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#141
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Offshore cruiser questions
This article is copied from the Lat. 38 magazine letters section of this
January, and is worth reading. Simply stated, the type of boat that will suit you best will be obvious to you after you experience more sailing. Although the article is tailored to the West Coast, I'm sure that similar opportunities exist where you live. http://www.latitude38.com/letters/200401.htm COULD I GO CRUISING BY THE END OF THE YEAR? Ahoy. I wish to purchase a bluewater cruising boat and sail her to Easter Island by way of the Galapagos. One small detail - I've never sailed before. It's also December. I'm looking for help in how to best attack this goal - apart from waiting until spring. What sort of vessel am I looking for? My budget is limited to just over $50,000 to go to sea. Something says ketch, for they have smaller sails per given sail area, which suggests easier handling, and the mizzen would appear to be valuable in heavy weather. Are these suppositions correct, and are they important? I understand already that I'm talking a large displacement/length ratio for a bluewater cruiser, and therefore it will be slow, but, of course, I want the room. I hope to get my speed from having the longest waterline within my budget. Comparatively, if I buy a cheap vessel in poor condition and spend a fortune to have it professionally refitted, would I be better off than with a newer and more expensive boat? A more simple question; Do boats just go to utter rot, and cheap is cheap? I have read the Handbook of Sailing. Recognizing the limitations of what can be learned from a book, it appears rather simple in principle. Children can sail, after all. Is this a skill one can teach oneself, or are qualified lessons the only sensible way to learn? When it comes to the time frame, I have a substantial leg up with respect to navigation and meteorology - we landlubbers have weather, too. I'm hoping to buy this vessel in early 2004, learn to sail it summer/fall 2004, and head for the southern hemisphere in early 2005. Is this wildly optimistic? I'm a bright lad, but wonder if a feller can learn to sail well enough for bluewater in a single year? I do not plan to go alone, although not necessarily with crew more experienced than I. Considering logistics, regulations and so forth, what time frame would be realistic for me? I think you get my drift, which is that I currently know just enough to be lost with all hands. Please toss me some suggestions, including, if you must, evaluations of my sanity. TIA Silverhawk TIA - If you have passion, at least average intelligence, and $50,000, there's no reason you can't safely cruise to Mexico this fall and the South Pacific early next year. Lots of folks have learned to sail and bought and prepared a boat in such a time span. Take it from someone who has never taken a sailing lesson, the most important thing you can do is take sailing lessons rather than try to teach yourself or learn haphazardly from friends. However, we might suggest waiting until March so you'll be able to learn in reliably strong winds. In addition to the basic classes you might take on the Bay - a great place to learn - you should also sign up for one or more three-day offshore adventures to Catalina or the Channel Islands. This will not be money thrown away, but rather a good investment in your future cruising pleasure. Come the third week in March, you should fly down to Puerto Vallarta for the Banderas Bay Regatta. There are three days of fun racing, so if you play your cards right, you'll be able to crew on three entirely different kinds of cruising boats. In addition, you'll be able to walk the docks and see hundreds of other boats that have been cruised to Mexico, and talk with their owners. If you want, you could easily get a crew position on a boat going up to La Paz or down to Acapulco. As soon as the Beer Can Races start in April, you should participate as frequently as possible as crew. Yes, we know you're not interested in racing, but that's not the point. Your goal should be to observe others having a great time with their boats while maneuvering at high speed in close quarters, and to sail on as many different types of boats as possible. When the Master Mariners Regatta rolls around on Memorial Day, make sure you get a spot as crew for that event, too. During the race, observe how the various kinds of rigs perform in different conditions. By June, you could have finished several basic sailing courses, been out sailing at least 50 times, been offshore a couple of days, and sailed on scores of different boats. By this time you'll have started to develop quite a bit of confidence, as well as a good idea of what kind of boat appeals to you - and it might be something entirely different than what appeals to you now. By the end of July or August, you should be able to find a decently-equipped boat that easily fits into your budget. We suggest that you avoid complicated fixer-uppers, because you don't know enough about boats at this time to properly evaluate them. It would be better for you to get a simple boat with gear that works. Once you buy your boat, sail her three or four times a week on San Francisco Bay, and at night, too. By September, cruise her down to the Channel Islands and Catalina for offshore and anchoring practice. Do the Ha-Ha at the end of October. Cruise the Sea of Cortez in November and December, and mainland Mexico from December to March - not forgetting the Banderas Bay Regatta in March. The first week in April, head off to the Galapagos, French Polynesia or wherever. The only thing preventing you - or any other person with $50,000 - from following this plan is a lack of desire. |
#142
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Offshore cruiser questions
Rosalie B. wrote: Nor do I find any particular fun in talking to pimply faced or even non-pimply faced kids. I'd rather sit in a classroom and harass a teacherg It's not the pimples I find off-putting, it's the studs and other metal objects. sigh Keeps me out of all kinds of stores. dv |
#143
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Offshore cruiser questions
Rosalie B. wrote: Nor do I find any particular fun in talking to pimply faced or even non-pimply faced kids. I'd rather sit in a classroom and harass a teacherg It's not the pimples I find off-putting, it's the studs and other metal objects. sigh Keeps me out of all kinds of stores. dv |
#144
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Offshore cruiser questions
x-no-archive:yes
Dave Skolnick wrote: Rosalie B. wrote: Nor do I find any particular fun in talking to pimply faced or even non-pimply faced kids. I'd rather sit in a classroom and harass a teacherg It's not the pimples I find off-putting, it's the studs and other metal objects. sigh Keeps me out of all kinds of stores. I find this more interesting than off-putting. Of course one of my daughters had a belly button ring, and my son had a pierced ear for awhile. Also a boat friend now has an earring and a beard and looks a bit like an old New England sailing captain. (Have you seen "Pirates of the Caribbean"?) I think piercings are pretty much not unusual for sailors. And a lot of the more esoteric piercings are not visible to normal viewers - usually only of interest at airport screening areas. grandma Rosalie |
#145
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Offshore cruiser questions
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Dave Skolnick wrote: Rosalie B. wrote: Nor do I find any particular fun in talking to pimply faced or even non-pimply faced kids. I'd rather sit in a classroom and harass a teacherg It's not the pimples I find off-putting, it's the studs and other metal objects. sigh Keeps me out of all kinds of stores. I find this more interesting than off-putting. Of course one of my daughters had a belly button ring, and my son had a pierced ear for awhile. Also a boat friend now has an earring and a beard and looks a bit like an old New England sailing captain. (Have you seen "Pirates of the Caribbean"?) I think piercings are pretty much not unusual for sailors. And a lot of the more esoteric piercings are not visible to normal viewers - usually only of interest at airport screening areas. grandma Rosalie |
#146
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Offshore cruiser questions
"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message ... On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:37:20 GMT, "Wendy" wrote: OK, but don't assume that 'more serious'='bigger.' You couldn't get much more serious than a 49er, for example (not a singlehander--I am not suggesting it for you). It is only 15 feet long. For honing sailing skills, and especially seat-of-pants instincts, a serious one-design fleet is more important than what the boat is. If there were a fleet of Europe dinghies that you could join (womens' Olympic singlehander) you could learn really fast. Everyone would help you, and you would see your progress objectively. I learned to sail in a 12' sailing skiff that was a local backyard built boat. It was very tender and if you switched your gum to the other side of your mouth, you end up swimming. In righting the boat you remembered what you did wrong and didn't do that again. It was suggested to sail a Europe and along with that I would pick the Sunfish, Laser, or a Force 5 as a learning tool. Everything there can be applied to a large boat. Leanne s/v Fundy |
#147
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Offshore cruiser questions
"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message ... On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:37:20 GMT, "Wendy" wrote: OK, but don't assume that 'more serious'='bigger.' You couldn't get much more serious than a 49er, for example (not a singlehander--I am not suggesting it for you). It is only 15 feet long. For honing sailing skills, and especially seat-of-pants instincts, a serious one-design fleet is more important than what the boat is. If there were a fleet of Europe dinghies that you could join (womens' Olympic singlehander) you could learn really fast. Everyone would help you, and you would see your progress objectively. I learned to sail in a 12' sailing skiff that was a local backyard built boat. It was very tender and if you switched your gum to the other side of your mouth, you end up swimming. In righting the boat you remembered what you did wrong and didn't do that again. It was suggested to sail a Europe and along with that I would pick the Sunfish, Laser, or a Force 5 as a learning tool. Everything there can be applied to a large boat. Leanne s/v Fundy |
#148
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Offshore cruiser questions
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey, *I* have a Porta-Bote, and LIKE it. {grin}
No, The Tayana is not the ideal boat for everybody (shhhhh, don't let the those on the Tayana listserver know I said that). And your points are accurate. It is a bit more tender than the "perfect" boat, but under sail, I'd have to disagree with you about it being rolly (though under power, you're right). Under sail, it finds an angle of heel and just locks into it. We still get the for and aft rocking and vertical heave, but almost no roll component of motion. Also, with it's full (cutaway forefoot) keel, it tracks like it's on rails. So well that I can read while hand steering - just glance up every couple of sentences and perhaps adjust the wheel an inch, and remember to check the horizon every page or so. Since our previous boat was a Catalina 30 which required constant vigilance on the helm, I really love the way it handles. I can even let go of the helm and go up on the foredeck to fiddle with something and when I get back to the helm, we're no more than 10 degrees or so off course. The down side to this is maneuvering around the docks. In the Catalina, when we got to the slip we just turned into it. To say you have plan the same turn in the Tayana is an understatement. We've had the boat two years now, and while I've never crashed it into the dock or my dock neighbors boat (our marina only has fingers every other boat), entering the slip is something that raises my blood pressure a tad. We were also pleasantly surprised with its' performance - though you've gotta remember what our last boat was. When we've got some wind, we now comfortably cruise for hours without stressing anything at the same speeds that were "balls to the wall and pray nothing breaks" on the Catalina (7.5 - 8.5 kt). For those that enjoy this style of cruising boat, the Tayana is an excellent example of it. I could go on and on, but I'm beginning to sound like an evangelist. Almost as bad as when the subject of Porta-Botes comes up ;-) Take care - Dan JAXAshby wrote: The Tayana 37 gets some minus points for its high center of gravity, which makes it more tender, more rolly, and gives it a lower limit of positive stability. It is also not considered to be a fast as it might be. That said, it is still one beautiful boat, it is said to be the most common boat out there among cruising couples, and it is "big enough" to liveaboard for a couple without being a bear to handle under sail. It also has a shallow enough draft to "do the islands" in some of the shallower harbors, even if this reduces a bit its pointing ability. Hmmmm, Not to say that the boats on his list aren't good boats, but I dunno if I can really respect any supposedly comprehensive list of cruising boats that doesn't include the Tayana. I've never had it confirmed, but I've been told that more SSCA (Seve Seas Cruising Assoc.) member have the Tayana 37 than any other single make/model. Looking at it, I note that neither the Baba not the Union 36 are on it either. I haven't studied it in depth, but it would seem to be heavily weighted against the boats in the overbuilt/heavy end of the spectrum. Nothing wrong with this, as the list just represents his personal opinions, and he clearly states that "passage-making speed ... is now high on my personal list of priorities". This is a very valid opinion, but not the only valid one. Some of us lean more toward the rugged and comfortable with reasonable to good performance boats (like my Tayana) http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with most of his choices and comments. -- Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448 B-2/75 1977-1979 Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG |
#149
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Offshore cruiser questions
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey, *I* have a Porta-Bote, and LIKE it. {grin}
No, The Tayana is not the ideal boat for everybody (shhhhh, don't let the those on the Tayana listserver know I said that). And your points are accurate. It is a bit more tender than the "perfect" boat, but under sail, I'd have to disagree with you about it being rolly (though under power, you're right). Under sail, it finds an angle of heel and just locks into it. We still get the for and aft rocking and vertical heave, but almost no roll component of motion. Also, with it's full (cutaway forefoot) keel, it tracks like it's on rails. So well that I can read while hand steering - just glance up every couple of sentences and perhaps adjust the wheel an inch, and remember to check the horizon every page or so. Since our previous boat was a Catalina 30 which required constant vigilance on the helm, I really love the way it handles. I can even let go of the helm and go up on the foredeck to fiddle with something and when I get back to the helm, we're no more than 10 degrees or so off course. The down side to this is maneuvering around the docks. In the Catalina, when we got to the slip we just turned into it. To say you have plan the same turn in the Tayana is an understatement. We've had the boat two years now, and while I've never crashed it into the dock or my dock neighbors boat (our marina only has fingers every other boat), entering the slip is something that raises my blood pressure a tad. We were also pleasantly surprised with its' performance - though you've gotta remember what our last boat was. When we've got some wind, we now comfortably cruise for hours without stressing anything at the same speeds that were "balls to the wall and pray nothing breaks" on the Catalina (7.5 - 8.5 kt). For those that enjoy this style of cruising boat, the Tayana is an excellent example of it. I could go on and on, but I'm beginning to sound like an evangelist. Almost as bad as when the subject of Porta-Botes comes up ;-) Take care - Dan JAXAshby wrote: The Tayana 37 gets some minus points for its high center of gravity, which makes it more tender, more rolly, and gives it a lower limit of positive stability. It is also not considered to be a fast as it might be. That said, it is still one beautiful boat, it is said to be the most common boat out there among cruising couples, and it is "big enough" to liveaboard for a couple without being a bear to handle under sail. It also has a shallow enough draft to "do the islands" in some of the shallower harbors, even if this reduces a bit its pointing ability. Hmmmm, Not to say that the boats on his list aren't good boats, but I dunno if I can really respect any supposedly comprehensive list of cruising boats that doesn't include the Tayana. I've never had it confirmed, but I've been told that more SSCA (Seve Seas Cruising Assoc.) member have the Tayana 37 than any other single make/model. Looking at it, I note that neither the Baba not the Union 36 are on it either. I haven't studied it in depth, but it would seem to be heavily weighted against the boats in the overbuilt/heavy end of the spectrum. Nothing wrong with this, as the list just represents his personal opinions, and he clearly states that "passage-making speed ... is now high on my personal list of priorities". This is a very valid opinion, but not the only valid one. Some of us lean more toward the rugged and comfortable with reasonable to good performance boats (like my Tayana) http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with most of his choices and comments. -- Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448 B-2/75 1977-1979 Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG |
#150
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Offshore cruiser questions
Even Robert Perrry, the designer of the TY37, will state
that the staysail is useless Not to worry. There is at least three, maybe four, people who might disagree with Robby Periwinkle about one or two aspects of boat design.. |
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