On 2007-10-01 13:13:15 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

"Ernest Scribbler" wrote in message
et...
"Skip Gundlach" wrote
Nice parody. Aside from the brute force tool
(I use something which is directed, not swung),
not too far off our early realities.

Classy.
Some folks might have posted a smart reply.
Yours was pleasant.

Yes, it was! Darn it all! Maybe there's more to Skippy than meets the eye . . .

Wilbur Hubbard

I was going to respond to a different post, but I like this one better
so am reusing it.

Saturday, I ignored the small craft advisories (which mean something to
our light-air cork) and blasted down to Annapolis to try to find Flying
Pig. Succeeded, and the trip was worth the beating.

Skip, Lydia and their "Mum" are charming, and Flying Pig has been
wonderfully rebuilt with just about every system a technophile could
desire.

What struck me almost immediately, though, was a reminder of how *new*
they are to cruising -- and sailing. After I sailed around FP and Lydia
tied Xan alongside as if she'd done it a thousand times, she remarked
it was the first time they'd ever rafted up, one of so many "first
times" on this trip.

All things considered, my wife Pat probably has more onboard experience
than they, even though I allow Pat a life of leisure onboard and
single-hand most of the time.

Considering that, it's astounding that they haven't given up in dismay.
Far less severe challenges early-on nearly scared Pat off of Xan and
boating.

In my view, their primary errors were (and this won't be news to them):
1) Rushing. Trying to run before "walk" has been mastered.
2) Having and relying on too many complex onboard systems, particularly
as most were unproven and have since been discovered to be NFG. (clean
version: not found good).

Skip and Lydia are compressing the learning curve of sailing and
cruising beyond I would consider sanity. That they can be as intensely
sane as I found them to be is a wonder.

That Skip can be so comfortable about documenting all of their
beginners errors (so other beginners can learn from their mistakes) and
be so undefensive about the rude remarks engendered is another wonder.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:11:15 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

That Skip can be so comfortable about documenting all of their
beginners errors (so other beginners can learn from their mistakes) and
be so undefensive about the rude remarks engendered is another wonder.

Agreed.

The good news is that there my be a good book opportunity someday if
collected and edited.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:11:15 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

In my view, their primary errors were (and this won't be news to them):
1) Rushing. Trying to run before "walk" has been mastered.
2) Having and relying on too many complex onboard systems, particularly
as most were unproven and have since been discovered to be NFG. (clean
version: not found good).

This may be more common than we may think.

I just spent 3 days in Baltimore inner harbor docked next to a couple
on a very nice 55 ft ketch. They are from the Great Lakes and have
never sailed over night or made an offshore passage of any type.

That said, they are planning to go offshore from the southern
Chesapeake in late October and sail non-stop to the AVI/BVI without
benefit of a stop in Bermuda. From there they are planning to sail
around the world. I just didn't have the heart to tell them what I
thought of the whole idea. Hopefully we won't be reading about them
but you have to wonder.

On Oct 2, 8:44 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:11:15 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:
In my view, their primary errors were (and this won't be news to them):
1) Rushing. Trying to run before "walk" has been mastered.
2) Having and relying on too many complex onboard systems, particularly
as most were unproven and have since been discovered to be NFG. (clean
version: not found good).

This may be more common than we may think.

Hopefully we won't be reading about them
but you have to wonder.



God bless those sent to rescue them.

No, very common I think. At an early age walking on a streach of empty
beach in 1966 my friend Larry and I saw the remains of a sanded in
steel sail boat just up from the nights high tide. It was a story Ive
grown wear of hearing:


Kids gone
Couple retires both 63 PLUS years. Of course comes blood preasure
meds, etc.
They sells everything.
Life dream to sail the world on blissful seas without a care. Wife
says okay.............. sorta.
Buys boat.
Has to leave on XYZ but is a month late because 123.
They leave.
Get sick, get dehydrated, lay on the floor, get knocked around, break
a rib.
They die or get rescued and for the next few years he sits on the boat
having a drinking and dreaming of what could have been.
He gets sick.
The boat sits
He dies.
The boat sits more.
It rots
The wife hates the boat and gets ****ed cause no body will give her
the money she thinks it should be wort. After all, "HE spent TOO damn
much money on it all thoes years, It ought to be worth more than
that!"
The end of a man
The end of a dream
The end of a good boat.

Bob

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 23:44:13 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:11:15 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

In my view, their primary errors were (and this won't be news to them):
1) Rushing. Trying to run before "walk" has been mastered.
2) Having and relying on too many complex onboard systems, particularly
as most were unproven and have since been discovered to be NFG. (clean
version: not found good).

This may be more common than we may think.

I just spent 3 days in Baltimore inner harbor docked next to a couple
on a very nice 55 ft ketch. They are from the Great Lakes and have
never sailed over night or made an offshore passage of any type.

That said, they are planning to go offshore from the southern
Chesapeake in late October and sail non-stop to the AVI/BVI without
benefit of a stop in Bermuda. From there they are planning to sail
around the world. I just didn't have the heart to tell them what I
thought of the whole idea. Hopefully we won't be reading about them
but you have to wonder.

That's a big first hop, and I don't know their capabilities.
My favorite cruiser journal so far is bumfuzzle.com.
A young couple, with virtually no sailing experience did a
circumnavigation in a 35' Wildcat (SA cat).
Sold everything in Chicago, bought the boat in Ft. Lauderdale, and
left from Miami to the Bahamas a couple months later, after I assume
boning up on boat parts and navigation.
They spent a few months in the Bahamas before heading for Panama.
I think their first overnighter wasn't until after they'd sailed in
and out of various Bahamas harbors for a few months.
They learned early how important it is to watch the weather and be
patient about departures, and aside from a couple mishaps had what
seemed to be a pretty smooth trip around the world.
Anyway, a good read. They caught a lot of flak from the "cruising
community" for their boldness, but had a hell of a good time.
The journal never makes a big deal of their mariner expertise, but
the results show they were smart, and on their toes.
I think their initial approach was a good one, taking some baby steps
first, unlike the couple you mentioned.

--Vic

On Oct 3, 4:59 am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 23:44:13 -0400, Wayne.B

They caught a lot of flak from the "cruising
community" for their boldness, but had a hell of a good time.

The journal never makes a big deal of their mariner expertise, but
the results show they were smart, and on their toes.


I think that is the key point, "smart and on their toes."



I think their initial approach was a good one, taking some baby steps
first, unlike the couple you mentioned.

--Vic-


Yup, "progressive approximations of a target behavior...." Its called
LEARNING! Some folks belive that sailing is all about sitting in the
cockpi,t drinking wine, and laughing with attractive friend. Heck,
thats what the glossy pics in the west marine catalogues show.

Met a couple in a few years back in Winchester Bay, OR. A couple
"financial advisors" bought a brand new 40' ice cream scoop stearned
somthing or another. He added gizmos and stainless stuff everywhere.
She drank wine and talked. She colleced the corks of each bottle and
stuck around the salon on display. First voyage heading to Mexico:
Crossed the bar, small craft warnings went up, altnator light went on,
they turnd around and went back to the slip. Total time of dream
cruise to Mexico.................. about 6 hours. A voyage to nowhere.

Four years later the boat still sits. A liveabord said they show up a
few times a year to check on it. I think this is more common than
thought. just some conseal it better than others.
Bob

On 2007-10-02 23:44:13 -0400, Wayne.B said:

I just spent 3 days in Baltimore inner harbor docked next to a couple
on a very nice 55 ft ketch. They are from the Great Lakes and have
never sailed over night or made an offshore passage of any type.

That said, they are planning to go offshore from the southern
Chesapeake in late October and sail non-stop to the AVI/BVI without
benefit of a stop in Bermuda. From there they are planning to sail
around the world. I just didn't have the heart to tell them what I
thought of the whole idea. Hopefully we won't be reading about them
but you have to wonder.

You know, I was about to say that I wouldn't hesitate to advise them
against it, but then reread and thought: We could be described
similarly though I'm considered fairly competent by those whose
opinions matter to me, the ones who have done it.

With the right boat, I might do the same thing, *particularly* going
with the annual race between Norfolk and the BVI whose name escapes me.

The idea of doing that long first step then idling downwind back to the
Bahamas appeals to me. In addition, we'd be following the warmth north.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 01:02:12 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

You know, I was about to say that I wouldn't hesitate to advise them
against it, but then reread and thought: We could be described
similarly though I'm considered fairly competent by those whose
opinions matter to me, the ones who have done it.

It really comes down to more than competence in my opinion. There are
intangibles that come only from experience, and those lessons are best
learned in small doses where the situation is less likely to spiral
out of control when (not if) things start to go wrong. Boats and
people both react a great deal differently when offshore in blue
water, as opposed to coastal cruising in relatively protected water
with a nearby harbor readily at hand.

When the wind is blowing 25 to 30 kts things can get pretty ugly
offshore, people get fatigued and the gear is severely tested.

I tried to convince the owner to plan a stop in Bermuda but was
unsuccessful. That would have given them the equivalent of a 3 day
shake down cruise and a chance to regroup if things were going wrong.

Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 01:02:12 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

You know, I was about to say that I wouldn't hesitate to advise them
against it, but then reread and thought: We could be described
similarly though I'm considered fairly competent by those whose
opinions matter to me, the ones who have done it.

It really comes down to more than competence in my opinion. There are
intangibles that come only from experience, and those lessons are best
learned in small doses where the situation is less likely to spiral
out of control when (not if) things start to go wrong. Boats and
people both react a great deal differently when offshore in blue
water, as opposed to coastal cruising in relatively protected water
with a nearby harbor readily at hand.

When the wind is blowing 25 to 30 kts things can get pretty ugly
offshore, people get fatigued and the gear is severely tested.

I tried to convince the owner to plan a stop in Bermuda but was
unsuccessful. That would have given them the equivalent of a 3 day
shake down cruise and a chance to regroup if things were going wrong.

Are you saying it only takes 3 days to get to Bermuda? I thought it
was more like a week (depending on the wind). It takes a cruise ship
at 18 knots about 48 hours.

In any case, if they are going with the Caribbean 1500, they have to
have certain equipment, and they will have communication with others.
This is from the website:

Following the start, planned for Sunday, Nov 4th, participants will share positions twice daily during scheduled chat hours. Problems and solutions are discussed, as are privately arranged weather forecasts.The fleet will gather at the Bluewater Yachting Center in Hampton, VA, for several days of briefings and final preparations leading up to the start. All participants are invited and newer passage makers are encouraged to arrive two days early (November 1) for additional briefings and inspections.

Required Briefings for Skippers:

* Inspection Briefing, Medical Topics, Communications Briefing (procedures, schedules, frequencies), Sailing Instructions, Navigation and Landfall review
* Weather Briefing and Gulf Stream Analysis

Additional Briefings for Skippers and Crew:

* Women's Roundtables, Offshore Fishing Techniques, Life Raft Demonstration and Distress Signal Workshop, Sail Repair Workshop, Diesel Engine Troubleshooting Workshop
* Evening Social Gatherings

The Caribbean 1500 is both a rally and a cruise in company from the US to the British Virgin Islands. Some 900 boats have chosen to join the Caribbean 1500 in making their passage to the islands, and they find it a very special experience, as our many repeat participants attest. Once the fleet arrives at Tortola, nightly awards parties will bring participants together to swap experiences and exchange cruising plans. The passage typically takes 6-10 days

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 11:34:09 -0400, Rosalie B.
wrote:

Are you saying it only takes 3 days to get to Bermuda?

55 foot boat, decent reaching conditions, no problem making it in less
than 4 days.

I have made it from Newport, RI in less than 3 days but that was on a
fully crewed racing boat.