While I am personally all for blowing pirates to their eternal reward, I
have to imagine that there might be legal repercussions to such activities.
Unless, of course, you have obtained your Letter of Marque prior to going
cruising. ;-)

--
Karin Conover-Lewis
Fair and Balanced since 1959
klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net


"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On 01 Jan 2004 06:50:42 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

you need a gun, a shotgun, a revolver, a machine gun, a grenade launcher,
a
machette, a Swiss Army knife, a Boy Scout knife, a paring knife, a box
cutter,
a fingernail clipper and a frickin' brain.

Trollin' aside, I have a German friend who says you only need Russian
hand grenades, easily obtained in many places according to him. Off
of Thailand he was attacked single handing his boat by a high speed
boat. They shot over his head but didn't shoot directly at the prize
they were after, his yacht. When they came within throwing range he
simply dropped one of these grenades into the boat before the boarders
could reach his rail and they were so busy scrambling in the bilge for
the "egg" they veered off before it exploded.

The effect was devastating, a total destruction. That was the only
place he's been attacked but his boat is full of the arms you make fun
of. He says anyone not heavily armed cruising anywhere is totally
crazy....

I can think of no easier targets than most of the yachtsmen I
know.....As a group, the moneyed elite are awfully naive. As to using
the radio, what's the point? Noone's going to help you except to
maybe come look for your body, floating face down long after it's
over. Hell, I'm amazed the local marinas aren't regularly ransacked,
here.

Since they are chartering a boat, I wouldn't be too worried about
pirates at sea. Your safety ashore is much more at risk if you are in
the tourist trap areas (pick pockets, etc.). Check out the Seven Seas
Cruising Association for Piracy reports. Most the of the Caribbean is
relatively safe with the exception of the Venezulian and Columbian
coasts. If pirates do come, they are after things they can easily
fence -small electronics, outboard motors, things easily carried off,
and of course, cash. Precautions at night are a must. Make sure they
know how to turn the deck lights on. This will scare away most
intruders if they are trying to climb aboard. Also, secure the dinghy
aboard if possible. I like to do this simply because storms can pop
up in the middle of the night and it's just one less thing to worry
about while fighting a dragging anchor.

In the Bahama's a favorite trick for thieves is to strip naked, cover
themselves in vasoline, and climb aboard at night when everyone is
asleep or possibly ashore passed out at a tavern. Being naked and
greased up makes it hard for you to grab hold of them. I've read
reports about outboard motors that were locked to the transom of a
dinghy being stolen with the use of a chainsaw. The thieves cut the
transom off the boat and walked away with the outboard, transom in
tow.

As a side note, I have a number of friends that have cruised the
caribbean extensively and even gone down the coast of South America
all the away to the tip of Argentina. They said guns are useful.
When trying to clear customs at a port, the officials will be so
worried about your gun that they often overlook things like expired
pet tags or other goods in the boat that have not been declared. They
carried a shotgun around just as a destractor for customs.

Dan Schiro
M/V Sea Ranch
Pensacola Sail and Power Squadron

(Curtis CCR) wrote in message . com...
I enjoyed the movie - it's my favorite ride a Disneyland... but I was
looking for up-to-date opinions on the threat of piracy in the
Caribbean. If you go to Google and search of information, all you get
is the movie stuff etc. Try changing the word to "Piracy" with
Caribean and you get hits related to offshore software theft....

I have no experience with small boat cruising in the Caribbean. An
aquantance of mine is looking into a bareboat charter in the area.
She was online discussing it with someone that started filling her
head with concerns about pirates. Sounded like she was really freaked
by the thought of their boat being boarded by thugs and her and her
friends being beaten, robbed, raped.... or worse.

She lives in Piedmont - a part of Oakland, CA. I told her she was
probably more likely to get carjacked in her own neighborhood, than
hijacked on a boat south of Florida. But I also told her I told her I
would ask about it.

So what parts of the Caribbean would be considered "high risk" for a
small group of young adults on a 50-something foot sailboat? I don't
imagine that the demographic make up of the group or the size of the
boats makes a difference - but if it does...

While I myself might be prepared to go such a cruise armed in some
way, I am hesitant, for a couple of reasons, to to suggest to her that
someone on the trip should have a gun. Primarily, I am concerned that
saying something like, "maybe you should have a gun on board," would
make it sound like she should be worried. Secondly, I don't know if
she or any of her companions know how to handle a gun in such a
situation.

I don't want this to be a gun issue, but I know someone is going to
bring it up ... and I'll likely be sorry it was me.

Let me "bottom line" with a general question. What personal security
risks should be considered for someone considering a bareboat charter
in the Caribbean?

Thanks in advance.

Since they are chartering a boat, I wouldn't be too worried about
pirates at sea. Your safety ashore is much more at risk if you are in
the tourist trap areas (pick pockets, etc.). Check out the Seven Seas
Cruising Association for Piracy reports. Most the of the Caribbean is
relatively safe with the exception of the Venezulian and Columbian
coasts. If pirates do come, they are after things they can easily
fence -small electronics, outboard motors, things easily carried off,
and of course, cash. Precautions at night are a must. Make sure they
know how to turn the deck lights on. This will scare away most
intruders if they are trying to climb aboard. Also, secure the dinghy
aboard if possible. I like to do this simply because storms can pop
up in the middle of the night and it's just one less thing to worry
about while fighting a dragging anchor.

In the Bahama's a favorite trick for thieves is to strip naked, cover
themselves in vasoline, and climb aboard at night when everyone is
asleep or possibly ashore passed out at a tavern. Being naked and
greased up makes it hard for you to grab hold of them. I've read
reports about outboard motors that were locked to the transom of a
dinghy being stolen with the use of a chainsaw. The thieves cut the
transom off the boat and walked away with the outboard, transom in
tow.

As a side note, I have a number of friends that have cruised the
caribbean extensively and even gone down the coast of South America
all the away to the tip of Argentina. They said guns are useful.
When trying to clear customs at a port, the officials will be so
worried about your gun that they often overlook things like expired
pet tags or other goods in the boat that have not been declared. They
carried a shotgun around just as a destractor for customs.

Dan Schiro
M/V Sea Ranch
Pensacola Sail and Power Squadron

(Curtis CCR) wrote in message . com...
I enjoyed the movie - it's my favorite ride a Disneyland... but I was
looking for up-to-date opinions on the threat of piracy in the
Caribbean. If you go to Google and search of information, all you get
is the movie stuff etc. Try changing the word to "Piracy" with
Caribean and you get hits related to offshore software theft....

I have no experience with small boat cruising in the Caribbean. An
aquantance of mine is looking into a bareboat charter in the area.
She was online discussing it with someone that started filling her
head with concerns about pirates. Sounded like she was really freaked
by the thought of their boat being boarded by thugs and her and her
friends being beaten, robbed, raped.... or worse.

She lives in Piedmont - a part of Oakland, CA. I told her she was
probably more likely to get carjacked in her own neighborhood, than
hijacked on a boat south of Florida. But I also told her I told her I
would ask about it.

So what parts of the Caribbean would be considered "high risk" for a
small group of young adults on a 50-something foot sailboat? I don't
imagine that the demographic make up of the group or the size of the
boats makes a difference - but if it does...

While I myself might be prepared to go such a cruise armed in some
way, I am hesitant, for a couple of reasons, to to suggest to her that
someone on the trip should have a gun. Primarily, I am concerned that
saying something like, "maybe you should have a gun on board," would
make it sound like she should be worried. Secondly, I don't know if
she or any of her companions know how to handle a gun in such a
situation.

I don't want this to be a gun issue, but I know someone is going to
bring it up ... and I'll likely be sorry it was me.

Let me "bottom line" with a general question. What personal security
risks should be considered for someone considering a bareboat charter
in the Caribbean?

Thanks in advance.

"being stolen with the use of a chainsaw. The thieves cut the
transom off the boat and walked away with the outboard, transom in
tow."

So why not steal the dinghy AND o/b?
Also chainsaw with a "silencer"?

"carried a shotgun around just as a destractor for customs."
This is a good one!
ROTFL

--
c ya Wim
www.cruising.ca/thousand/f-index.html


"Dan" wrote in message
om...
: Since they are chartering a boat, I wouldn't be too worried about
: pirates at sea. Your safety ashore is much more at risk if you are in
: the tourist trap areas (pick pockets, etc.). Check out the Seven Seas
: Cruising Association for Piracy reports. Most the of the Caribbean is
: relatively safe with the exception of the Venezulian and Columbian
: coasts. If pirates do come, they are after things they can easily
: fence -small electronics, outboard motors, things easily carried off,
: and of course, cash. Precautions at night are a must. Make sure they
: know how to turn the deck lights on. This will scare away most
: intruders if they are trying to climb aboard. Also, secure the dinghy
: aboard if possible. I like to do this simply because storms can pop
: up in the middle of the night and it's just one less thing to worry
: about while fighting a dragging anchor.
:
: In the Bahama's a favorite trick for thieves is to strip naked, cover
: themselves in vasoline, and climb aboard at night when everyone is
: asleep or possibly ashore passed out at a tavern. Being naked and
: greased up makes it hard for you to grab hold of them. I've read
: reports about outboard motors that were locked to the transom of a
: dinghy being stolen with the use of a chainsaw. The thieves cut the
: transom off the boat and walked away with the outboard, transom in
: tow.
:
: As a side note, I have a number of friends that have cruised the
: caribbean extensively and even gone down the coast of South America
: all the away to the tip of Argentina. They said guns are useful.
: When trying to clear customs at a port, the officials will be so
: worried about your gun that they often overlook things like expired
: pet tags or other goods in the boat that have not been declared. They
: carried a shotgun around just as a destractor for customs.
:
: Dan Schiro
: M/V Sea Ranch
: Pensacola Sail and Power Squadron
:
: (Curtis CCR) wrote in message
. com...
: I enjoyed the movie - it's my favorite ride a Disneyland... but I was
: looking for up-to-date opinions on the threat of piracy in the
: Caribbean. If you go to Google and search of information, all you get
: is the movie stuff etc. Try changing the word to "Piracy" with
: Caribean and you get hits related to offshore software theft....
:
: I have no experience with small boat cruising in the Caribbean. An
: aquantance of mine is looking into a bareboat charter in the area.
: She was online discussing it with someone that started filling her
: head with concerns about pirates. Sounded like she was really freaked
: by the thought of their boat being boarded by thugs and her and her
: friends being beaten, robbed, raped.... or worse.
:
: She lives in Piedmont - a part of Oakland, CA. I told her she was
: probably more likely to get carjacked in her own neighborhood, than
: hijacked on a boat south of Florida. But I also told her I told her I
: would ask about it.
:
: So what parts of the Caribbean would be considered "high risk" for a
: small group of young adults on a 50-something foot sailboat? I don't
: imagine that the demographic make up of the group or the size of the
: boats makes a difference - but if it does...
:
: While I myself might be prepared to go such a cruise armed in some
: way, I am hesitant, for a couple of reasons, to to suggest to her that
: someone on the trip should have a gun. Primarily, I am concerned that
: saying something like, "maybe you should have a gun on board," would
: make it sound like she should be worried. Secondly, I don't know if
: she or any of her companions know how to handle a gun in such a
: situation.
:
: I don't want this to be a gun issue, but I know someone is going to
: bring it up ... and I'll likely be sorry it was me.
:
: Let me "bottom line" with a general question. What personal security
: risks should be considered for someone considering a bareboat charter
: in the Caribbean?
:
: Thanks in advance.

"being stolen with the use of a chainsaw. The thieves cut the
transom off the boat and walked away with the outboard, transom in
tow."

So why not steal the dinghy AND o/b?
Also chainsaw with a "silencer"?

"carried a shotgun around just as a destractor for customs."
This is a good one!
ROTFL

--
c ya Wim
www.cruising.ca/thousand/f-index.html


"Dan" wrote in message
om...
: Since they are chartering a boat, I wouldn't be too worried about
: pirates at sea. Your safety ashore is much more at risk if you are in
: the tourist trap areas (pick pockets, etc.). Check out the Seven Seas
: Cruising Association for Piracy reports. Most the of the Caribbean is
: relatively safe with the exception of the Venezulian and Columbian
: coasts. If pirates do come, they are after things they can easily
: fence -small electronics, outboard motors, things easily carried off,
: and of course, cash. Precautions at night are a must. Make sure they
: know how to turn the deck lights on. This will scare away most
: intruders if they are trying to climb aboard. Also, secure the dinghy
: aboard if possible. I like to do this simply because storms can pop
: up in the middle of the night and it's just one less thing to worry
: about while fighting a dragging anchor.
:
: In the Bahama's a favorite trick for thieves is to strip naked, cover
: themselves in vasoline, and climb aboard at night when everyone is
: asleep or possibly ashore passed out at a tavern. Being naked and
: greased up makes it hard for you to grab hold of them. I've read
: reports about outboard motors that were locked to the transom of a
: dinghy being stolen with the use of a chainsaw. The thieves cut the
: transom off the boat and walked away with the outboard, transom in
: tow.
:
: As a side note, I have a number of friends that have cruised the
: caribbean extensively and even gone down the coast of South America
: all the away to the tip of Argentina. They said guns are useful.
: When trying to clear customs at a port, the officials will be so
: worried about your gun that they often overlook things like expired
: pet tags or other goods in the boat that have not been declared. They
: carried a shotgun around just as a destractor for customs.
:
: Dan Schiro
: M/V Sea Ranch
: Pensacola Sail and Power Squadron
:
: (Curtis CCR) wrote in message
. com...
: I enjoyed the movie - it's my favorite ride a Disneyland... but I was
: looking for up-to-date opinions on the threat of piracy in the
: Caribbean. If you go to Google and search of information, all you get
: is the movie stuff etc. Try changing the word to "Piracy" with
: Caribean and you get hits related to offshore software theft....
:
: I have no experience with small boat cruising in the Caribbean. An
: aquantance of mine is looking into a bareboat charter in the area.
: She was online discussing it with someone that started filling her
: head with concerns about pirates. Sounded like she was really freaked
: by the thought of their boat being boarded by thugs and her and her
: friends being beaten, robbed, raped.... or worse.
:
: She lives in Piedmont - a part of Oakland, CA. I told her she was
: probably more likely to get carjacked in her own neighborhood, than
: hijacked on a boat south of Florida. But I also told her I told her I
: would ask about it.
:
: So what parts of the Caribbean would be considered "high risk" for a
: small group of young adults on a 50-something foot sailboat? I don't
: imagine that the demographic make up of the group or the size of the
: boats makes a difference - but if it does...
:
: While I myself might be prepared to go such a cruise armed in some
: way, I am hesitant, for a couple of reasons, to to suggest to her that
: someone on the trip should have a gun. Primarily, I am concerned that
: saying something like, "maybe you should have a gun on board," would
: make it sound like she should be worried. Secondly, I don't know if
: she or any of her companions know how to handle a gun in such a
: situation.
:
: I don't want this to be a gun issue, but I know someone is going to
: bring it up ... and I'll likely be sorry it was me.
:
: Let me "bottom line" with a general question. What personal security
: risks should be considered for someone considering a bareboat charter
: in the Caribbean?
:
: Thanks in advance.

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:42:21 GMT, (Larry W4CSC) wrote:

I'd be very interested in more details about this attack, name of
boat, date of attack. etc. I have lived in Thailand for 30 years,
much of the time aboard a 40ft sloop, and have neither heard of this
event, nor have I talked to any yachty who has heard about it or
actually been exposed to a "pirate attack" in Thailand.

This is not to say that no pirate attacks have happened here, just
that in thirty years I am aware of one authenticated attack - twenty
years, or more ago,against a yacht, and the so called "pirates"
actually fishermen, made no attempt to molest any of the four persons
aboard the yacht and were arrested by the Songkla police within days
and some of the boat gear was recovered.

Certainly there have been pirate attacks but against comercial
vessels, lately mostly "trawlers" hauling illegial diesel fuel into
Thailand (fuel prices are 40 - 50% cheaper in Malaysia), however these
are actually a rarity.

Another thing that sounds a bit strange about the German story is that
in all of the cases of theft from boats the thiefs have taken easially
salable items; VHF, GPS, Compass, etc., never a complete yacht. Only a
few complete yachts have been stolen and in both of the cases I am
aware of they were stolen by foreigners, not "Thai Pirates". Due to
Thai customs laws it would be practically impossible for a pirate to
sell a foreign yacht in Thailand. In fact a cat, stolen in the Med was
recently recovered in Phuket by the local authorities and returned to
the owners.

This is not intended to make a case for "never been a pirate attack
here" but rather that there is a lot of rumers about things that never
happened.






On 01 Jan 2004 06:50:42 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

you need a gun, a shotgun, a revolver, a machine gun, a grenade launcher, a
machette, a Swiss Army knife, a Boy Scout knife, a paring knife, a box cutter,
a fingernail clipper and a frickin' brain.

Trollin' aside, I have a German friend who says you only need Russian
hand grenades, easily obtained in many places according to him. Off
of Thailand he was attacked single handing his boat by a high speed
boat. They shot over his head but didn't shoot directly at the prize
they were after, his yacht. When they came within throwing range he
simply dropped one of these grenades into the boat before the boarders
could reach his rail and they were so busy scrambling in the bilge for
the "egg" they veered off before it exploded.

The effect was devastating, a total destruction. That was the only
place he's been attacked but his boat is full of the arms you make fun
of. He says anyone not heavily armed cruising anywhere is totally
crazy....

I can think of no easier targets than most of the yachtsmen I
know.....As a group, the moneyed elite are awfully naive. As to using
the radio, what's the point? Noone's going to help you except to
maybe come look for your body, floating face down long after it's
over. Hell, I'm amazed the local marinas aren't regularly ransacked,
here.

Cheers,

anon
(reply to k4556[at]inet[dot]co[dot]th)

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:42:21 GMT, (Larry W4CSC) wrote:

I'd be very interested in more details about this attack, name of
boat, date of attack. etc. I have lived in Thailand for 30 years,
much of the time aboard a 40ft sloop, and have neither heard of this
event, nor have I talked to any yachty who has heard about it or
actually been exposed to a "pirate attack" in Thailand.

This is not to say that no pirate attacks have happened here, just
that in thirty years I am aware of one authenticated attack - twenty
years, or more ago,against a yacht, and the so called "pirates"
actually fishermen, made no attempt to molest any of the four persons
aboard the yacht and were arrested by the Songkla police within days
and some of the boat gear was recovered.

Certainly there have been pirate attacks but against comercial
vessels, lately mostly "trawlers" hauling illegial diesel fuel into
Thailand (fuel prices are 40 - 50% cheaper in Malaysia), however these
are actually a rarity.

Another thing that sounds a bit strange about the German story is that
in all of the cases of theft from boats the thiefs have taken easially
salable items; VHF, GPS, Compass, etc., never a complete yacht. Only a
few complete yachts have been stolen and in both of the cases I am
aware of they were stolen by foreigners, not "Thai Pirates". Due to
Thai customs laws it would be practically impossible for a pirate to
sell a foreign yacht in Thailand. In fact a cat, stolen in the Med was
recently recovered in Phuket by the local authorities and returned to
the owners.

This is not intended to make a case for "never been a pirate attack
here" but rather that there is a lot of rumers about things that never
happened.






On 01 Jan 2004 06:50:42 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

you need a gun, a shotgun, a revolver, a machine gun, a grenade launcher, a
machette, a Swiss Army knife, a Boy Scout knife, a paring knife, a box cutter,
a fingernail clipper and a frickin' brain.

Trollin' aside, I have a German friend who says you only need Russian
hand grenades, easily obtained in many places according to him. Off
of Thailand he was attacked single handing his boat by a high speed
boat. They shot over his head but didn't shoot directly at the prize
they were after, his yacht. When they came within throwing range he
simply dropped one of these grenades into the boat before the boarders
could reach his rail and they were so busy scrambling in the bilge for
the "egg" they veered off before it exploded.

The effect was devastating, a total destruction. That was the only
place he's been attacked but his boat is full of the arms you make fun
of. He says anyone not heavily armed cruising anywhere is totally
crazy....

I can think of no easier targets than most of the yachtsmen I
know.....As a group, the moneyed elite are awfully naive. As to using
the radio, what's the point? Noone's going to help you except to
maybe come look for your body, floating face down long after it's
over. Hell, I'm amazed the local marinas aren't regularly ransacked,
here.

Cheers,

anon
(reply to k4556[at]inet[dot]co[dot]th)

On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 08:30:14 -0500, "Bruce"
wrote:


He is every report of problems in the Caribbean in the last several years
http://www.caribcruisers.com/index.html


Bruce,

Looking at the list of incidents in the Caribbean is instructive.
Besides the numerous thefts or attempted thefts of dinks, there seems
to be an unusual number of boardings while people are asleep on the
boat. In these and the dink stealing instances, guns would be
useless. For the boardings some kind of intruder alarm would seem to
be the most valuable addition to a boat.

Even for those examples when people were robbed at gun point, having a
gun on board would probably not have been helpful. The victim was
usually off the boat and/or was surprised by the robber. If fact, as
I read the list, I could only detect a very few times when I gun on
board might have made the difference. I did not see a single time
when a boat load of armed men approached a boat directly in such a way
that the occupants would have the warning or time to get their gun.
Did I miss something?

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove

On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 08:30:14 -0500, "Bruce"
wrote:


He is every report of problems in the Caribbean in the last several years
http://www.caribcruisers.com/index.html


Bruce,

Looking at the list of incidents in the Caribbean is instructive.
Besides the numerous thefts or attempted thefts of dinks, there seems
to be an unusual number of boardings while people are asleep on the
boat. In these and the dink stealing instances, guns would be
useless. For the boardings some kind of intruder alarm would seem to
be the most valuable addition to a boat.

Even for those examples when people were robbed at gun point, having a
gun on board would probably not have been helpful. The victim was
usually off the boat and/or was surprised by the robber. If fact, as
I read the list, I could only detect a very few times when I gun on
board might have made the difference. I did not see a single time
when a boat load of armed men approached a boat directly in such a way
that the occupants would have the warning or time to get their gun.
Did I miss something?

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove

On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 10:54:55 -0600, "Karin Conover-Lewis"
wrote:

While I am personally all for blowing pirates to their eternal reward, I
have to imagine that there might be legal repercussions to such activities.
Unless, of course, you have obtained your Letter of Marque prior to going
cruising. ;-)

What activity? What pirate boat? I don't see any boats......

Dead men don't testify. It never happened.