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#121
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Bought cool new digital charger....$89? WalMart?!!
"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message
... "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:30:30 +0100, "Meindert Sprang" wrote: Thanks, but the keywords I see are RESIDENTIAL. They are "encouraged", but not "required" to do so in an industrial environment, same as computers. In section 15.103 sub (a) it says that devices operating exclusively in any transportation vehicle (including motor vehicles and aircraft) are exempted. Now according to my dictionary, a vehicle usually has wheel and mover over land. What about boats? Meindert |
#122
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Bought cool new digital charger....$89? WalMart?!!
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:20:05 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote: The figures I qouted were for radiated emission, which is hardly present on lower frequencies. Below 30MHz, conducted emission is more the problem. This is emission through connected wires and is measured with a current probe setup. Meindert The radiation from the unshielded wires, with many of them sucking noise from inside the shielded pair because you must hook one side (NMEA B) to many grounds creating a giant HF antenna out of your carefully shielded cabling, is the problem on the HF receivers...... Let's just dump all this NMEA crap from 1970 and build Bluetooth compatibility into every new marine electronic gadget. No need for multiplexers for ancient technology mistakes, wires radiating crap to all the radios, wires picking up the 150 watt SSB transmitter and trashing all the NMEA crap it's hooked to. I was for USB until I got looking at Bluetooth...... http://www.bluetooth.com/news/index....PID=1130&ARC=1 "NAVMAN GPS 4460 LEADS THE WAY FOR PALM OS 5 USERS Navigation Leader Unveils New palmOne Handheld Compatible Bluetooth GPS Device Foothill Ranch, Calif. – Navman, a leading designer and manufacturer of world-class global positioning systems (GPS), communication and marine products, announced today the latest addition to its innovative line of GPS products for the consumer electronics market. The Navman 4460 is a voice-enabled, Bluetooth™ GPS receiver designed for Palm®OS 5-based handhelds (e.g. select devices from PalmOne, Inc. and Sony). The device is powered by the latest version of Navman’s award winning SmartST™ Professional navigation software and offers consumers the most comprehensive self-contained guidance solution on the market. The GPS 4460 is being unveiled at the 2004 International Consumer Electronics Show. SmartST Version II provides detailed street-level mapping for all of North America, including Hawaii and Canada. The software is fully automatic and provides voice (male or female) guidance, in addition to visual driving instructions. Features include address-to-address routing, Back-on-track? rerouting when off-course and an extensive points-of-interest (POI) library. The POI database contains: retail shops, entertainment venues, local amenities, restaurants, bars, buildings and monuments, hotels, public transportation, gas stations, garages, sports facilities, institutions, medical services and natural attractions, allowing users to plan routes more easily and effectively. SmartST options provide the ability to find the shortest or quickest route to any destination, set locations as favorites, select from a list of recent address entries, and hear spoken instructions in one of seven languages. Large display icons and easy-to-read maps provide an operator-friendly interface for added safety while driving. SmartST is also optimized for palmOne’s new Tungsten™ T3 handheld, allowing users to take advantage of the device’s full 320x480 screen in both portrait and landscape modes. The 4460 device employs a high-performance GPS receiver combined with an embedded, Class 2 Bluetooth transceiver, which facilitates the wireless communication of accurate satellite navigation information to the handheld device. Once the SmartST software is installed onto the user’s computer, it can be downloaded to the PDA via synchronization, and map, voice and POI data is stored on an SD Card. A blinking LED displays connectivity status and low battery indication. The complete GPS 4460 solution includes a wireless GPS antenna, SmartST Professional navigation software, a vehicle power adapter, vehicle mounting brackets, and both an armband and lanyard for outdoor personal use. The unit operates for 30 hours on 3 AAA Alkaline batteries (included)." Isn't it time to DUMP NMEA-XXXX and move all boat instruments on to wireless technology? Yes, it is..... Larry W4CSC No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH! Kirk Out..... |
#123
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Bought cool new digital charger....$89? WalMart?!!
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:20:05 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote: The figures I qouted were for radiated emission, which is hardly present on lower frequencies. Below 30MHz, conducted emission is more the problem. This is emission through connected wires and is measured with a current probe setup. Meindert The radiation from the unshielded wires, with many of them sucking noise from inside the shielded pair because you must hook one side (NMEA B) to many grounds creating a giant HF antenna out of your carefully shielded cabling, is the problem on the HF receivers...... Let's just dump all this NMEA crap from 1970 and build Bluetooth compatibility into every new marine electronic gadget. No need for multiplexers for ancient technology mistakes, wires radiating crap to all the radios, wires picking up the 150 watt SSB transmitter and trashing all the NMEA crap it's hooked to. I was for USB until I got looking at Bluetooth...... http://www.bluetooth.com/news/index....PID=1130&ARC=1 "NAVMAN GPS 4460 LEADS THE WAY FOR PALM OS 5 USERS Navigation Leader Unveils New palmOne Handheld Compatible Bluetooth GPS Device Foothill Ranch, Calif. – Navman, a leading designer and manufacturer of world-class global positioning systems (GPS), communication and marine products, announced today the latest addition to its innovative line of GPS products for the consumer electronics market. The Navman 4460 is a voice-enabled, Bluetooth™ GPS receiver designed for Palm®OS 5-based handhelds (e.g. select devices from PalmOne, Inc. and Sony). The device is powered by the latest version of Navman’s award winning SmartST™ Professional navigation software and offers consumers the most comprehensive self-contained guidance solution on the market. The GPS 4460 is being unveiled at the 2004 International Consumer Electronics Show. SmartST Version II provides detailed street-level mapping for all of North America, including Hawaii and Canada. The software is fully automatic and provides voice (male or female) guidance, in addition to visual driving instructions. Features include address-to-address routing, Back-on-track? rerouting when off-course and an extensive points-of-interest (POI) library. The POI database contains: retail shops, entertainment venues, local amenities, restaurants, bars, buildings and monuments, hotels, public transportation, gas stations, garages, sports facilities, institutions, medical services and natural attractions, allowing users to plan routes more easily and effectively. SmartST options provide the ability to find the shortest or quickest route to any destination, set locations as favorites, select from a list of recent address entries, and hear spoken instructions in one of seven languages. Large display icons and easy-to-read maps provide an operator-friendly interface for added safety while driving. SmartST is also optimized for palmOne’s new Tungsten™ T3 handheld, allowing users to take advantage of the device’s full 320x480 screen in both portrait and landscape modes. The 4460 device employs a high-performance GPS receiver combined with an embedded, Class 2 Bluetooth transceiver, which facilitates the wireless communication of accurate satellite navigation information to the handheld device. Once the SmartST software is installed onto the user’s computer, it can be downloaded to the PDA via synchronization, and map, voice and POI data is stored on an SD Card. A blinking LED displays connectivity status and low battery indication. The complete GPS 4460 solution includes a wireless GPS antenna, SmartST Professional navigation software, a vehicle power adapter, vehicle mounting brackets, and both an armband and lanyard for outdoor personal use. The unit operates for 30 hours on 3 AAA Alkaline batteries (included)." Isn't it time to DUMP NMEA-XXXX and move all boat instruments on to wireless technology? Yes, it is..... Larry W4CSC No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH! Kirk Out..... |
#124
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Bought cool new digital charger....$89? WalMart?!!
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:29:48 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote: "Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ... "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:30:30 +0100, "Meindert Sprang" wrote: Thanks, but the keywords I see are RESIDENTIAL. They are "encouraged", but not "required" to do so in an industrial environment, same as computers. In section 15.103 sub (a) it says that devices operating exclusively in any transportation vehicle (including motor vehicles and aircraft) are exempted. Now according to my dictionary, a vehicle usually has wheel and mover over land. What about boats? Meindert A boat is a transportation vehicle, so is exempt and manufacturers can go all to hell screwing up the Icom with radiating chargers, NMEA gadgets, computer displays and use cheap screw terminals on un-shielded, unbalanced feed lines to turn the whole damned boat into a giant broadband transmitter. (See my comment about Bluetooth.....last message) Larry W4CSC No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH! Kirk Out..... |
#125
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Bought cool new digital charger....$89? WalMart?!!
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:29:48 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote: "Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ... "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:30:30 +0100, "Meindert Sprang" wrote: Thanks, but the keywords I see are RESIDENTIAL. They are "encouraged", but not "required" to do so in an industrial environment, same as computers. In section 15.103 sub (a) it says that devices operating exclusively in any transportation vehicle (including motor vehicles and aircraft) are exempted. Now according to my dictionary, a vehicle usually has wheel and mover over land. What about boats? Meindert A boat is a transportation vehicle, so is exempt and manufacturers can go all to hell screwing up the Icom with radiating chargers, NMEA gadgets, computer displays and use cheap screw terminals on un-shielded, unbalanced feed lines to turn the whole damned boat into a giant broadband transmitter. (See my comment about Bluetooth.....last message) Larry W4CSC No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH! Kirk Out..... |
#126
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Bought cool new digital charger....$89? WalMart?!!
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
... The radiation from the unshielded wires, with many of them sucking noise from inside the shielded pair because you must hook one side (NMEA B) to many grounds creating a giant HF antenna out of your carefully shielded cabling, is the problem on the HF receivers...... Agreed. It is therefore very important to have RF filtering in a device on the terminals, to prevent any RF from leaking out over wires. Let's just dump all this NMEA crap from 1970 and build Bluetooth compatibility into every new marine electronic gadget. No need for multiplexers for ancient technology mistakes, wires radiating crap to all the radios, wires picking up the 150 watt SSB transmitter and trashing all the NMEA crap it's hooked to. Yes and no. I will have a Bluetooth mulitplexer soon, but the problem with Bluetooth is that it allows either data over a 'serial profile', which is a point to point connection between two devices only (which my BT multiplexer will be: mux - PDA or computer) or you can have a piconet, which creates an RF network with a limit of 8 devices. I wonder though what an average BT device does when 150 W of RF is emitted in the near vincinity.... One think is for su BT or any RF datalink is far away from any approval needed for commercial vessels. Meindert |
#127
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Bought cool new digital charger....$89? WalMart?!!
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
... The radiation from the unshielded wires, with many of them sucking noise from inside the shielded pair because you must hook one side (NMEA B) to many grounds creating a giant HF antenna out of your carefully shielded cabling, is the problem on the HF receivers...... Agreed. It is therefore very important to have RF filtering in a device on the terminals, to prevent any RF from leaking out over wires. Let's just dump all this NMEA crap from 1970 and build Bluetooth compatibility into every new marine electronic gadget. No need for multiplexers for ancient technology mistakes, wires radiating crap to all the radios, wires picking up the 150 watt SSB transmitter and trashing all the NMEA crap it's hooked to. Yes and no. I will have a Bluetooth mulitplexer soon, but the problem with Bluetooth is that it allows either data over a 'serial profile', which is a point to point connection between two devices only (which my BT multiplexer will be: mux - PDA or computer) or you can have a piconet, which creates an RF network with a limit of 8 devices. I wonder though what an average BT device does when 150 W of RF is emitted in the near vincinity.... One think is for su BT or any RF datalink is far away from any approval needed for commercial vessels. Meindert |
#128
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Bought cool new digital charger....$89? WalMart?!!
"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ... "Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ... "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:30:30 +0100, "Meindert Sprang" wrote: Thanks, but the keywords I see are RESIDENTIAL. They are "encouraged", but not "required" to do so in an industrial environment, same as computers. In section 15.103 sub (a) it says that devices operating exclusively in any transportation vehicle (including motor vehicles and aircraft) are exempted. Now according to my dictionary, a vehicle usually has wheel and mover over land. What about boats? Meindert Meindert has beaten me to the quote, citing the correct subsection which exempts electronics used in ANY US vehicle. This is simply an exclusion granted by the FCC, other groups and agencies may have regulatory compliance requirements for vehicles under their control or authority. For instance, the FAA will not allow any random electronics installation in an aircraft. Auto manufacturers place stringent compliance requirements on their vendors, but after the sale, the manufacturer has no control over the vehicle (although theoretically, some electronic aftermarket additions might void the manufacturer's warranty). In Europe, the automakers have pulled a sneaky exclusion, for automotive products from the EMC Directive, that will last about 10 more years. They have a parallel, but not harmonized compliance structure, and thus an EN marking and a Declaration of Conformity for goods going into European autos is not required. (No Directive, so nothing to conform to, so no way to declare conformity!) I can't recall what they formally call the automotive system; maybe it is the Automotive Directive. Naah, too simple! Ed |
#129
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Bought cool new digital charger....$89? WalMart?!!
"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ... "Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ... "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:30:30 +0100, "Meindert Sprang" wrote: Thanks, but the keywords I see are RESIDENTIAL. They are "encouraged", but not "required" to do so in an industrial environment, same as computers. In section 15.103 sub (a) it says that devices operating exclusively in any transportation vehicle (including motor vehicles and aircraft) are exempted. Now according to my dictionary, a vehicle usually has wheel and mover over land. What about boats? Meindert Meindert has beaten me to the quote, citing the correct subsection which exempts electronics used in ANY US vehicle. This is simply an exclusion granted by the FCC, other groups and agencies may have regulatory compliance requirements for vehicles under their control or authority. For instance, the FAA will not allow any random electronics installation in an aircraft. Auto manufacturers place stringent compliance requirements on their vendors, but after the sale, the manufacturer has no control over the vehicle (although theoretically, some electronic aftermarket additions might void the manufacturer's warranty). In Europe, the automakers have pulled a sneaky exclusion, for automotive products from the EMC Directive, that will last about 10 more years. They have a parallel, but not harmonized compliance structure, and thus an EN marking and a Declaration of Conformity for goods going into European autos is not required. (No Directive, so nothing to conform to, so no way to declare conformity!) I can't recall what they formally call the automotive system; maybe it is the Automotive Directive. Naah, too simple! Ed |
#130
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Bought cool new digital charger....$89? WalMart?!!
"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ... "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... The radiation from the unshielded wires, with many of them sucking noise from inside the shielded pair because you must hook one side (NMEA B) to many grounds creating a giant HF antenna out of your carefully shielded cabling, is the problem on the HF receivers...... Agreed. It is therefore very important to have RF filtering in a device on the terminals, to prevent any RF from leaking out over wires. Let's just dump all this NMEA crap from 1970 and build Bluetooth compatibility into every new marine electronic gadget. No need for multiplexers for ancient technology mistakes, wires radiating crap to all the radios, wires picking up the 150 watt SSB transmitter and trashing all the NMEA crap it's hooked to. Yes and no. I will have a Bluetooth mulitplexer soon, but the problem with Bluetooth is that it allows either data over a 'serial profile', which is a point to point connection between two devices only (which my BT multiplexer will be: mux - PDA or computer) or you can have a piconet, which creates an RF network with a limit of 8 devices. I wonder though what an average BT device does when 150 W of RF is emitted in the near vincinity.... One think is for su BT or any RF datalink is far away from any approval needed for commercial vessels. Meindert I would much prefer fiberoptic in a commercial or military vessel. It's much more secure and robust in the presence of a hostile RF environment. And in a commercial vessel, it shouldn't be a hardship to route sufficient fiberoptic cabling. True, I can see certain advantages in having a roving port with an RF link to the ship's systems, and if you really feel you need this in a personal watercraft environment, then Bluetooth looks like the way to go. But RF data links are a "complicating" option, and you should always try to make systems as "simple" as possible. Ed |
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