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#11
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Who's at fault here
Joe wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hrUSs9ndA&NR=1 the boat from which the pix were taken based on all rules I know of. Possible that this was on a lake in some nation with different rules. |
#12
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Who's at fault here
"Capt. JG" wrote in
: It didn't quite look like head-to-head. It looked like a crossing situation somewhat. The boat on the right is right, but both are at fault. Both boats should have turned to starboard. I don't see how you can say the faster boat would have or wouldn't have the ability to maneuver. Looks like plenty of sea room to me for both boats. Idiots.... It's the "nearly so" part of that statement that gets a lot of people in trouble. Yes, at the time of this video, the boat taking the video should have come right, but they are so close to that "nearly so" that I wonder about the perspective leading up to this. BG not sure I'm explaining this correctly |
#13
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Who's at fault here
On Oct 18, 11:48 am, Paul Cassel
wrote: Joe wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hrUSs9ndA&NR=1 the boat from which the pix were taken based on all rules I know of. Possible that this was on a lake in some nation with different rules. I like this one better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkqKpnU8sCE |
#14
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Who's at fault here
"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
. .. Joe wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hrUSs9ndA&NR=1 the boat from which the pix were taken based on all rules I know of. Possible that this was on a lake in some nation with different rules. To me, it looks like the smaller boat (hitee), Prince Wales(?), was flying a Dutch flag. I tried to listen to the voices, but couldn't make out the language. Leanne |
#15
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Who's at fault here
"otnmbrd" wrote in message
.70... "Capt. JG" wrote in : It didn't quite look like head-to-head. It looked like a crossing situation somewhat. The boat on the right is right, but both are at fault. Both boats should have turned to starboard. I don't see how you can say the faster boat would have or wouldn't have the ability to maneuver. Looks like plenty of sea room to me for both boats. Idiots.... It's the "nearly so" part of that statement that gets a lot of people in trouble. Yes, at the time of this video, the boat taking the video should have come right, but they are so close to that "nearly so" that I wonder about the perspective leading up to this. BG not sure I'm explaining this correctly I get it... seems like unless we're really missing a lot of the perspective, the boat taking the vid should have changed taken evasive action well before getting into this spot. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#16
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Who's at fault here
"tom" wrote in message
ups.com... On Oct 18, 11:48 am, Paul Cassel wrote: Joe wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hrUSs9ndA&NR=1 the boat from which the pix were taken based on all rules I know of. Possible that this was on a lake in some nation with different rules. I like this one better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkqKpnU8sCE The people on the ferry summed it up nicely. BG -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#17
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Who's at fault here
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:00:02 -0700, Joe wrote:
On Oct 17, 10:37 pm, otnmbrd wrote: Naturally the video is only of the last moments so we can't see what led up to the collision, but if this was a normal head to head or nearly so they both screwed up in many ways.... especially the boat the video was being shot from. Seems the guy on the small boat did a quick half turn to port then decides to stay on course, and the big boat is clueless. The shaking of a fist in the air must be a local custom on the big boat Clowns on auto pilots IMO. At the start you notice there is a fleet of small vessels heading out all following the exact course. I bet it's an area with heavy regular crossing situations. Both Captains assuming the other will give way, until it's to late. I've really noticed this the last few years, now that everyone has GPS chart plotters and autopilot. Despite a whole ocean to spread out into, we're all traveling along the same "ant lines" -- drawn between the same waypoints on the same popular routes. The close calls are becoming more frequent, and closer. Years ago we weren't shaving our waypoints so closely, or steering as straight. Unfortunately some of the worst games of "chicken" that I've seen were by skippers of really large powerboats, who were probably professional captains. I wish I had video to send to the Coast Guard. Most people do play it safe though. Matt O. |
#18
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Who's at fault here
"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message news On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:00:02 -0700, Joe wrote: On Oct 17, 10:37 pm, otnmbrd wrote: Naturally the video is only of the last moments so we can't see what led up to the collision, but if this was a normal head to head or nearly so they both screwed up in many ways.... especially the boat the video was being shot from. Seems the guy on the small boat did a quick half turn to port then decides to stay on course, and the big boat is clueless. The shaking of a fist in the air must be a local custom on the big boat Clowns on auto pilots IMO. At the start you notice there is a fleet of small vessels heading out all following the exact course. I bet it's an area with heavy regular crossing situations. Both Captains assuming the other will give way, until it's to late. I've really noticed this the last few years, now that everyone has GPS chart plotters and autopilot. Despite a whole ocean to spread out into, we're all traveling along the same "ant lines" -- drawn between the same waypoints on the same popular routes. The close calls are becoming more frequent, and closer. Years ago we weren't shaving our waypoints so closely, or steering as straight. Unfortunately some of the worst games of "chicken" that I've seen were by skippers of really large powerboats, who were probably professional captains. I wish I had video to send to the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard? Just what are THEY gonna do about it? They're out there issuing licenses to admitted illegal recreational drug abusers so I guess they don't care a whole lot about operational safety in the first place. Greg |
#19
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Who's at fault here
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:59:04 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote: I get it... seems like unless we're really missing a lot of the perspective, the boat taking the vid should have changed taken evasive action well before getting into this spot. Yes, unless the smaller, faster boat maneuvered into an untenable situation. The bigger boat (where the video was taken) can not stop on a dime or turn sharply. If the small boat entered that danger zone, they share the blame at the very least. It would be a somewhat similar situation if you approached a tug and barge from the starboard side at the last minute. That was the basis for my original comment stating that faster more maneuverable boat has some obligation not to put themselves into harms way. |
#20
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Who's at fault here
Wayne.B wrote in
: On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:59:04 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: I get it... seems like unless we're really missing a lot of the perspective, the boat taking the vid should have changed taken evasive action well before getting into this spot. Yes, unless the smaller, faster boat maneuvered into an untenable situation. The bigger boat (where the video was taken) can not stop on a dime or turn sharply. If the small boat entered that danger zone, they share the blame at the very least. It would be a somewhat similar situation if you approached a tug and barge from the starboard side at the last minute. That was the basis for my original comment stating that faster more maneuverable boat has some obligation not to put themselves into harms way. I can't really agree with you here. Speed and maneuverability are not factors under the Rules in the case we are looking at. First off, though the vessel the video was shot from is definitely larger, from what we see we cannot say what it's potential maneuverability is/was versus the smaller boat..... Secondly, if your boat is slower less maneuverable, then you should take action sooner, to avoid, and fast or slow, you have that obligation not to put yourself in harm's way. A. My main point is that video's such as this are generally too short to give enough background info to make a good decision as to what happened. B. From experience, the head to head or nearly so situation can frequently get out of hand and cause collisions due to slight visual perception differences and wrong direction turns to avoid ( the video shows a small angle crossing situation but this could have been something else earlier) C. BG In reality....lumbering big ship versus twin screw Donzi..... Donzi.....get the hell outa the way! (the Rules purist will have a ball with that statement) |
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