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dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:55:43 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

You are responsible for your wake... PBer or sailor.

Yes, everyone knows that they are responsible for *damage* caused by
their wake. That does not include inconvenience or damaged egos
however.

Please show me where I said it damaged my ego or was inconvenient? I said
that it endangered my crew.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:16:21 -0500, "mr.b" wrote:

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:35:55 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

The problem is that many sailors think that all powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake inconveniences them in some
waysnip

I'd like to invite you to stand in my cockpit sometime and get acquainted
with the business end of my boom when one of your powerboatin' pals comes
by...

Trust me, I've spent a lot of time under, over and around booms, and
have always disliked getting waked as much as anyone else, especially
when closing on a finish line in light air.

The fact is however that wakes and waves are part of being on the
water, and no one should expect a powerboat to slow down just to
improve their comfort level or finish position.

And, it's not a matter of improving someone's comfort. It's a matter of
respecting the rules, which this guy clearly didn't do, thus putting people
in danger. For someone who wasn't there, you sure seem certain about what
happened. Why's that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:44:40 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

Some people roll me, and some get rolled by me.

You *ARE* responsible for your wake!

It's part of boating and being on the water.

It's a part of BAD boating, and being on the water with
ignorant, arrogant power boaters.

Nonsense. Have you ever seen the wake from a freighter or
fast tug
boat? If so you'll never complain about sportfish or
motoryachts.

Big ships and tugs don't pass within 20 feet at full speed
like some stinkpotters do.

Exactly. In fact, the tugs going along as powerboats and not working are
quite courteous. They get it. I've been on the ocean and had a tanker change
course to go around us... following the rules as he should have. We hailed
him and thanked him.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:44:40 -0500, "Scotty" wrote:

It is
not written in stone anywhere that the water will always
be flat.

It *IS* written in the books that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR
YOUR WAKE !

Responsible for damage.

No blood, no foul.

Responsible for damage and/or injury.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Bloody Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:56:50 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote this crap:

I sure as shootin wouldn't take these Hunters out the Gate unless the
conditions were benign... they're not off-shore capable.

You're an idiot. I've gone through storms that would have you tied to
the mast, puking your guts into your purse.

I took third place in a race during one of those storms.

I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

Are you related to Capt Neal?

He's just another dweeb who thinks he knows something and doesn't. He's
quite insecure and a coward, apparently.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:53:32 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

A lot of it is a perception issue. People in larger, faster boats are
percieved as being arrogant, particularly if they are well dressed or in
the company of good looking women. If they inconvenience or discomfit us,
they are percieved as being ignorant. Take that same person and put him
down on your level in a sailboat and all of a sudden he is an educated,
well spoken, all around nice guy.

Perceptions.

I think Wayne that you want to advance the idea that there are classes of
boaters...and to a certain extent I'll agree but not in the way you'd
like. There is a class of considerate boaters who abide by the rules of
good seamanship...and then there are the assholes...and some of them drive
ragbaggers too. This thread started about a dumbass who passed too
closely to a sailboat at speed while the capt of the stinktub is reported
to have offered up the international handsign that announced his IQ. You
shouldn't feel compelled to defend the undefendable.

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters

"mr.b" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:53:32 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

A lot of it is a perception issue. People in larger, faster boats are
percieved as being arrogant, particularly if they are well dressed or in
the company of good looking women. If they inconvenience or discomfit
us,
they are percieved as being ignorant. Take that same person and put him
down on your level in a sailboat and all of a sudden he is an educated,
well spoken, all around nice guy.

Perceptions.

I think Wayne that you want to advance the idea that there are classes of
boaters...and to a certain extent I'll agree but not in the way you'd
like. There is a class of considerate boaters who abide by the rules of
good seamanship...and then there are the assholes...and some of them drive
ragbaggers too. This thread started about a dumbass who passed too
closely to a sailboat at speed while the capt of the stinktub is reported
to have offered up the international handsign that announced his IQ. You
shouldn't feel compelled to defend the undefendable.

I agree... we promote being considerate, and despite my skeptical nature,
I'm almost always taken aback when on the receiving end of assholes.
Certainly, there are sailors who are good and bad, same with PBers. I've
experienced both from both.

Hey, maybe Wayne was the PBer in question!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters

On Nov 6, 8:18 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

No, seriosly, I think you are misunderestimating the distances and
thus complaining about non-issues.

No seriously, I didn't. I have a fair amount of experience in the North Bay
of SF especially, and wakes are not a big deal.

Here is the test:

If another boater cuts you off close enough to fling some old fish
heads on his bridge, you have the right to do so. Just do it. Fish
heads, anything biodegradable, in case you miss. You will soon see if
they really are that close, it is hard to aim fish heads well over
more than 50 feet, I would guess. Ask me how I know.

Gross. No thanks.

Also, if you really were going just half a knot, the kayaker could
have moved out of your way easily. They are capable of accelerating to
about five knots in not time. And trust me, he would have, if you had
been really close. He just didn't think you were too close.

You're right in that he didn't think, but we were too close. As I said
previously, it was my impression after thinking about it that he couldn't
control his kayak. I think he was a total novice.

Btw., having no engine does not put you in 'unable to maneuver '
status. It just makes you a sailboat, col-reg-wise, doesn't it?

I did have an engine, and I told him that we were having engine trouble. So,
I'm not sure what you're asking.

So, what had happened with the engine? We are all curious to hear.

I'm waiting to hear...

Captain Jack Sparrow

Right.

On Nov 6, 11:44 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
Taught a class this last weekend through one of the local schools.
Saturday,
wind was light, so we practiced a lot of motoring skills aboard a newer
Hunter 32. Typically, the second day is devoted to sailing skills, such
as
COBs and the usual tacking/jibing/points of sail, etc.

The wind picked up a bit in mid-afternoon, and we got some good COB
practice. Ate lunch under sail, and since anchoring knowledge is part of
the
class, I decided to get us over to the Cone Rock area for a bit of
practice.
Sailing there, a big cabin cruiser came up on us from the starboard
stern...
must have been going 10+ kts, with a huge wake.

At first I thought he was going to cut us off to the point of us having
to
take evasive action, but he weaved around enough to clear our side and
bow.
The whole time we're waving and gesturing to slow down, since it was
going
to be close and the wake was going to be huge. He kept right on going,
and
as he got abeam, had the middle finger flying. What a jerk. Fortunately,
we
were all holding on at this point, so no one was hurt or thrown off the
boat, which could easily have been the case.

Ok, so we proceeded to sail, then got to a good spot to turn on the
engine
and drop the sails. Did this, motored about 200 meters, when the cooling
water hi temp alarm came on. I was able to kill the engine within 20
seconds
or so. A couple of the students were still up by the mast, so the main
came
back up without a hitch. As soon as they scrambled back to the cockpit, I
popped the furling line for the jib, it came out, and we got moving
again.

We did a visual inspection of the engine... double checked that the raw
water intake was open, oil level, fresh water level, feel for excessive
heat, sniff test for something burning, belts are on and not slipping. I
had
someone turn the engine back on and I put my hand over the raw water
exhaust
(it's under the transom, and you can be fooled by air bubbling vs. water
exiting). Water was definitely coming out, the water was luke warm at
most,
but the alarm was on. Also, I noticed oil on the absorbant pad underneath
the engine... not a lot, but there was none in the morning... something
happened. Well, we were sailing, so it didn't matter right now, and I
shut
down the engine after about a minute. Even though the water was only warm
at
most, I was starting to see steam coming out of the exhaust. I started
thinking it might be a blown head gasket, one reason was it seemed overly
rough at low idle.

Since we were headed back to base anyway at this point, I figured I'd
give
them a ring (cell phone had great reception) and let the base manager
know
what was up and ask if he had any suggestions. He had none beyond what
I'd
already done, so I told him we'd be back in about an hour at most, and I
would call him again if I thought we couldn't make it back to either the
slip or an end tie near the base. I think he appreciated me not hailing
them
on the VHF... dirty laundry in public and all that.

So, we're sailing down the Sausalito channel. Toward the end of the
channel,
where we need to go, it gets rather narrow, and it's quite easy to run
aground if you get outside the markers. As we get to a particularly
narrow
spot (still under sail, which was good practice for the students), three
kayakers come out of a marina and are slowly paddling ahead of us on our
port side just outside the channel. I can see that they're totally
unaware
of us and edging closer and closer to the channel, obviously going to
head
across it.

When I got within earshot, I called over to them, saying, please stay out
of
the channel... we're having engine trouble and can't maneauver. One asked
me
where he should be, and I said, anywhere except in front of me is fine.
Another one stopped paddling, waiting for us to go by. The third guy kept
going! Slowly! Unbelievable. So, I said, Sir, if you keep going, we're
going
to run you over. Please get out of the channel. He said ok, but kept
going!
So, I turned on the engine again, figuring I could use it for 30 seconds
without damage, since it had been off for over 30 minutes. We got around
him, barely. I thanked him for getting out of our way, and I think he
thought I was serious. Jeez... Then, I turned off the engine.

Well, the final leg was sailing down the fairway, very light wind at this
point... under 2kts, but we made a beautiful docking, and all ended well.

--
"j" ganz

--
"j" ganz

So, Captain John Goose, what DID happen with the engine?

dead engines, kayaks, and powerboaters