please repost the original thread, I would be interested in distilling
water from the engine.
thanks


On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 01:42:39 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2007-09-08 21:40:35 -0400, Larry said:

in powerboats like trawlers, motor yachts, bubbleboats. Anything
guzzling that kind of fuel is making a LOT of waste heat and simply
dumping it overboard.

You might be surprised. Friend had a 42' trawler that used about 1 gph
to go 8-10 knots. New boat is 55', but still only uses about 3 gph for
slightly higher speeds. There's not that much waste heat to use.

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:14:21 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:56:08 -0000, "
wrote:

On Sep 10, 1:02 pm, Larry wrote:
... My discussion
involves a whole different way of distillation in POWER boats with ENGINES
running....not hermits living on the hook. ...

I take it from the nasty ad hominem zinger that I'm being a pain.
Sorry about that. Just for the record, there are many very desirable
cruising destinations that have plenty of people but not much fresh
water. In those spots an efficient water maker is a wonderful tool
for sociable cruisers. Also for the record, I'm not trying to be a
pain. But, at the risk of seeming negative, since you completely
ignored my question I'll ask it one more time: what is the motivation
to use steam distillation even in "POWER boats with ENGINES running"
when the same amount of heat differential would give you vastly more
fresh water if you used it to run R/O filtration?

My understanding is that Larry simply prefers distilled water, and has
given reasons why. Mineral content, and possible bacterial
contamination of RO water.
Though I am not well versed in this, and have not tested the waters.
distilled and RO are different, aren't they?
He never said distilling was more energy efficient than RO, but was
looking to capture engine waste heat to make distilling more efficient
than it is using conventional methods.
And if it could be done, it would be of benefit to sailboats too,
since they are often under power, and their engines waste many,
BTUs. Capturing wasted BTUs is the most important issue

Engine heat powered stills, in sizes suitable for yachts, were on the
market decades ago. RO killed the market for them.

Casady

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:16:55 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:39:21 -0700, "
wrote:


Capturing wasted BTUs is the most important issue.

Now you've confused me -- bless my heart I am dumber than a box of
rocks. I was good with "I steam distill water because I want steam
distilled water", but if capturing the BTUs is the most important
issue then why use an inefficient desalination system like steam
distilling?

Well, it's pretty well established - I think - that Larry doesn't want
RO water. He wants distilled water. You have said, "Steam distilled
water is a luxury version of drinking water."
IMO, Larry is not one bit averse to luxury.
At the same time, and perhaps in other threads, Larry has talked
about engine waste heat recovery as a separate issue.
And it is.
How the waste heat is used is a different matter entirely, though
Larry happened to be talking about distilling when it came up, or
maybe he was thinking about waste heat and distilling all at once.
Hell if I know.
But theoretically you may use the waste heat to generate electricity

The only really efficient way to convert fuel to shaft work is with a
diesel engine, and the small ones are nearly as good as very large
ones. Steam has to be huge to be efficient. I mean a cube 100 feet on
a side for the boiler. You could use the heat in the engine coolant to
boil propane, if you had cold water, 40F, say, that is. All engines
work on temperature differences. Heat moves from hot to cold, and you
can siphon off some of the energy as shaft work, if you are clever
enough.

to run RO, the TV, an A/C unit, etc, or to heat hot water for the
shower, or to distill.
The only one I see happening is heating the hot water tank,

This is on the market. Most engines are actually cooled by glycol,
which is, in turn, cooled by water. Fresh water or sea water, the
glycol, and the engine, don't care. You simply run hot engine coolant
into a coil in an insulated tank of water.

which
is closer to a distilling system than to a system that generates
electricity.

Exactly.

Hey, too bad they don't make thermal blankets/material that could
enclose an engine compartment and generate electricity from the heat.
I'm not up in physics, and don't know how solar cells work, whether
they use UV or IR, but they work.

You cannot get a solar cell to work on heat.

Engine heated fresh water stills were killed by RO.

Casady

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:47:13 -0700, "
wrote:

On Sep 10, 6:23 pm, Larry wrote:
" wrote groups.com:

but if capturing the BTUs is the most important
issue then why use an inefficient desalination system like steam
distilling?

Because boiling seawater into steam from the waste heat off an engine is
about as simple a thing to do as you can get. To make an RO run off waste
heat, you have to convert it to PRESSURE, probably to electricity to run
the RO's pump and computer, right? I want to simply boil seawater into
steam in heat exchangers running off hot exhaust gasses and engine
coolant....making distilled water for NOTHING in fuel and very little in
maintenance. ...


Simple is good. I wish you well with it.

Just so you know, RO doesn't need electricity any more than steam
does. You just need to push water through a membrane. My Spectra
system has only one electrical component and that's an off the shelf
pressure water pump. It has no electronics.

The lifeboat model has a hand pump. It is a filter and that is all it
is.

They used to sell stills that use engine heat, but I guess RO killed
them off.

Casady

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 01:42:39 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2007-09-08 21:40:35 -0400, Larry said:

in powerboats like trawlers, motor yachts, bubbleboats. Anything
guzzling that kind of fuel is making a LOT of waste heat and simply
dumping it overboard.

You might be surprised. Friend had a 42' trawler that used about 1 gph
to go 8-10 knots. New boat is 55', but still only uses about 3 gph for
slightly higher speeds. There's not that much waste heat to use.

Last time I was in New York I got a peek at Forbes' yacht. Goes 25 on
150 GPH. Has a helocopter on the rear deck, the kind shaped like an
egg.

Casady

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:35:54 +0000, Larry wrote:

Jere Lull wrote in news:2007091021343611272-
jerelull@maccom:

We have a filter and dedicated "drinking
water" tap at the kitchen sink.


What bothers me about "filters" is the same thing that bothers me about
RO. Whatever is filtered from the water backs up on whatever filter
media is used, whether it's a paper and carbon filter...or an expensive
RO membrane. In an undersink filter, with no backflush capability, there
it sets...for months...or YEARS....breaking down under the water pressure
and flow into SMALLER, less filterable, more toxic things. Once it has
broken down far enough, it passes THROUGH the filter into the drinking
supply...bacterial toxins that cause Legionaires' Disease is a good
example. Viruses are so small they aren't filtered in the first place!
The filters aren't molecular level. There are NO viruses in distilled
water....NOT EVEN DEAD ONES. Distilled water is safe even if the CIA
pours Anthrax into the water to reduce Social Security costs or for false
flag operations to keep us under control, a real possibility lately.

Am I better off filtering or drinking the water straight? Noone I can
find in the filter business wants to talk about what happens on the
pressure side of the filter element "as-time-goes-by". I can't even get
a straight answer from the SC Dept of Health and Environmental Control on
this subject. This may be because every coffee pot in every restaurant
has this little metal filter in its water supply line that is NEVER
changed unless the whole machine changes. I'm sure glad it's boiled
before I drink it! The iced tea is NOT! Most of it is just water poured
in as the tea brews...filtered, of course.

You say that viruses are smaller than sodium or chloride ions? I got
A's in college chemistry, and I have trouble believing it.

You say an RO filter doesn't work at molecular level? Just what would
call it then?

Casady

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:32:59 +0000, Larry wrote:

Works great,
change it every 100 gallons or when the water starts tasting slightly
metallic, indicating the carbon has loaded up with benzene, which
distillers also distill out of the water.

The CRC lists 15 substances with the same boiling point as water.
A simple still won't even remove alcohol or methanol, or acetic acid.
Of the hundreds of known chemicals with boiling points near water,
few, fortunately, are likely to be found in high seas water. Some
rivers are a different story. I would't trust some river water not to
attack gelcoat or aluminum. You wouldn't have the urge to put it in a
nice clean still. Distillation is OK but it costs a lot. In my
opinion, either RO or distilled water should be run through a carbon
filter. Gets the benzene and a lot more. Carbon ought to take out
'plastic taste' but I have not put it to the test.

Casady

On 2007-09-11 11:48:01 -0400, (Richard
Casady) said:

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 01:42:39 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2007-09-08 21:40:35 -0400, Larry said:

in powerboats like trawlers, motor yachts, bubbleboats. Anything
guzzling that kind of fuel is making a LOT of waste heat and simply
dumping it overboard.

You might be surprised. Friend had a 42' trawler that used about 1 gph
to go 8-10 knots. New boat is 55', but still only uses about 3 gph for
slightly higher speeds. There's not that much waste heat to use.

Last time I was in New York I got a peek at Forbes' yacht. Goes 25 on
150 GPH. Has a helocopter on the rear deck, the kind shaped like an egg.

THAT boat would have enough excess heat to boil some water, though
still (couldn't resist) less than their demands.

BTW, though I don't believe a small engine such as ours could
practically boil much water --that last degree to flash to steam is a
killer-- it seems a good idea to distill water drawn from the hot water
tank, gaining a good bit of the required BTUs for free.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2007-09-11 00:35:54 -0400, Larry said:

This may be because every coffee pot in every restaurant
has this little metal filter in its water supply line that is NEVER
changed unless the whole machine changes. I'm sure glad it's boiled
before I drink it!

Uh, Larry: They don't *boil* the water in most restaurants, only get it
pretty hot.

Years ago, I worked at a shore hotel where they had a large metal bowl
that held the grounds atop the carafe. A tube led down to the bottom of
the carafe. Water started in the carafe, boiled up into the bowl, then
was vacuumed down when the assemblage was removed from the heat.

Shame I didn't drink coffee then, as I was told it was excellent.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2007-09-11 12:06:19 -0400, (Richard
Casady) said:

You say that viruses are smaller than sodium or chloride ions? I got
A's in college chemistry, and I have trouble believing it.

As I understand him from the past, the viruses are broken down to toxic
chemicals that will pass.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/