"misia" wrote in message
ail.from.there...

I agree electric heater might be the most energy hungry element,
especially if
the water has to be retained and temperature maintained in the tank for 10
people onboard.

This is something that I'm considering to built around hybrid solution.

I came accross this Webasto heater:

http://www.navstore.com/pdf/webasto/Webasto%20TSL17.pdf

What do you think?

I did not check your link, but what you might want to ask your engineer for
would be a design for a water-to-water (Glycol based)heat exchanger to keep
your shower water HOT. This could be done with off-the-shelf electric
components if you have the space, and need only be configured to your space
by your architect and engineer. The electric would be your seldom-used
backup, and you could have your choice of 120, 240, or custom voltage
standard mount heating elements (check off-the-grid, solar, and wind power
resources for these items).

Rob
*
*
*

Steve Lusardi wrote:

Mi,
I completely agree with you. Electric is the way to go for both safety and
convenience. I would not have gas unless CNG was available everywhere and
there is the rub. It isn't. The gas of popular choice is LPG and that is
heavier than air. CNG is not. So for me, the best of the rest was electric.
The other responders mentioned the impractcality of using 24V for heating
and cooking. They are correct. In order to be all electric, you must use
240V. Even 120V is impractical because of the wire size required. You need a
large generator, in fact you probably need 2. That means a big boat. The
other problem is the noise from a running generator. I have overcome this
problem with a shaft driven 6KW generator that is silent and a 35KW diesel
generator, but then I have the space. Please be careful of capturing heat
from your engine exhaust. Yes, it is possible, but if you take to much heat
out, you will create acidic deposits that will destroy 316. If you use a
fresh water exchanger and your hot water tank is up to temp and you continue
to run the engine, the exchanger overheats. So you need auxillary cooling,
when your heat demand is low. I guess there is no free lunch.
Steve
"misia" wrote in message
ail.from.there...
On my new boat I will have a powerfull 24VDC battery bank charged by a
diesel generator and auxiliary sources.

I did a bit of search but couldn't find much- are there any 24 VDC
appliances such as cooker/oven, fridge, AC and water heater you could
recommend?

I know I can run standard items through power inverter but I would
prefer not to do it for the sake of reliability/efficiency/cost. I wantMi,
to go totally electric (no gas)

Regards Mi


CNG is not heavier than air???


--

A friend is someone who knows you, understands the essential conflicts in your
thinking, in your morals, and in your philosophy, and like you anyway.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:02:37 -0600, Dazed and Confuzed
wrote:

CNG is not heavier than air???

=============================

No, it is lighter and will not accumulate in low places such as the
bilge. That has always been CNGs big selling point. For boats big
enough to have a generator/inverter/large battery bank, I'm a great
fan of electric stoves. I've owned an all electric boat for 4 years
now, do a lot of cruising "on the hook", and can't imagine ever going
back to a gas stove of any kind.

Wayne.B wrote:

For boats big
enough to have a generator/inverter/large battery bank, I'm a great
fan of electric stoves. I've owned an all electric boat for 4 years
now, do a lot of cruising "on the hook", and can't imagine ever going
back to a gas stove of any kind.

Just preference I guess, I have had my boat for about 7
years now and while it is big enough to have a couple of
gensets, an inverter, and a very large 120V battery bank I
love my propane stove and wouldn't give it up for anything.

Rick

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 06:42:21 GMT, Rick
wrote:

Just preference I guess, I have had my boat for about 7
years now and while it is big enough to have a couple of
gensets, an inverter, and a very large 120V battery bank I
love my propane stove and wouldn't give it up for anything.

=================================================

You're choice of course, but I'm not wild about having propane on a
boat, and the convenience of not having separate stove fuel to worry
about is kind of nice.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 06:42:21 GMT, Rick
wrote:

Just preference I guess, I have had my boat for about 7
years now and while it is big enough to have a couple of
gensets, an inverter, and a very large 120V battery bank I
love my propane stove and wouldn't give it up for anything.

=================================================

You're choice of course, but I'm not wild about having propane on a
boat, and the convenience of not having separate stove fuel to worry
about is kind of nice.

Wayne.B wrote:

For boats big
enough to have a generator/inverter/large battery bank, I'm a great
fan of electric stoves. I've owned an all electric boat for 4 years
now, do a lot of cruising "on the hook", and can't imagine ever going
back to a gas stove of any kind.

Just preference I guess, I have had my boat for about 7
years now and while it is big enough to have a couple of
gensets, an inverter, and a very large 120V battery bank I
love my propane stove and wouldn't give it up for anything.

Rick

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:02:37 -0600, Dazed and Confuzed
wrote:

CNG is not heavier than air???

=============================

No, it is lighter and will not accumulate in low places such as the
bilge. That has always been CNGs big selling point. For boats big
enough to have a generator/inverter/large battery bank, I'm a great
fan of electric stoves. I've owned an all electric boat for 4 years
now, do a lot of cruising "on the hook", and can't imagine ever going
back to a gas stove of any kind.

Steve Lusardi wrote:

If you use a
fresh water exchanger and your hot water tank is up to temp and you continue
to run the engine, the exchanger overheats. So you need auxillary cooling,
when your heat demand is low. I guess there is no free lunch.

??? Are you suggesting there are systems out there that use
the domestic hot water system as a heat sink for the engine
cooling requirements? Or that someone would install a heat
exchanger that is rated at a lower temperature than the
operating temperature of the engine cooling circuit?

Something is missing here.

Rick

That means a big boat.

Thanks to all posters for feedback.
I have the luxury of a big cat and big battery bank.

I'm not worried about the fridge , it's maybe 300W/24 hrs average in tropics
and half of this in the north.

As for the cooker- two hot plates at 1KW each seems a lot but given you use it
for 1 hour/day it translates to something like 2kW/24 = 83 Watts average @ 24
hrs and I think it's well worth it given the safety,cost, convenience and
simplicity advantages.

Same goes for coffee maker etc.

I did do my math before posting here and I understand how amps/watts etc add up.
I agree higher voltage would be nice but we are stack with 24V and don't expect
to be running generator at all times. Also we have luxury of designing
everything from scratch as the boat is being built and can acommodate locations.
In other words instead of long thick wires we can make them short for equipment
which consumes a lot of ampers. I'm trying to be smart but not always
conventional with this.

I agree electric heater might be the most energy hungry element, especially if
the water has to be retained and temperature maintained in the tank for 10
people onboard.

This is something that I'm considering to built around hybrid solution.

I came accross this Webasto heater:

http://www.navstore.com/pdf/webasto/Webasto%20TSL17.pdf

What do you think?

Another thing is - I'm wondering if we need a water tank at all? It takes lost
of gallons to shower 10 people- it cost money and space. I remember seeing in
some country (not US) showers with built in electric heater element which will
simply just warm up water passing through a piece of the size of grapefruit.

Regards M