Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#11
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
October 30 - Aground again, Naturally (a riff on a 60's song)...
On Oct 30, 11:07 pm, Jere Lull wrote:
On 2007-10-30 10:57:50 -0400, Skip Gundlach said: The next day we expected to go to Solomons Island, but the weather was forecast (see above comment on NOAA, and see below for more) at 20-25 knots with gusts to 30, and straight behind us, along with relatively large waves, which would have been very uncomfortable. So, we decided to stay in Cambridge for another day. Of course, given NOAA's track record so far (see below), it might have been a fine day to sail south. I can't quite figure out which day you're referring to here, but Friday, Saturday and Sunday were solid 20-25 with a regular higher gusts. Moderated a bit Sunday afternoon to 12-15 with some gusts. Our raft-up of "corks" (very light & buoyant boats) broad-reached at hull speed north on Saturday, south on Sunday (How often does the wind do *that*?), one logging about 15 nm, the smaller doing about 30 nm. 'Twas a wonderful downhill sleigh ride. You probably would have been fine jib-sailing, but you're cruising now, so not moving for any or no reason is just fine. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages:http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips:http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ Hi, Jere, Sunday was the day we passed on. It had been forecast, all the way up until early that morning, for 20-25, 30G, 3-5, straight on our tail. Lydia and I would have done it, but in consideration for our passenger, we took a lay day. Your report of the reality would have been a very nice run - but not having feet on the ground out there, we could only go on the NOAA stuff and all the other internet stuff we could find... L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) |
#12
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
October 30 - Aground again, Naturally (a riff on a 60's song)...
Skip,
a couple of observations: repeated belt failure is unlikely cause by chance. Sounds like you are over stressing the unit. If you have( as I suspect) a high output alternator and a smart regulator), you have options 1. most smart regulators have a belt load adjustment. Adjust it 2. You may require a dual belt system to carry the load. My point is that you have had this problem continually and want to solve it once and for all before you go far afield regards, Dennis Gibbons S/V Dark Lady CN35-207 "Skip Gundlach" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 30, 6:40 pm, "Garland Gray II" wrote: I used to use Gates, but now I've been using Dayco Topcog belts that are sold at Advance. They were recommended as better, and certainly seem tougher. BTW, you aren't using the Gates belt with Kevlar are you ? I tried them once resulting in rapid, repeat failure. From a call to Gates I learned that if any sheave is below a certain diameter, kevlar reinforced belts will not last. Hi, Garland, I don't know - they are Napa's "heavy duty FHP" 4L490W. Certainly that's a possibility. I really think it's got to be the pulleys, which are demonstrably smaller than 1/2 other than on the alternator. I also have a new 3/8 pulley, and the current belts I'm trying are 10mm, as recommended by one in another list as lasting him more than hundreds (plural) of hours, so I'll mount that after this one fails. Currently, it just goes into both of the engine sheaves, and sits low in the alternator, though well off the bottom. It's also cogged on the bottom, cited as better for tight turns as well as heat dissipation. I've felt the engine pulley, and I believe that it's potentially at fault, too, in that the edges, while not rough (sandblasted during our refit, and repainted, not rusting before reinstallation), are slightly pitted. In any case, the speed of wear on the new belt will tell us - and, for those better connected than I to the world of belts, it's a 25 Xl 7483, which is a tiny bit longer than I need; I'm going to get the next shorter one today, along with another of these as a spare, and if the shorter one doesn't go on in the next change, exchange it for a 7483. I tried Top Cogs, but I'd been told I needed a 50" belt, and while it went on easily, there wasn't enough stretch room, and they quickly started slipping. I've been trying to find another source after the one I found in Charleston and haven't succeeded yet, but will lay in some of those as well, if I can. And, of course, if the 3/8-10mm route works, that will save me having to buy new pulleys, a route I'm sure will be horribly expensive as they're no longer made... L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) |
#13
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
October 30 - Aground again, Naturally (a riff on a 60's song)...
Amen. One of the symptoms of an overloaded belt is it turning over in
the sheaves. bob s/v Eolian Seattle Dennis Gibbons brought forth on stone tablets: Skip, a couple of observations: repeated belt failure is unlikely cause by chance. Sounds like you are over stressing the unit. If you have( as I suspect) a high output alternator and a smart regulator), you have options 1. most smart regulators have a belt load adjustment. Adjust it 2. You may require a dual belt system to carry the load. My point is that you have had this problem continually and want to solve it once and for all before you go far afield regards, Dennis Gibbons S/V Dark Lady CN35-207 |
#14
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
October 30 - Aground again, Naturally (a riff on a 60's song)...
Actually, the Gilbert O'Sullivan song 'Alone Again, Naturally' was not
of the '60's, reaching #1 on the Billboard Charts (and remaining there for 6 weeks) in July of 1972. MW |
#15
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
October 30 - Aground again, Naturally (a riff on a 60's song)...
On 2007-10-31 08:06:34 -0400, Skip Gundlach said:
I can't quite figure out which day you're referring to here, but Friday, Saturday and Sunday were solid 20-25 with a regular higher gusts. Moderated a bit Sunday afternoon to 12-15 with some gusts. You probably would have been fine jib-sailing, but you're cruising now, so not moving for any or no reason is just fine. -- Jere Hi, Jere, Sunday was the day we passed on. It had been forecast, all the way up until early that morning, for 20-25, 30G, 3-5, straight on our tail. Lydia and I would have done it, but in consideration for our passenger, we took a lay day. Your report of the reality would have been a very nice run - but not having feet on the ground out there, we could only go on the NOAA stuff and all the other internet stuff we could find... Hey, Pat and I lazed in the anchorage until about 2, not wanting to go out in *that* and betting that it'd be less sloppy later -- and we only had 3 nm of open water and half an hour. You've got the time, pick your battles. We have stayed in the Solomons a couple of times with a mere 15 knots on the nose. The first time, after a half hour of escalating mistakes and frustration, we turned around: Best decision we could have made. The geometry of that area can make some strange waves. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
#16
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
Definitive 4-154 belt information
On Oct 30, 6:40 pm, "Garland Gray II" wrote:
I used to use Gates, but now I've been using Dayco Topcog belts that are sold at Advance. They were recommended as better, and certainly seem tougher. BTW, you aren't using the Gates belt with Kevlar are you ? I tried them once resulting in rapid, repeat failure. From a call to Gates I learned that if any sheave is below a certain diameter, kevlar reinforced belts will not last. More on the subject: Update and probably a conclusive answer to my earlier question... I went and talked with the kind folks at Zahnheiser's in Solomons today. They dragged out the Perkins manual and specific belts information as well. They had different belts for "old" and "new" 4-154s. New was defined as post-1981, which makes mine the "old" model. The specific Perkins belt for our engine is a 9.5-10mm (25/64") X 1260mm (49 5/8"), and equates to a Carquest XL 7490. It's skinnier than the ones I'd been using, so fits in the sheave correctly, rather than riding on top as the others I'd used did. That Perkins part number equivalent in Carquest is a cogged belt (not that it drives via teeth, but that it isn't solid), and matches the one I have just bought from NAPA, their # 7480. The one I have on now is a 7483, which is 1/4" longer, at 48 7/8" and I returned the even longer one, a 7485, at 49 1/8". So, apparently the original belt is almost 50" long. That, on my engine, anyway, would run out of adjustment almost immediately. However, the significant information is that it's a 25/64th belt, and cogged, presumably working to greatly reduce heat due to more surface area and better flex characteristics. I'll see how long the one I have lasts, and return the longer belt if I can get the shorter one on, as I presume I'll be able to do. The "new" Perkins belt Perkins part number is 2614B040 and there was not a translation on any other belt, nor did they stock them, so I don't know the specs on it - but at least, there's the part number for those who may not have it. Also, it's the opinion of the mechanic that the main pulley could likely be machined out to a 1/2" profile (sufficient material), but they didn't do that sort of work there, feeling it was too highly precision for them. If I had the luxury of doing it in a layover, I could make that happen, probably, by removing it and taking it to a machine shop. Using a similarly cogged belt in a 1/2 sheave would likely last longer - but I have the feeling that this will resolve most of my challenges. Between a heat problem killing similar belts to that which I was using, and the wrong sized belt for the drive pulley, I can see why I'd kill the belts I was using... So, keep reading my logs for further analysis and reports - but for now, that's the skinny (pardon the expression). L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) |
#17
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
Definitive 4-154 belt information
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 02:55:26 -0000, Skip Gundlach
wrote: Also, it's the opinion of the mechanic that the main pulley could likely be machined out to a 1/2" profile (sufficient material), but they didn't do that sort of work there, feeling it was too highly precision for them. If I had the luxury of doing it in a layover, I could make that happen, probably, by removing it and taking it to a machine shop. Before you do all that, try to find a double sheave pulley for both the engine and alternator. Long term I think that's the real answer. |
#18
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
October 30 - Aground again, Naturally (a riff on a 60's song)...
Skip wrote:
And, of course, if the 3/8-10mm route works, that will save me having to buy new pulleys, a route I'm sure will be horribly expensive as they're no longer made... Skip, I may have missed it in past posts, but have you checked carefully to see that the V-angle on both pullies as well as the belt are all identicle? Balmar at least has supplied slightly different V angles on pullies with their alternators to suppliers using the same part numbers. If any one is different it would eat belts. Red |
#19
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
Definitive 4-154 belt information
I concur.
You can't rely on the stock engine belting when you are using a high output alternator. Dennis Gibbons "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 02:55:26 -0000, Skip Gundlach wrote: Also, it's the opinion of the mechanic that the main pulley could likely be machined out to a 1/2" profile (sufficient material), but they didn't do that sort of work there, feeling it was too highly precision for them. If I had the luxury of doing it in a layover, I could make that happen, probably, by removing it and taking it to a machine shop. Before you do all that, try to find a double sheave pulley for both the engine and alternator. Long term I think that's the real answer. |
#20
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
October 30 - Aground again, Naturally (a riff on a 60's song)...
Skip,
IIRC the Gates kevlar belts were solid green. "Skip Gundlach" wrote in message ups.com... Hi, Garland, I don't know - they are Napa's "heavy duty FHP" 4L490W. Certainly that's a possibility. I really think it's got to be the pulleys, which are demonstrably smaller than 1/2 other than on the alternator. I also have a new 3/8 pulley, and the current belts I'm trying are 10mm, as recommended by one in another list as lasting him more than hundreds (plural) of hours, so I'll mount that after this one fails. Currently, it just goes into both of the engine sheaves, and sits low in the alternator, though well off the bottom. It's also cogged on the bottom, cited as better for tight turns as well as heat dissipation. I've felt the engine pulley, and I believe that it's potentially at fault, too, in that the edges, while not rough (sandblasted during our refit, and repainted, not rusting before reinstallation), are slightly pitted. In any case, the speed of wear on the new belt will tell us - and, for those better connected than I to the world of belts, it's a 25 Xl 7483, which is a tiny bit longer than I need; I'm going to get the next shorter one today, along with another of these as a spare, and if the shorter one doesn't go on in the next change, exchange it for a 7483. I tried Top Cogs, but I'd been told I needed a 50" belt, and while it went on easily, there wasn't enough stretch room, and they quickly started slipping. I've been trying to find another source after the one I found in Charleston and haven't succeeded yet, but will lay in some of those as well, if I can. And, of course, if the 3/8-10mm route works, that will save me having to buy new pulleys, a route I'm sure will be horribly expensive as they're no longer made... L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
October 20 - Saints Alive (a riff on a Canadian Brass piece I used to play in concerts in a prior life with my trombone) | Cruising | |||
restoring a '60's 12' Aero Craft | Boat Building | |||
60's 33hp Evinrude SkiTwin wont start. | General | |||
60's Music - Like 'Michael Rowed the Boat Ashore' | General | |||
open 60's | ASA |