote:
y

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?! bull**** that is.

What is wrong with better visibilty?

I prefer a center cockpit because of

a) better visibility forward (not aft because we have so much stuff on
the aft deck that we can't see aft very well but YMWV on that). We
still have a blind spot under the bow, but I have much less problem
seeing and the blind spot is less for me in a center cockpit. Except
for entering harbors etc, and even for anchoring I prefer to sit and
steer. Or rather - for most of the time I prefer to sit and let the
autopilot steer.

b) Less motion in the cockpit because it's closer to the center of the
boat.

That's what more than one female passagemaker has said to me regarding
visibility. Some people, male and female, find it a drier ride as
well. I've tried both and it's not a make or break thing for me, but I
like the fact that a center cockput vessel usually features good
access to the engine compartment from one or both sides, and
frequently is a little "room" of its own in some surprisingly small
hulls. Even 4 x 4 feet makes a big difference in access.

The motion thing is a bonus.

Now, JAX, if you *spoke* to real live women sailors (instead of just
smarming them on line), you might have employed your usual rapier wit
to better effect. As it is, you stand contradicted...again.

Some days, you seem to prove the only "vessel" you are familiar with
is the one that throbs constantly in your forehead.

Offshore cruiser questions
 

x-no-archive:yes


(JAXAshby) wrote:

Rosie, the problem is not so much learning stuff (and their is damned little to
learn there) but learning stuff that just ain't so, plus it is one awful lot of

There are lots of teachers in lots of places that are teaching lots of
stuff that 'ain't so'. It's a hazard of life, and not particular to
the USCGX or the USPS or any other venue. One of my children's 5th
grade teachers taught them that the blood in the veins is actually
bright blue like in the illustrations. And some songs teach that a
square is not a rectangle.

One of the things that one does is to integrate what one already knows
into what they are telling you and if it doesn't compute, you question
them until they admit defeat!!! (or throw you out of class - I had one
teacher in a course I took as an adult that said I was every teacher's
nightmare)

time and effort spent to learn how to put on a PFD. There is absolutely
nothing to be learned there in many, many, many hours of classes that can't be
learned in 10 minutes from the appropriate book.

I just don't agree with that - I don't think I learned how to put on a
PFD and I did learn lots of other stuff. And they didn't serve coffee
(which i don't drink so I didn't miss it). Of course I was taking
USCGX classes and not USPS classes, but I don't think they are that
different.

But they serve coffee and wear nifty blue uniforms.

(JAXAshby) wrote:

Perhaps I
just enjoy learning.

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn in 30
seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

Even in cases where I thought I knew everything about the subject,
and/or where the instructor was crappy, I've always learned something
with every course I've taken. Unless you contend that you know
everything, there's always more to learn.

I have taken classes through the Power Squadron
and believe I have gotten something out of them. Same with a Coast
Guard Aux course, J World, Colgate's Offshore Sailing School and
anything else I can find to sign up for.

Why? You have nothing better to do, and you like the coffee?

I took sailing courses, and USCGX courses, and I had Bob take them
with me. He admitted that he learned some stuff too, even though he's
been boating and sailing for years, and was in the Navy for 20 years.
If you pay attention, and actively engage your brain, there will be
something to learn.

grandma Rosalie








grandma Rosalie

Offshore cruiser questions
 

x-no-archive:yes


(JAXAshby) wrote:

Rosie, the problem is not so much learning stuff (and their is damned little to
learn there) but learning stuff that just ain't so, plus it is one awful lot of

There are lots of teachers in lots of places that are teaching lots of
stuff that 'ain't so'. It's a hazard of life, and not particular to
the USCGX or the USPS or any other venue. One of my children's 5th
grade teachers taught them that the blood in the veins is actually
bright blue like in the illustrations. And some songs teach that a
square is not a rectangle.

One of the things that one does is to integrate what one already knows
into what they are telling you and if it doesn't compute, you question
them until they admit defeat!!! (or throw you out of class - I had one
teacher in a course I took as an adult that said I was every teacher's
nightmare)

time and effort spent to learn how to put on a PFD. There is absolutely
nothing to be learned there in many, many, many hours of classes that can't be
learned in 10 minutes from the appropriate book.

I just don't agree with that - I don't think I learned how to put on a
PFD and I did learn lots of other stuff. And they didn't serve coffee
(which i don't drink so I didn't miss it). Of course I was taking
USCGX classes and not USPS classes, but I don't think they are that
different.

But they serve coffee and wear nifty blue uniforms.

(JAXAshby) wrote:

Perhaps I
just enjoy learning.

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn in 30
seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

Even in cases where I thought I knew everything about the subject,
and/or where the instructor was crappy, I've always learned something
with every course I've taken. Unless you contend that you know
everything, there's always more to learn.

I have taken classes through the Power Squadron
and believe I have gotten something out of them. Same with a Coast
Guard Aux course, J World, Colgate's Offshore Sailing School and
anything else I can find to sign up for.

Why? You have nothing better to do, and you like the coffee?

I took sailing courses, and USCGX courses, and I had Bob take them
with me. He admitted that he learned some stuff too, even though he's
been boating and sailing for years, and was in the Navy for 20 years.
If you pay attention, and actively engage your brain, there will be
something to learn.

grandma Rosalie








grandma Rosalie

Offshore cruiser questions
 

As good as a Tayana 37 is, it is only considered good for the physically fit
and strong to single hand.

Most definitely disagree with that .... but for a reason that perhaps
you havent thought of: A TY37 has a relatively high CG thus a long
roll period. I personally now like a long roll period as I dont get so
beat up as when on a 'quick period' boat. I find I puke less when
slow rolling than snap rolling. ..... also much less tiring on long
distance travel.

I really dont understand the physically fit part as with good gear: BIG
winches, slick blocks and higher tech cordage its a breeze to handle,
comfy in a real blow, etc. Hell, with a boomed and vanged staysail,
she's a total self-tacker ---- dont even have to throw a sheet to
tack/gybe. If the genoa is on - just a single set of sheets to handle.
I race mine and find it almost boring in comparison to a fly-weight
'cork'. The only downside that I find to a TY37 is the huge sails
that when need to be removed/replaced ..... are too damn heavy (and
the ultralight super high tech fabric is 4 to 5 times as expensive).
..... lift 1000 sq. ft. set of 9oz. sails across a pitching deck
sometime and youll agree. Otherwise, IMHO - a TY 37 is an 'easy' boat
to sail (inertia/momentum)..

My wife has severe osteoporosis as a result of heavy chemotherapy, and
lots of 'missing' muscles .... with the proper gear she finds NO
problem singlehanding in most conditions - probably due to such a
stable platform. We used to campaign an ILYA scow .... she wont even
get on it anymore ... too physically demanding/tiring. SHE picked this
boat because of its seakindliness and easy handling (MY boat is still
the scow).

If I was in the market for a newer boat, Id definitely consider a
fractional rigged sloop - not as versatile as a cutter but easier to
power-up/power down.

Offshore cruiser questions
 

As good as a Tayana 37 is, it is only considered good for the physically fit
and strong to single hand.

Most definitely disagree with that .... but for a reason that perhaps
you havent thought of: A TY37 has a relatively high CG thus a long
roll period. I personally now like a long roll period as I dont get so
beat up as when on a 'quick period' boat. I find I puke less when
slow rolling than snap rolling. ..... also much less tiring on long
distance travel.

I really dont understand the physically fit part as with good gear: BIG
winches, slick blocks and higher tech cordage its a breeze to handle,
comfy in a real blow, etc. Hell, with a boomed and vanged staysail,
she's a total self-tacker ---- dont even have to throw a sheet to
tack/gybe. If the genoa is on - just a single set of sheets to handle.
I race mine and find it almost boring in comparison to a fly-weight
'cork'. The only downside that I find to a TY37 is the huge sails
that when need to be removed/replaced ..... are too damn heavy (and
the ultralight super high tech fabric is 4 to 5 times as expensive).
..... lift 1000 sq. ft. set of 9oz. sails across a pitching deck
sometime and youll agree. Otherwise, IMHO - a TY 37 is an 'easy' boat
to sail (inertia/momentum)..

My wife has severe osteoporosis as a result of heavy chemotherapy, and
lots of 'missing' muscles .... with the proper gear she finds NO
problem singlehanding in most conditions - probably due to such a
stable platform. We used to campaign an ILYA scow .... she wont even
get on it anymore ... too physically demanding/tiring. SHE picked this
boat because of its seakindliness and easy handling (MY boat is still
the scow).

If I was in the market for a newer boat, Id definitely consider a
fractional rigged sloop - not as versatile as a cutter but easier to
power-up/power down.

Offshore cruiser questions
 

In article , JAXAshby
wrote:

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn
in 30 seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
....... but the statement rings true !!!!!!!


GOOD ONE!!!

Offshore cruiser questions
 

In article , JAXAshby
wrote:

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn
in 30 seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
....... but the statement rings true !!!!!!!


GOOD ONE!!!

Offshore cruiser questions
 

thus a long
roll period. I personally now like a long roll period as I dont get so
beat up as when on a 'quick period' boat. I find I puke less when
slow rolling than snap rolling.

I understand the US Navy spent some time and effort to see why sailors get
seasick, and how to stop or reduce it. I understand about 1/3 get sick from a
quick motion, 1/3 from a long motion, and the rest from a combination of the
two.

In addition, not only is a 600 sq ft main sail 3x the weight of a 200 ft sail,
it is also 3x time sq rt 3 more effort to tighten in against the wind. 3x
because it is 3x bigger, and sq rt 3 times because the circle you have to pull
in against gets bigger.

Still, a T-37 catches my attention.

Offshore cruiser questions
 

thus a long
roll period. I personally now like a long roll period as I dont get so
beat up as when on a 'quick period' boat. I find I puke less when
slow rolling than snap rolling.

I understand the US Navy spent some time and effort to see why sailors get
seasick, and how to stop or reduce it. I understand about 1/3 get sick from a
quick motion, 1/3 from a long motion, and the rest from a combination of the
two.

In addition, not only is a 600 sq ft main sail 3x the weight of a 200 ft sail,
it is also 3x time sq rt 3 more effort to tighten in against the wind. 3x
because it is 3x bigger, and sq rt 3 times because the circle you have to pull
in against gets bigger.

Still, a T-37 catches my attention.

Offshore cruiser questions
 

On 30 Jan 2004 16:30:40 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

a.) it was condescending to women,

Only in your fevered mind, apparently.

b.) all lines led aft both dramaticly increases friction and the chance of
failure in high wind conditions, it also makes one psychologically unable to go
forward under conditions when one HAS to go forward, and

It can, but usually doesn't unless there are a number of unnecessary
turns. Internal halyards aren't usually carried away by the wind, and
if it's that high, tearing out your Spinlock is the least of your
worries.

If what you were saying had much validity, we wouldn't have roller
furling. Almost all cruisers do. I don't, and thus have that "real
world" experience you so rarely believe others except yourself to
possess.

c.) the center cockpit vs aft cockpit is a far more serious discussion that to
say it is better for the "little lady to see over".

Well, it's also better for the little man, I suppose, but my five foot
tall wife is quite happy on the tiller of my 34' C&C design in 35
knots. Other stronger, taller women and any number of men wouldn't be.
The preference is as much personal as practical. These days, Mini Me
can drive a Volvo 60 with the right equipment...so physicality is no
obstacle. Attitude and comfort levels are. Ellen MacArthur is five
two, after all, and she's probably in the top five ocean racer list.


The reason people like cc boats is that they get a full width aft stateroom.

That's *one* reason.

To get that aft stateroom they get a lower performing boat, and a boat that
usually can not have an effective windwave set up.

I'll have to tell my center-cockpit ketch owning buddy to return that
Voyager windvane, then. He obviously doesn't know when he's being
steered effectively.

Wendy has stated she wants
an ocean going boat to go ocean going (trying to cross serious bluewater
without a windvane is kinda dumb, unless one is motoring the entire way. Also,
electric auto pilots have serious reliability issues, burn LOTS of hard to
replace amps, and don't steer well as the winds pick up, just the area where
wind vanes come into their own).

I actually agree with you, JAX. Windvane and autopilot fill each
others' gaps, as last month's Cruising World article putting the two
devices head-to-head in ocean conditions demonstrated. Where I differ
is in positing that self-steering and a center-cockpit boat are
necessarily opposed. They aren't.

She also wants something under 40 feet (ALL
cc boats under 40 ar Ugh Lee, and really poor performers to boot), and perhaps
as small as 30 feet (only really weird duck boats have cc's under 35 feet).

ALL of them, eh? That sailing simulator you own is some piece of work,
JAX. Anyway, thanks for being the gallant arbiter of insult to females
everywhere. I'm sure you are in many prayers tonight.

Offshore cruiser questions
 

On 30 Jan 2004 16:30:40 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

a.) it was condescending to women,

Only in your fevered mind, apparently.

b.) all lines led aft both dramaticly increases friction and the chance of
failure in high wind conditions, it also makes one psychologically unable to go
forward under conditions when one HAS to go forward, and

It can, but usually doesn't unless there are a number of unnecessary
turns. Internal halyards aren't usually carried away by the wind, and
if it's that high, tearing out your Spinlock is the least of your
worries.

If what you were saying had much validity, we wouldn't have roller
furling. Almost all cruisers do. I don't, and thus have that "real
world" experience you so rarely believe others except yourself to
possess.

c.) the center cockpit vs aft cockpit is a far more serious discussion that to
say it is better for the "little lady to see over".

Well, it's also better for the little man, I suppose, but my five foot
tall wife is quite happy on the tiller of my 34' C&C design in 35
knots. Other stronger, taller women and any number of men wouldn't be.
The preference is as much personal as practical. These days, Mini Me
can drive a Volvo 60 with the right equipment...so physicality is no
obstacle. Attitude and comfort levels are. Ellen MacArthur is five
two, after all, and she's probably in the top five ocean racer list.


The reason people like cc boats is that they get a full width aft stateroom.

That's *one* reason.

To get that aft stateroom they get a lower performing boat, and a boat that
usually can not have an effective windwave set up.

I'll have to tell my center-cockpit ketch owning buddy to return that
Voyager windvane, then. He obviously doesn't know when he's being
steered effectively.

Wendy has stated she wants
an ocean going boat to go ocean going (trying to cross serious bluewater
without a windvane is kinda dumb, unless one is motoring the entire way. Also,
electric auto pilots have serious reliability issues, burn LOTS of hard to
replace amps, and don't steer well as the winds pick up, just the area where
wind vanes come into their own).

I actually agree with you, JAX. Windvane and autopilot fill each
others' gaps, as last month's Cruising World article putting the two
devices head-to-head in ocean conditions demonstrated. Where I differ
is in positing that self-steering and a center-cockpit boat are
necessarily opposed. They aren't.

She also wants something under 40 feet (ALL
cc boats under 40 ar Ugh Lee, and really poor performers to boot), and perhaps
as small as 30 feet (only really weird duck boats have cc's under 35 feet).

ALL of them, eh? That sailing simulator you own is some piece of work,
JAX. Anyway, thanks for being the gallant arbiter of insult to females
everywhere. I'm sure you are in many prayers tonight.

Offshore cruiser questions
 

x-no-archive:yes


Rich Hampel wrote:

In article , JAXAshby
wrote:

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn
in 30 seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

I don't frequent West Marine. Actually I almost never shop. I hate
shopping and since I have arthritis in my back which makes standing
painful (although I can walk OK) I wouldn't be in a store anyway
unless I had something that I urgently needed and Bob wasn't available
to get it for me.

Nor do I find any particular fun in talking to pimply faced or even
non-pimply faced kids. I'd rather sit in a classroom and harass a
teacherg

ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
...... but the statement rings true !!!!!!!


GOOD ONE!!!

grandma Rosalie

Offshore cruiser questions
 

x-no-archive:yes


Rich Hampel wrote:

In article , JAXAshby
wrote:

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn
in 30 seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

I don't frequent West Marine. Actually I almost never shop. I hate
shopping and since I have arthritis in my back which makes standing
painful (although I can walk OK) I wouldn't be in a store anyway
unless I had something that I urgently needed and Bob wasn't available
to get it for me.

Nor do I find any particular fun in talking to pimply faced or even
non-pimply faced kids. I'd rather sit in a classroom and harass a
teacherg

ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
...... but the statement rings true !!!!!!!


GOOD ONE!!!

grandma Rosalie

Offshore cruiser questions
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
I understand the US Navy spent some time and effort to see why sailors get
seasick, and how to stop or reduce it. I understand about 1/3 get sick
from a
quick motion, 1/3 from a long motion, and the rest from a combination of
the
two.

I've seen people get sick going from a dock to a tied-up boat- that's the
extreme. I don't get sick, and I know I am fortunate. Seasickness is
misery for those who get it. Dunno why people do, but I am convinced (with
no factual evidence to back up my convictions) that a lot of the cause is in
the afflicted's mind. When I was five or so my family returned from Europe
on the SS United States (I just dated myself :). I remember throwing up all
the way across. First time I went out on a military ship I threw up once;
I'm convinced it was the fruit juice sloshing around in my stomach. Since
then it's never happened- 30+ foot seas on ships, and 15 foot seas on large
boats; have had 42 foot power boats coming off the tops of waves and
smashing into the troughs with nary a quease at all. I'm lucky, I know. I
always felt bad for people who get sick; it is the ultimate misery.

Wendy

Offshore cruiser questions
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
I understand the US Navy spent some time and effort to see why sailors get
seasick, and how to stop or reduce it. I understand about 1/3 get sick
from a
quick motion, 1/3 from a long motion, and the rest from a combination of
the
two.

I've seen people get sick going from a dock to a tied-up boat- that's the
extreme. I don't get sick, and I know I am fortunate. Seasickness is
misery for those who get it. Dunno why people do, but I am convinced (with
no factual evidence to back up my convictions) that a lot of the cause is in
the afflicted's mind. When I was five or so my family returned from Europe
on the SS United States (I just dated myself :). I remember throwing up all
the way across. First time I went out on a military ship I threw up once;
I'm convinced it was the fruit juice sloshing around in my stomach. Since
then it's never happened- 30+ foot seas on ships, and 15 foot seas on large
boats; have had 42 foot power boats coming off the tops of waves and
smashing into the troughs with nary a quease at all. I'm lucky, I know. I
always felt bad for people who get sick; it is the ultimate misery.

Wendy

Offshore cruiser questions
 

hey, rhys, NO one suggested you were forced to buy the "Japanese Standard" in
condoms. You wanted a center cockpit boat, you got one. Live with it. Motor
with it. Enjoy the large aft stateroom/small salon. It was your choice.

Wendy, however, was asking about a serious bluewater boat she could singlehand.
Different criteria she has than you had. If she had said she wanted to motor
down/up the ICW twice a year, "sail" over to the Bahamas, tie to a dock for
extended periods of time, drink iced drinks starting at 3 in the afternoon and
running til sundown people would have given her different advise. But Wendy
didn't ask for that type of boat, she asked for a genuine bluewater sailor 30'
40' she could singlehand.

I say, Good for Wendy.

btw, rhys, have *you* ever purposely spun an airplane?(indeed, do you even know
how?) Wendy has, for the fun of it. She will do just fine as a sailor.

(JAXAshby) wrote:

a.) it was condescending to women,

Only in your fevered mind, apparently.

b.) all lines led aft both dramaticly increases friction and the chance of
failure in high wind conditions, it also makes one psychologically unable to
go
forward under conditions when one HAS to go forward, and

It can, but usually doesn't unless there are a number of unnecessary
turns. Internal halyards aren't usually carried away by the wind, and
if it's that high, tearing out your Spinlock is the least of your
worries.

If what you were saying had much validity, we wouldn't have roller
furling. Almost all cruisers do. I don't, and thus have that "real
world" experience you so rarely believe others except yourself to
possess.

c.) the center cockpit vs aft cockpit is a far more serious discussion that
to
say it is better for the "little lady to see over".

Well, it's also better for the little man, I suppose, but my five foot
tall wife is quite happy on the tiller of my 34' C&C design in 35
knots. Other stronger, taller women and any number of men wouldn't be.
The preference is as much personal as practical. These days, Mini Me
can drive a Volvo 60 with the right equipment...so physicality is no
obstacle. Attitude and comfort levels are. Ellen MacArthur is five
two, after all, and she's probably in the top five ocean racer list.


The reason people like cc boats is that they get a full width aft stateroom.


That's *one* reason.

To get that aft stateroom they get a lower performing boat, and a boat that
usually can not have an effective windwave set up.

I'll have to tell my center-cockpit ketch owning buddy to return that
Voyager windvane, then. He obviously doesn't know when he's being
steered effectively.

Wendy has stated she wants
an ocean going boat to go ocean going (trying to cross serious bluewater
without a windvane is kinda dumb, unless one is motoring the entire way.
Also,
electric auto pilots have serious reliability issues, burn LOTS of hard to
replace amps, and don't steer well as the winds pick up, just the area where
wind vanes come into their own).

I actually agree with you, JAX. Windvane and autopilot fill each
others' gaps, as last month's Cruising World article putting the two
devices head-to-head in ocean conditions demonstrated. Where I differ
is in positing that self-steering and a center-cockpit boat are
necessarily opposed. They aren't.

She also wants something under 40 feet (ALL
cc boats under 40 ar Ugh Lee, and really poor performers to boot), and
perhaps
as small as 30 feet (only really weird duck boats have cc's under 35 feet).

ALL of them, eh? That sailing simulator you own is some piece of work,
JAX. Anyway, thanks for being the gallant arbiter of insult to females
everywhere. I'm sure you are in many prayers tonight.

Offshore cruiser questions
 

hey, rhys, NO one suggested you were forced to buy the "Japanese Standard" in
condoms. You wanted a center cockpit boat, you got one. Live with it. Motor
with it. Enjoy the large aft stateroom/small salon. It was your choice.

Wendy, however, was asking about a serious bluewater boat she could singlehand.
Different criteria she has than you had. If she had said she wanted to motor
down/up the ICW twice a year, "sail" over to the Bahamas, tie to a dock for
extended periods of time, drink iced drinks starting at 3 in the afternoon and
running til sundown people would have given her different advise. But Wendy
didn't ask for that type of boat, she asked for a genuine bluewater sailor 30'
40' she could singlehand.

I say, Good for Wendy.

btw, rhys, have *you* ever purposely spun an airplane?(indeed, do you even know
how?) Wendy has, for the fun of it. She will do just fine as a sailor.

(JAXAshby) wrote:

a.) it was condescending to women,

Only in your fevered mind, apparently.

b.) all lines led aft both dramaticly increases friction and the chance of
failure in high wind conditions, it also makes one psychologically unable to
go
forward under conditions when one HAS to go forward, and

It can, but usually doesn't unless there are a number of unnecessary
turns. Internal halyards aren't usually carried away by the wind, and
if it's that high, tearing out your Spinlock is the least of your
worries.

If what you were saying had much validity, we wouldn't have roller
furling. Almost all cruisers do. I don't, and thus have that "real
world" experience you so rarely believe others except yourself to
possess.

c.) the center cockpit vs aft cockpit is a far more serious discussion that
to
say it is better for the "little lady to see over".

Well, it's also better for the little man, I suppose, but my five foot
tall wife is quite happy on the tiller of my 34' C&C design in 35
knots. Other stronger, taller women and any number of men wouldn't be.
The preference is as much personal as practical. These days, Mini Me
can drive a Volvo 60 with the right equipment...so physicality is no
obstacle. Attitude and comfort levels are. Ellen MacArthur is five
two, after all, and she's probably in the top five ocean racer list.


The reason people like cc boats is that they get a full width aft stateroom.


That's *one* reason.

To get that aft stateroom they get a lower performing boat, and a boat that
usually can not have an effective windwave set up.

I'll have to tell my center-cockpit ketch owning buddy to return that
Voyager windvane, then. He obviously doesn't know when he's being
steered effectively.

Wendy has stated she wants
an ocean going boat to go ocean going (trying to cross serious bluewater
without a windvane is kinda dumb, unless one is motoring the entire way.
Also,
electric auto pilots have serious reliability issues, burn LOTS of hard to
replace amps, and don't steer well as the winds pick up, just the area where
wind vanes come into their own).

I actually agree with you, JAX. Windvane and autopilot fill each
others' gaps, as last month's Cruising World article putting the two
devices head-to-head in ocean conditions demonstrated. Where I differ
is in positing that self-steering and a center-cockpit boat are
necessarily opposed. They aren't.

She also wants something under 40 feet (ALL
cc boats under 40 ar Ugh Lee, and really poor performers to boot), and
perhaps
as small as 30 feet (only really weird duck boats have cc's under 35 feet).

ALL of them, eh? That sailing simulator you own is some piece of work,
JAX. Anyway, thanks for being the gallant arbiter of insult to females
everywhere. I'm sure you are in many prayers tonight.

Offshore cruiser questions
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
btw, rhys, have *you* ever purposely spun an airplane?(indeed, do you even
know
how?) Wendy has, for the fun of it. She will do just fine as a sailor.

Flying is flying, and sailing is sailing. I think they are two different
and distinct skill sets, and proficiency in one will not necessarily
indicate proficiency in the other, navigation notwithsanding. While events
occur much more rapidly in an airplane than in a boat, what is more
important is that the dimensional and situational aspects are completely
different, and thus require different skill sets. I can fly. I can't sail-
haven't got a clue what to do when decision time rolls around as regards
reefing, what sail to set, etc. The fact that I was able to learn how to
fly indicates that I might be able to learn how to sail. No more, no less.

Wendy

Offshore cruiser questions
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
btw, rhys, have *you* ever purposely spun an airplane?(indeed, do you even
know
how?) Wendy has, for the fun of it. She will do just fine as a sailor.

Flying is flying, and sailing is sailing. I think they are two different
and distinct skill sets, and proficiency in one will not necessarily
indicate proficiency in the other, navigation notwithsanding. While events
occur much more rapidly in an airplane than in a boat, what is more
important is that the dimensional and situational aspects are completely
different, and thus require different skill sets. I can fly. I can't sail-
haven't got a clue what to do when decision time rolls around as regards
reefing, what sail to set, etc. The fact that I was able to learn how to
fly indicates that I might be able to learn how to sail. No more, no less.

Wendy

Offshore cruiser questions
 

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:18:13 GMT, Rosalie B.
wrote:


There are lots of teachers in lots of places that are teaching lots of
stuff that 'ain't so'. It's a hazard of life, and not particular to
the USCGX or the USPS or any other venue. One of my children's 5th
grade teachers taught them that the blood in the veins is actually
bright blue like in the illustrations. And some songs teach that a
square is not a rectangle.

One of the things that one does is to integrate what one already knows
into what they are telling you and if it doesn't compute, you question
them until they admit defeat!!! (or throw you out of class - I had one
teacher in a course I took as an adult that said I was every teacher's
nightmare)


I took a CGAUX course in the late 1970s, when I had been sailing for
15 years. I learned quite a bit. I had previously taken a Coastal
Navigation course at the American Museum of Nat Hist. I got a second
instructor because the class was oversubscribed, and I got taught some
that wasn't so.

However, by that time I could tell. The text was Duttons.

I joined the auxiliary and taught until this year, when I retired. The
requirements added on by Homeland Security were getting to be a bit
much.

I never got a uniform.

The Aux courses, and the similar USPS courses, teach far more than
many people know who buy a boat and go. Especially with motor boats,
but also with club racing sailboats.

In all the time I taught, Nobody (except me :-) ever aced the test.
Even my wife got one question wrong.

Still, such a course mainly exposes you to a series of topics that
anyone should know a lot more about, but it also guides the student
toward further learning.

The problem of people teaching things that aren't so, or are
oversimplified enough to be misleading, is everywhere.It is
exacerbated by volunteer instructors. But it isn't bad enough to make
the courses worthless.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

Offshore cruiser questions
 

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:18:13 GMT, Rosalie B.
wrote:


There are lots of teachers in lots of places that are teaching lots of
stuff that 'ain't so'. It's a hazard of life, and not particular to
the USCGX or the USPS or any other venue. One of my children's 5th
grade teachers taught them that the blood in the veins is actually
bright blue like in the illustrations. And some songs teach that a
square is not a rectangle.

One of the things that one does is to integrate what one already knows
into what they are telling you and if it doesn't compute, you question
them until they admit defeat!!! (or throw you out of class - I had one
teacher in a course I took as an adult that said I was every teacher's
nightmare)


I took a CGAUX course in the late 1970s, when I had been sailing for
15 years. I learned quite a bit. I had previously taken a Coastal
Navigation course at the American Museum of Nat Hist. I got a second
instructor because the class was oversubscribed, and I got taught some
that wasn't so.

However, by that time I could tell. The text was Duttons.

I joined the auxiliary and taught until this year, when I retired. The
requirements added on by Homeland Security were getting to be a bit
much.

I never got a uniform.

The Aux courses, and the similar USPS courses, teach far more than
many people know who buy a boat and go. Especially with motor boats,
but also with club racing sailboats.

In all the time I taught, Nobody (except me :-) ever aced the test.
Even my wife got one question wrong.

Still, such a course mainly exposes you to a series of topics that
anyone should know a lot more about, but it also guides the student
toward further learning.

The problem of people teaching things that aren't so, or are
oversimplified enough to be misleading, is everywhere.It is
exacerbated by volunteer instructors. But it isn't bad enough to make
the courses worthless.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

Offshore cruiser questions
 

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 03:32:13 GMT, "Wendy"
wrote:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
btw, rhys, have *you* ever purposely spun an airplane?(indeed, do you even
know
how?) Wendy has, for the fun of it. She will do just fine as a sailor.

Flying is flying, and sailing is sailing. I think they are two different
and distinct skill sets, and proficiency in one will not necessarily
indicate proficiency in the other, navigation notwithsanding. While events
occur much more rapidly in an airplane than in a boat, what is more
important is that the dimensional and situational aspects are completely
different, and thus require different skill sets. I can fly. I can't sail-
haven't got a clue what to do when decision time rolls around as regards
reefing, what sail to set, etc. The fact that I was able to learn how to
fly indicates that I might be able to learn how to sail. No more, no less.

You will be able to learn to sail. It is flying (gliding) at the
boundary between two fluids, with foils scaled to fit the fluid. But
Please!! learn to sail before you start worrying about what kind of
boat you want.

You will learn to sail fastest in a boat barely big enough to hold
you. That is because you will feel the effect of everything you do
very soon.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

Offshore cruiser questions
 

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 03:32:13 GMT, "Wendy"
wrote:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
btw, rhys, have *you* ever purposely spun an airplane?(indeed, do you even
know
how?) Wendy has, for the fun of it. She will do just fine as a sailor.

Flying is flying, and sailing is sailing. I think they are two different
and distinct skill sets, and proficiency in one will not necessarily
indicate proficiency in the other, navigation notwithsanding. While events
occur much more rapidly in an airplane than in a boat, what is more
important is that the dimensional and situational aspects are completely
different, and thus require different skill sets. I can fly. I can't sail-
haven't got a clue what to do when decision time rolls around as regards
reefing, what sail to set, etc. The fact that I was able to learn how to
fly indicates that I might be able to learn how to sail. No more, no less.

You will be able to learn to sail. It is flying (gliding) at the
boundary between two fluids, with foils scaled to fit the fluid. But
Please!! learn to sail before you start worrying about what kind of
boat you want.

You will learn to sail fastest in a boat barely big enough to hold
you. That is because you will feel the effect of everything you do
very soon.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

Offshore cruiser questions
 

"Wendy" wrote in message
vers.com...
Hi-

I'm new to this group, and while I have done some archive digging I have a
few questions I was hoping I might get some answers to. Specifically, I
am
interested in a sailboat in the 35'-40' range that is suitable for serious
offshore work to include transatlantic crossings. The boat should be easy
to sail, obviously well-built, preferably sloop-rigged, and (here's the
catch!) around $80,000 or so. I would live aboard the boat- I'm single
with
no kids- while building up a cruising kitty. I am going to look at a 1990
34' Pacific Seacraft this weekend; at $99,000 it is more than I would like
to pay but perhaps it's negotiable. There is also a 1985 Cheoy Lee
Pedrick
36 (yes, I know about the teak decks) at $60,000 that has caught my eye.
Obviously one gets what one pays for, and the Seacraft is no doubt the
better boat, but is the Cheoy Lee suitable for serious passages? I know
Westsail is a definite possibility, but what other boats should I consider
based on my plans and price range?

http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising

John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of
boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with
most of his choices and comments.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

Offshore cruiser questions
 

"Wendy" wrote in message
vers.com...
Hi-

I'm new to this group, and while I have done some archive digging I have a
few questions I was hoping I might get some answers to. Specifically, I
am
interested in a sailboat in the 35'-40' range that is suitable for serious
offshore work to include transatlantic crossings. The boat should be easy
to sail, obviously well-built, preferably sloop-rigged, and (here's the
catch!) around $80,000 or so. I would live aboard the boat- I'm single
with
no kids- while building up a cruising kitty. I am going to look at a 1990
34' Pacific Seacraft this weekend; at $99,000 it is more than I would like
to pay but perhaps it's negotiable. There is also a 1985 Cheoy Lee
Pedrick
36 (yes, I know about the teak decks) at $60,000 that has caught my eye.
Obviously one gets what one pays for, and the Seacraft is no doubt the
better boat, but is the Cheoy Lee suitable for serious passages? I know
Westsail is a definite possibility, but what other boats should I consider
based on my plans and price range?

http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising

John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of
boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with
most of his choices and comments.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

Offshore cruiser questions
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
hey, rhys, NO one suggested you were forced to buy the "Japanese Standard"
in
condoms. You wanted a center cockpit boat, you got one. Live with it.
Motor
with it. Enjoy the large aft stateroom/small salon. It was your choice.

Small point, but rhys doesn't have a centre cockpit boat and didn't say he
did. He does have an Ontario Viking 33, an older C&C design with an aft
cockpit. He did say he has a friend with a centre cockpit. I suppose I'm
about to get flamed for pointing out the obvious...
--
Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
Cape Breton Island, Canada
kenheaton AT ess wye dee DOT eastlink DOT ca

Offshore cruiser questions
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
hey, rhys, NO one suggested you were forced to buy the "Japanese Standard"
in
condoms. You wanted a center cockpit boat, you got one. Live with it.
Motor
with it. Enjoy the large aft stateroom/small salon. It was your choice.

Small point, but rhys doesn't have a centre cockpit boat and didn't say he
did. He does have an Ontario Viking 33, an older C&C design with an aft
cockpit. He did say he has a friend with a centre cockpit. I suppose I'm
about to get flamed for pointing out the obvious...
--
Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
Cape Breton Island, Canada
kenheaton AT ess wye dee DOT eastlink DOT ca

Offshore cruiser questions
 

"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message
...

You will learn to sail fastest in a boat barely big enough to hold
you. That is because you will feel the effect of everything you do
very soon.

Yah, I've got a 17' Hobie Cat now- very fast, very twitchy. It's the sport
model, with no jib, but it's loads of fun. I've learned a lot on it ("how
to upright your catmaran" was the first lesson :) I'd just like to step up
to something a bit more serious.

Wendy