On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 06:47:01 -0000, Bob wrote:


Please supply the following data;

1) what is the weight of your boat?

2) How much DRAG (pull on your ground tackle) does your boat create
in the following winds

15 knots _________ pounds

30 knots _________ pounds

42 knots _________ pounds

60 knots_________ pounds
...
Bob


You must be joking? This is the sort of questionnaire
that an engineer might address. I will tell you for free, that the
rec.boats.cruising participation group is not largely comprised
of engineers.
You have this data for your boat, I expect.
Accurate to +- 5% I expect?

Brian Whatcott Altus OK
p.s. Drag is determined by a whole bunch more factors than
wind speed, dude.

On Oct 27, 6:16 am, Brian Whatcott wrote:
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 06:47:01 -0000, Bob wrote:
Please supply the following data;

1) what is the weight of your boat?

2) How much DRAG (pull on your ground tackle) does your boat create
in the following winds

15 knots _________ pounds

30 knots _________ pounds

42 knots _________ pounds

60 knots_________ pounds
..
Bob


You must be joking? This is the sort of questionnaire
that an engineer might address. I will tell you for free, that the
rec.boats.cruising participation group is not largely comprised
of engineers.
You have this data for your boat, I expect.
Accurate to +- 5% I expect?

Brian Whatcott Altus OK
p.s. Drag is determined by a whole bunch more factors than
wind speed, dude.- Hide quoted text -



Hi Brian:

No Joke intended here. And in all sincerity I don't believe my
questions are beyond anyone that lingers here. Like I said, It aint
rocket science. The biggest problem I see here is a total lack of
ability/desire to learn................

There are those who say theyve anchored 400 times/year all over the
place and bla bla bla
or
its beyond our ability to learn cause we aint engineers.
or
Uhh, duhh I dont know... weve drug a few times without any problmes

So once a gain I will say that operating a boat does has a prereq
skill set.

You have this data for your boat, I expect.
Accurate to +- 5% I expect?

To answer your question Brian...... Yes I do have that info. Im not an
engineer, just a average joe who doesnt have enough money to risk my
home getting carried to the rocks. Ill tell ya a little secret.......
I read it in a book. A book an engineer wrote so I didnt have to do
the math. THere are some very smart people out there all willing to
help. So I read and take their advice. The BIGGEST problem with that
is any idiot can get $500 bucks for an article in Sailing or Cruising
World. The real challenge is which source to believe.

So as I said to Skip I will also say to you. Please read the text
titled:

"The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring", by Earl Hintz,
He has another titled " Sea Anchors and Drogues" Get that one too.

Once you read both then lets talk..................

PS, Agreed there are several factors, when put together, keep a boat
put..... dude.
But figured that was beyond Skips ability to understand at this
point.

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:16:29 -0700, Bob wrote:


2) How much DRAG (pull on your ground tackle) does your boat create
in the following winds
....
You must be joking? This is the sort of questionnaire
that an engineer might address.
....
Hi Brian:

No Joke intended here. And in all sincerity I don't believe my
questions are beyond anyone that lingers here.

Wow! An anwer in a tone so civil that its credibility
jumps 5 points immediately.
Thanks

Brian W

"Brian Whatcott" wrote
a tone so civil

Did you catch the PS at the end? I sometimes wonder if the people who post
evangelical "you must do as I say or you're a vile menace" rants are such
confrontational jerks in person. I hope not. Bob may be a treasure trove of
anchor wisdom for all I know, but when he comes off as just another troll
with a hard-on for Skip, the credibility meter takes a dip.

On Oct 28, 8:15 am, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote:
"Brian Whatcott" wrote

a tone so civil

Did you catch the PS at the end? I sometimes wonder if the people who post
evangelical "you must do as I say or you're a vile menace" rants are such
confrontational jerks in person. I hope not. Bob may be a treasure trove of
anchor wisdom for all I know, but when he comes off as just another troll
with a hard-on for Skip, the credibility meter takes a dip.


Ernie & Brian:

Ah,, come on guys. I dont get to be an ass hole any place else. To be
honest I have had a gut full of collegial congeniality. To be honest
Skip reminds me too much of who Ive had to work with for the past 16
years. Well meaning, likable guys who go to church, smile and nod
their heads then completely ignore some petty good advice from some
pretty smart guys that post here (me excluded). I find it refreshing
to say it the way it is. I wish for once he would just tell me to go
get ****ed.

I enjoyed someone's description of this place a few weeks ago. I can t
remember the analogy but something close to, is like a bar that
doesn't close and will let anybody make a fool of themselves without
getting kicked out. I thought that was a right-on description.

As far as my experience goes it may be a bit different than most
yachters. I spent some time working with my Swedish step dad who
commercial fished his 62' dragger off WA/OR; GOM diver mostly on
scrap jobs (salvage) 10'-320'; American, Polish, Russian, Korean,
Japanese factory trawlers in Bearing Sea. So I got to see lots of
different ways to tie stuff together. I am by no means knowledgeable
about anchoring. I've just seen lots of different ways to get a job
done. Combine these experiences with my total lack of civil demeanor
in this place makes for some pretty outlandish statements.

Skip asked, what kind of shakels do I use attaching road to chain,
chain to anchor.

Two words:
1) Trawlex Grade 100 chain to anchor. Theyre cheep, small, and strong
ie G100 compared to G40, an not galvanized. So I just swap it out once
a year when I inspect my ground tackle. If a 400' factory trawler uses
them to drag a 100 MT bag of Pollock out of the Bering Sea I think its
good enough for my needs.

2) Nylite thimble (Samson) road to chain connection. If you don't know
about these pretty PLEASE go to this link and take a look. The USCG
use them on OR/WA/AK life boats. http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/cm2004.pdf
and no.... it wont go through your gypsy. But then I get a bullet
proof 95-100% connection.

And no I don't use three strand nylon for road. I use nylon double
braid. Although I might go to some of the 12 plait products soon. Very
easy/fast to splice and still get 10 percent stretch at 30% load. Oh,
and tough as nails. Oh, and CHEAPER!

There are lots of ways to do stuff. Just got to stay out of West
Marine and Cruising World.
So to all a sincere apology. Just don't look for a change any time
soon in my phatic conversation style.
Bombastic Bob

"Bob" wrote
Combine these experiences with my total lack of civil demeanor
in this place makes for some pretty outlandish statements.

Thanks for 'splaining. You're not all bad. (Just some...)

On Oct 28, 2:15 pm, Bob wrote:

Ah,, come on guys. I dont get to be an ass hole any place else. To be
honest I have had a gut full of collegial congeniality. To be honest
Skip reminds me too much of who Ive had to work with for the past 16
years. Well meaning, likable guys who go to church, smile and nod
their heads then completely ignore some petty good advice from some
pretty smart guys that post here (me excluded). I find it refreshing
to say it the way it is. I wish for once he would just tell me to go
get ****ed.

:{)) Heh. LOL ROFL Guffaw!

Come on, Bob. You know me better than that by now. Unless it would
give you great pleasure, in which case I don't mind, tongue in cheek,
because I've never told anyone that and meant it (in the spirit
intended, anyway - sometimes as a curative, but not as a
pejorative)...

And, you also know that I don't ignore good advice. I may not comment
on it, but if I see it I never ignore it...


I enjoyed someone's description of this place a few weeks ago. I can t
remember the analogy but something close to, is like a bar that
doesn't close and will let anybody make a fool of themselves without
getting kicked out. I thought that was a right-on description.

Heh. So, what have you got against me doing that?? :{))


Skip asked, what kind of shakels do I use attaching road to chain,
chain to anchor.

Two words:
1) Trawlex Grade 100 chain to anchor. Theyre cheep, small, and strong
ie G100 compared to G40, an not galvanized. So I just swap it out once
a year when I inspect my ground tackle. If a 400' factory trawler uses
them to drag a 100 MT bag of Pollock out of the Bering Sea I think its
good enough for my needs.

Seriously, though - what do you use for chain (I presume what you've
described is a shackle specific to a chain usage)? And, if you use
very high tensile shackles, and swap them out, is the chain similar,
or is it more standard fare? If you have a large anchor and all
chain, do you use a windlass?

In my case, the extra strength was from SS - which I also have to look
at each time I'm up there. So far, no difficulties with either the
galvanized swivel or SS shackle - but there's always a first time...


2) Nylite thimble (Samson) road to chain connection. If you don't know
about these pretty PLEASE go to this link and take a look. The USCG
use them on OR/WA/AK life boats.http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/cm2004.pdf
and no.... it wont go through your gypsy. But then I get a bullet
proof 95-100% connection.

Ya, they're good stuff. When I have all chain, it's not relevant.
However, your use suggests (and later below, perhaps some migration of
rode) that you have mostly rope rode - is that the case? Different
strokes for different folks, and also bottoms, so I'm not criticizing
- just curious. Of course, until you get to the end of it, other than
extremely deep anchoring, mostly rope rode is pretty easy to
manhandle, or if the boat's small enough in any case. Certainly, when
I was on anything smaller than 40', I didn't use a windlass, and it
was mostly rope, with a small length of chain, usually on a Danforth
or equivalent. And, as discussed long ago in this thread, perhaps that
would have prevented my most recent excitement - that is, if you
discount the 25* heel aground at the muni wall in Cambridge this
morning (high tide resolved that with no issue whatever) - despite my
having had what would normally have been far superior stuff (all chain
on a very large anchor). Back to thimbles...

My windlass wouldn't pass such a thimble, even if I had another
shackle between it and the chain, as its pipe is too small. However,
for the one where I do have a hawse pipe (the oval thing with a
cover), and part rope and part chain, it could work just fine, as I
have to manually lead that one, anyway. If I find myself using that
much rode (where I get into the rope portion) frequently on my
secondary, I might make that change.


And no I don't use three strand nylon for road. I use nylon double
braid. Although I might go to some of the 12 plait products soon. Very
easy/fast to splice and still get 10 percent stretch at 30% load. Oh,
and tough as nails. Oh, and CHEAPER!

There are lots of ways to do stuff. Just got to stay out of West
Marine and Cruising World.

Ehh. A Port Supply card goes a long way. But I bought my last chain
(300' 5/16HTG40) and anchor (75#CQR) someplace else for significantly
less than even Port.

OTOH, all the prior suggestions, in prior threads in years past, about
various industrial supply and chain houses, were fruitless. Couldn't
do a thing with the equivalent sizes, and gave up after trying very
hard.

So to all a sincere apology. Just don't look for a change any time
soon in my phatic conversation style.
Bombastic Bob

:{)) Phatic?

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
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On Oct 28, 4:59 pm, Dave wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 11:15:44 -0700, Bob said:

GOM diver mostly on
scrap jobs (salvage) 10'-320

Did you dive air or mixed gas at the 300+ depth?

Hi Dave;

Any job over 180' was gas. Although there was an OSHA or USCG reg that
said had ot have gas availible for any jump over 180' .... I think. My
memory fades.............

Although it was not unusual to do a 200' for :30 dive on deep air, of
course SUR D -O2.

Things have changed now though..................
DIT 107/80
Bob

On Oct 29, 6:39 am, Dave wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 22:30:22 -0700, Bob said:


Sounds about right. You sure did get a nice buzz on a 200' air dive, though.
And didn't freeze you A off.

I'm sure. I think my last dive was in 1971. Did you happen to see Men of
Honor?

Hi Dave,

Of course I saw Men of Honor! I grew up on Mike Nelson's Sea Hunt
too! I heard somplace that the Mk V gear and some of the extras were
all from DIT , Divers Institute of Technology in Seattle..... well,
actually Ballard,WA. Thats were I got my trade school tranining.

As for the air buzz, yes rather enjoyable side to it. The drag was
crawling into the chamber an cooking at 40' for 1 or 2 hours. It got
God awful hot in side.

But that was 25 years ago............... Now my only excitment is
yelling at Skip.

Bob

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:15:04 -0400, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote:

"Brian Whatcott" wrote
a tone so civil

Did you catch the PS at the end? I sometimes wonder if the people who post
evangelical "you must do as I say or you're a vile menace" rants are such
confrontational jerks in person. I hope not. Bob may be a treasure trove of
anchor wisdom for all I know, but when he comes off as just another troll
with a hard-on for Skip, the credibility meter takes a dip.


It was a benefit of the doubt thing. I know where you're comnig from.

Brian W