It seems like every joe blow average is cruising out there. Its like
Mount Everest, everyone is climbing it these days or trying to,
wearing designer climbing clothings listening to their ipods while
trying to reach the summit or dying in the process.

Why not rise above the crowd and learn celestial navigation. It is not
an obsolete skill and people respect those that know how to do it even
if they won't admit it.

wrote in :

because
GPS devices don't work that well in the middle of the
ocean and can malfunction if they get wet, etc.


Nonsense, pure nonsense. GPS runs on POLAR ORBIT, low earth orbit
satellites....not geostationary like XM with a certain area footprint.
The footprint of one satellite is a mere 150 miles under it...but there
are so MANY satellites in the huge constellation that there are always 8-
12 above the horizon ANYWHERE ON THE GLOBE, including the middle of any
ocean. The birds pass overhead and another bird comes up over the
horizon to replace it.

Celestial Navigation, while quite romantic and "salty", are no longer
necessary for worldwide navigation.

Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

"roger" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 16, 1:23 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
wrote in message

...



I was just told by a friend that I should learn celestial
navigation before sailing around the world because
GPS devices don't work that well in the middle of the
ocean and can malfunction if they get wet, etc.

Does my friend have a point even if I intend to bring
3 independent GPS systems with me ?

How about if I just get a cheap sextant and the book
"Celestial Navigation When Your GPS Fails" and
bring them with me ?

TIA

Don't worry about it. Just get a plastic sextant, an instruction book
and some HO 249 tables. Any moron can learn celestial on the fly. I
learned it on the fly in two days, enough to make a cocked hat about
a
mile on a side. Still, for a man who loves precision, I prefer GPS.
Consider getting at least one GPS portable that uses the Russian
constellation in case the US constellation gets shot down by the
Chinese
one of these days. Portables are pretty immune from going to hell
provided they are kept in a water proof case like a Pelican case and
then stored inside a metal case. Even a lighting strike to the mother
ship rarely harms them. If you're paranoid, store three or four
portables in different places around the ship. Get plenty of
batteries
or have a means to charge rechargeable batteries independent of the
motor. (solar)

Wilbur Hubbar
Electronics fail. It's one of the constants on a boat in a salt water
environment. Celestial navigation is not for morons, GPS receivers
are. Intelligent blue water sailors learn celestial navigation. It
is the back up. It can save your life. Don't think of it as a chore,
it is part of the fun of blue water sailing if you let it be.


If you carry multiple GPS backups the chance of all of them going bad on
a circumnavigation is less than the chances of your dropping your
sextant overboard.

I didn't say celestial navigation was for morons. I said even a moron
could learn it. It isn't that hard. Even that 14-year-old girl Tanya
Aebi of "Maiden Voyage" fame who circumnavigated learned it as she went.
And that was before they even had GPS. BTW, I heard she's in the
process of going round again. This time with her 14-year-old son and a
bigger boat. Time flies. . .

Wilbur Hubbard

Larry wrote in news:Xns99ADAD78CF807noonehomecom@
208.49.80.253:



Celestial Navigation, while quite romantic and "salty", are no longer
necessary for worldwide navigation.

Larry

No longer necessary, true, but for a long distance sailor the ability to
use it can/could come in handy for many reasons.
Hell, we could say that the Mark 1 eyeball or soundings are no longer
necessary, but we still use them and find good reasons to do so.

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:28:42 -0400, Wilbur Hubbard wrote:



Even that 14-year-old girl Tanya Aebi

Assuming that's not a typo, Tania was a little older than that. She started off when she was 18.

brucepaige wrote:
How come all the advocates of a relative low tech method of
determining a position never mention that the system is unusable for
navigation in tight spaces, narrow channels, etc. and dead reckoning
or taking sights or measuring depth will be necessary.

I never hear anyone recommend having a lead line on board in case your
electronic depth sounder fails or a chip log mounted on the stern
pulpit in case your electronic speed log fails.

I see a number of arguments in this discussion. Fist, GPS recievers,
like all electronics are prone to occasional errors and failures. There
are numerous stories that abound in cruiser's logs on the net of GPS
readings that reported the boat to be a half mile or so inland, or in
the middle of a channel but the boat hits a charted reef, etc. There
are perhaps hundreds or maybe thousands of places around the world that
have innacurate GPS coordinates or innacurate maps used for the GPS
data. The Garmin chartplotter on the boat I usually sail on shows us on
land when we are in the middle of the channel in home port (and yes, the
settings are correct for the charts). So other forms of measurement are
always appropriate to know. And like it or not, the Pentagon did shut
down the satellite system for one day, and can do that anytime again,
not to mention the likelyhood of the system having problems as the
satellites age. And since I both sail and work on boats I can tell you
that both the depth sounders and speed logs do fail with amazing regularity.
Red

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:06:00 -0000, otnmbrd
wrote:

Larry wrote in news:Xns99ADAD78CF807noonehomecom@
208.49.80.253:



Celestial Navigation, while quite romantic and "salty", are no longer
necessary for worldwide navigation.

Larry

No longer necessary, true, but for a long distance sailor the ability to
use it can/could come in handy for many reasons.
Hell, we could say that the Mark 1 eyeball or soundings are no longer
necessary, but we still use them and find good reasons to do so.


You know it's kind of funny. Everyone talks about using an archaic
method of determining position and never mention using either a lead
line to determine depth or a chip log to determine speed.

How come all the advocates of a relative low tech method of
determining a position never mention that the system is unusable for
navigation in tight spaces, narrow channels, etc. and dead reckoning
or taking sights or measuring depth will be necessary.

I never hear anyone recommend having a lead line on board in case your
electronic depth sounder fails or a chip log mounted on the stern
pulpit in case your electronic speed log fails.

I am not saying that one shouldn't learn celestial navigation or not
carry extra life jackets but it is no longer a necessary skill.




Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

wrote:

You know it's kind of funny. Everyone talks about using an archaic
method of determining position and never mention using either a lead
line to determine depth or a chip log to determine speed.

I carry a lead line, and use it on occasion, usually when moored in very
tight quarters. I also have a knot log, but that's a display item at
home. However, for many years I estimated speed by tossing a piece of
paper overboard and timing its travel alongside. In a few minutes
anyone can make a "chip log table" calibrated for their boat.

The difference is that anyone can tie a wrench on a rope and they have a
lead line. No special equipment or training is needed, just a bit of
common sense.


How come all the advocates of a relative low tech method of
determining a position never mention that the system is unusable for
navigation in tight spaces, narrow channels, etc. and dead reckoning
or taking sights or measuring depth will be necessary.

A sextant can be helpful for coastal navigation, but celestial clearly
has its limitations. And I will admit that my new chartplotter allowed
me to go places in the Maine fog this summer that I never would have in
the past.

The more interesting question would be how many boats practice basic
plotting such as running fixes? How many turn off their GPS for a day
and run down the coast with bearings? How many use the depth sounder
for part of their fix? These are the skills that should be learned.



I never hear anyone recommend having a lead line on board in case your
electronic depth sounder fails

I've mentioned it several times. But its so obvious, I didn't think it
needed daily comment.

or a chip log mounted on the stern
pulpit in case your electronic speed log fails.

My speed log is so unreliable I never expect it to run!


I am not saying that one shouldn't learn celestial navigation or not
carry extra life jackets but it is no longer a necessary skill.

Its surprising how many of the old timers actually didn't know
celestial. Before radio an accurate clock was needed for longitude, and
that was beyond the budget of a lot of ships. For all the talk of the
lunar methods, very few mariners actually used it.

FWIW, I have five sextants, but have not carried one on board in six
years. If I did a long ocean crossing, however, I would carry one just
for the practice.

"jeff" wrote in message
...
wrote:


I carry a lead line, and use it on occasion, usually when
moored in very
tight quarters.

when anchoring in shallow water, I use my boat hook to check
the bottom.

SBV

wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:06:00 -0000, otnmbrd
wrote:

Larry wrote in news:Xns99ADAD78CF807noonehomecom@
208.49.80.253:


Celestial Navigation, while quite romantic and "salty", are no longer
necessary for worldwide navigation.

Larry
No longer necessary, true, but for a long distance sailor the ability to
use it can/could come in handy for many reasons.
Hell, we could say that the Mark 1 eyeball or soundings are no longer
necessary, but we still use them and find good reasons to do so.


You know it's kind of funny. Everyone talks about using an archaic
method of determining position and never mention using either a lead
line to determine depth or a chip log to determine speed.

How come all the advocates of a relative low tech method of
determining a position never mention that the system is unusable for
navigation in tight spaces, narrow channels, etc. and dead reckoning
or taking sights or measuring depth will be necessary.

I never hear anyone recommend having a lead line on board in case your
electronic depth sounder fails or a chip log mounted on the stern
pulpit in case your electronic speed log fails.

I am not saying that one shouldn't learn celestial navigation or not
carry extra life jackets but it is no longer a necessary skill.




Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)
Does anyone doubt that Columbus or Slocum would have passed on using a
GPS had it been available?
G