wrote in news:1189028886.744618.98920
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

What is the motivation to use a distiller if you have a city water
supply?

My personal motivation is to stop the KIDNEY STONES! Charleston's
lakewater/riverwater public water supply is full of elemental dissolved
calcium, enough to make stalactites I think. The whole inside of my
distillers are coated with it, like concrete. It takes some exotic acid
to clean it out. If you've never had a kidney stone pass through the
plumbing, you cannot imagine the PAIN it causes.

My other motivation came after seeing what the distiller DIDN'T distill,
left concentrated in the bottom of its boiler! Lately, in the last
couple of months, the major residue looks like PLUFF MUD, the only way I
can describe it. Water bureaucrats don't want to talk about it, so I
found some public health bureaucrats at DHEC (Department of Health and
Environmental Control) who were much more interested...but may be afraid
to clash with the other bureaucrats. A coverup seems to be in the
making. If you leave a hose on the dock at any marina, the INSIDE of it
turns heavily GREEN with the algae load in the city water in a day!
NOONE leaves a water hose hooked to faucets. This can't be good for
anyone, especially growing children...which makes this more interesting.

Take a gallon of my home made water and sit it in the sun for a month.
NOTHING grows because NOTHING is in my drinking water....including the
flourides and chlorides the government is using to retard the population
growth. Did you know that water departments add chemicals to your
drinking water to REDUCE THE COPPER AND LEAD TEST RESULTS in the
water...instead of REPLACING the copper and lead pipes? I can't even
pronounce it. I'm sure as hell not going to INGEST it if I can stop it.
I try not to eat or drink anything I cannot pronounce or anything "they"
won't tell me what it is for. It has served me well, so far in life.

Why drink sewage when pure water is so simple to make and so cheap, about
25c/gallon at my awful electric rates. Even my parrots love it and have
never gotten sick in 25 years.


Also, is this unit really an option instead of a water-maker for
anchored sail-boats away from city water?
How does it compare at 4 gallons for 500 watts X 24 hours compared to
a water-maker?

The new unit I paid $9 for is a countertop unit that makes 1 gallon at a
time. I'm not sure it would survive long-term exposure to boiling off
seawater. It draws 1350 watts for about 2.5 hours to distill a gallon.
The book says 4 gallons per day. It never suffers from bacterial
breakdown behind an RO barrier contaminating its output.

What's way too bad on power boats is all that waste heat that COULD be
used to distill seawater into pure drinking water just goes up the stack,
or into the seawater cooling. This is CRAZY! All that wasted fuel could
be put to much better use BOILING SEAWATER in an evaporator, like the
Navy uses on ships but on a much smaller scale. We have coolants in
fresh water cooling systems that boil at much higher temperatures than
seawater. We could use other liquids that wouldn't eat the water jacket
but operate at, say, 250-300F in the water jackets, safely, then BOIL
SEAWATER INTO STEAM so we could use more seawater in a steam condensor to
come out with pure distilled fresh water to use in the
powerboat...recovering a useful product from the awful waste heat of the
internal combustion engine....instead of just dumping all that money
overboard. One interesting coolant comes to mind that costs
nothing....USED TRANSMISSION FLUID. Transmission fluid cooling in a
system lines would be as clean 20 years from now as they started...just
like the metal inside the transmission...PRESERVED! Transmission fluid
boils at some godawful high temperature, it's a coolant, already in the
transmission and torque converters. So, instead of dumping the
transmission fluid in the landfill after the engine has used it, why not
fill the fresh water cooling system with it?? The diesel runs
hotter....something diesels REALLY LOVE!....but not hot enough to destroy
the engine. Cooling with transmission fluid doesn't destroy rubber
transmission oil lines, preserves metals, etc., right? Not rocket
science. Transmissions are all oil cooled at much higher than 212F, too.
Transmission oil, used, is a free waste product. No need to buy coolant
that will not freeze. Why don't cars use it? Money for Moguls?

You can blame all this on my diesel vehicles running on free oil from
Chinese restaurants. It has made me think of other waste products that
could be useful to solve problems, not to mention recycle waste that's
drowning us.


Or is it really just for cleaning up the fresh water from your tank
before ingesting?


If you cleaned your tanks, sparkling clean, then poured filthy city water
into them full of crap and bugs and chemicals. What's the point of
cleaning them in the first place?


Larry
--
Wait until you taste a good coffee brewed with pure, not contaminated,
water....(c; I recommend a Lion brand of Kona from the slopes in Hawaii.

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 18:14:37 +0000, Larry wrote:

wrote in news:1189028886.744618.98920
:

What is the motivation to use a distiller if you have a city water
supply?

My personal motivation is to stop the KIDNEY STONES! Charleston's
lakewater/riverwater public water supply is full of elemental dissolved
calcium, enough to make stalactites I think. The whole inside of my
distillers are coated with it, like concrete. It takes some exotic acid
to clean it out. If you've never had a kidney stone pass through the
plumbing, you cannot imagine the PAIN it causes.

What's the cost of some common bottled water? Never drink it, but
maybe some brands are low in minerals.
My other motivation came after seeing what the distiller DIDN'T distill,
left concentrated in the bottom of its boiler! Lately, in the last
couple of months, the major residue looks like PLUFF MUD, the only way I
can describe it.

Nice description. I get it.

Why drink sewage when pure water is so simple to make and so cheap, about
25c/gallon at my awful electric rates. Even my parrots love it and have
never gotten sick in 25 years.

That's probably cheaper than store-bought. Do your parrots talk?
What do they actually *say* about that water?
BTW, I passed through Gila Bend, Arizona once. The cold water there
is about 120 F, and thick with minerals. I was in a grocery eyeing
the bottled water, but hate buying water. I asked the cashier if the
city water was safe, and she said "I've been drinking it 50 years, and
I'm doing just fine."
I said, "You misunderstand. I need it for my van's radiator."
As ugly as she was, I went ahead and bought a couple gallons.

snip heat exhanger/distiller stuff.

You should try something on that, but I'm pretty sure space and
complexity issues will keep it from happening.
What about cleaning up the RO issues you've pointed out.
Got anything for that?


--Vic

Vic Smith wrote in
:

What's the cost of some common bottled water? Never drink it, but
maybe some brands are low in minerals.


About $1/gallon, some more (designer labels from exotic places).
Distilled water has NO minerals. This is NOT harmful! Water is the
CLEANER for body waste, not a source of nutrients. Elemental molecules
in it simply make it less of a cleaner. Case in point, water with
dissolved calcium or iron, etc., is BAD FOR YOU. Your body doesn't get
iron from iron in the water or calcium for good bones from calcium. The
body makes PAINFUL kidney stones filtering the calcium out! I have many
first hand experiences!

The filter business lives to tell potential buyers how awful clean water
is for them...with no "nutrients" in it. It's a TOTAL LIE.



Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

Vic Smith wrote in
:

That's probably cheaper than store-bought. Do your parrots talk?
What do they actually *say* about that water?
BTW, I passed through Gila Bend, Arizona once. The cold water there
is about 120 F, and thick with minerals. I was in a grocery eyeing
the bottled water, but hate buying water. I asked the cashier if the
city water was safe, and she said "I've been drinking it 50 years, and
I'm doing just fine."
I said, "You misunderstand. I need it for my van's radiator."
As ugly as she was, I went ahead and bought a couple gallons.

snip heat exhanger/distiller stuff.

You should try something on that, but I'm pretty sure space and
complexity issues will keep it from happening.
What about cleaning up the RO issues you've pointed out.
Got anything for that?



Parrots both talk, INCESSANTLY. I wish they'd never learned....OR HEARD
AN ELECTRONIC TONE! Once learned, any sound is repeated, AD NAUSEUM!
It's only funny the first 3 days. Then it drives me CRAZY!

Luckily, there is an on-off switch! Simply cover the cages and they
sleep, giving you a break in blessed SILENCE! Too quiet at home? Get a
parrot!

Space is not a problem for an engine distiller. We simply replace the
water-cooling exhaust system with a primary boiler to suck the heat out
of the exhaust gasses, cooling the exhaust like we're doing now, by
making STEAM, not heating seawater. The same indirect engine cooling
system in use today, is replaced by a transmission oil primary loop
running at 300F, hot enough to heat a boiler to steam, and replace the
seawater cooling system with a seawater feedwater-to-steam plant,
complete with a backflush to wash out the salt when you shut it down.
The seawater steam condensor is simply a stainless steel version of the
freon condensor in any seawater cooled marine air condition you already
have on the boat. Seawater condenses the steam into pure water in a
stainless, not copper, pipe for collection and use. The heat transferred
to the seawater is dumped overboard or can be used to heat fresh water in
the water tank. Because steam gives up its heat in condensation, there's
LOTS of heat coming out of it.....nearly, we hope, 100% of the heat you
put in if there's no leakage...which is impossible. There's plenty of
hot seawater to heat the hot water tank on the way overboard.

A genset exhaust is also an excellent source for a seawater distiller
heat source....

Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:41:39 +0000, Larry wrote:

Vic Smith wrote in
:

That's probably cheaper than store-bought. Do your parrots talk?
What do they actually *say* about that water?
BTW, I passed through Gila Bend, Arizona once. The cold water there
is about 120 F, and thick with minerals. I was in a grocery eyeing
the bottled water, but hate buying water. I asked the cashier if the
city water was safe, and she said "I've been drinking it 50 years, and
I'm doing just fine."
I said, "You misunderstand. I need it for my van's radiator."
As ugly as she was, I went ahead and bought a couple gallons.

snip heat exhanger/distiller stuff.

You should try something on that, but I'm pretty sure space and
complexity issues will keep it from happening.
What about cleaning up the RO issues you've pointed out.
Got anything for that?



Parrots both talk, INCESSANTLY. I wish they'd never learned....OR HEARD
AN ELECTRONIC TONE! Once learned, any sound is repeated, AD NAUSEUM!
It's only funny the first 3 days. Then it drives me CRAZY!

Luckily, there is an on-off switch! Simply cover the cages and they
sleep, giving you a break in blessed SILENCE! Too quiet at home? Get a
parrot!

Space is not a problem for an engine distiller. We simply replace the
water-cooling exhaust system with a primary boiler to suck the heat out
of the exhaust gasses, cooling the exhaust like we're doing now, by
making STEAM, not heating seawater. The same indirect engine cooling
system in use today, is replaced by a transmission oil primary loop
running at 300F, hot enough to heat a boiler to steam, and replace the
seawater cooling system with a seawater feedwater-to-steam plant,
complete with a backflush to wash out the salt when you shut it down.
The seawater steam condensor is simply a stainless steel version of the
freon condensor in any seawater cooled marine air condition you already
have on the boat. Seawater condenses the steam into pure water in a
stainless, not copper, pipe for collection and use. The heat transferred
to the seawater is dumped overboard or can be used to heat fresh water in
the water tank. Because steam gives up its heat in condensation, there's
LOTS of heat coming out of it.....nearly, we hope, 100% of the heat you
put in if there's no leakage...which is impossible. There's plenty of
hot seawater to heat the hot water tank on the way overboard.

A genset exhaust is also an excellent source for a seawater distiller
heat source....

Larry

Larry,

Explain that again in one syllable words for me :-)

As I understand what you are saying you mean to remove the present
water cooled exhaust manifold from the cooling system and replace it
with a heat exchanger device to heat what? Water to make steam or oil
to heat water to make steam? Or did I miss something there?

The reason I ask is because many years ago I maintained a distillation
plant that used exhaust heat to make steam. If I remember correctly
the primary power was a Perkins 4-108 diesel and it didn't make enough
exhaust heat to boil water at sea level atmospheric pressure. The
distillation vessel was heated as hot as possible using the exhaust
and then an engine driven vacuum pump dropped the pressure in the
still to create steam at temperatures lower then 212F.

Whether this was done to increase thruput or because exhaust heat
alone was not sufficient I do not recollect.

In any event, given the cost of reverse osmosis systems using engine
heat would seem rather attractive.







Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:20:16 +0700, wrote:


Explain that again in one syllable words for me :-)

As I understand what you are saying you mean to remove the present
water cooled exhaust manifold from the cooling system and replace it
with a heat exchanger device to heat what? Water to make steam or oil
to heat water to make steam? Or did I miss something there?

What Larry's talking about is using a liquid medium near the exhaust
that will transport the heat to the distiller, similar to what nuke
plants do, but I think they still use water for the transfer.
He mentioned trans fluid, and I'm not sure of its specific heat, but
there are "better" or more appropriate heat transfer mechanisms than
water, as seen in freon A/C.
In any case, though I'm far from an expert in this, I did operate
steam plants in the Navy and acquired but never used a Stationary
license, so I speaking with *some* experience.
As I said before, complexity and size are the impediments to what
Larry is after. Science finds nothing magical in capturing and moving
heat.
But every time I've seen it done it involved sound materials selection
and engineering, bulky heat transfer vessels, and huge amounts of
insulation.

The reason I ask is because many years ago I maintained a distillation
plant that used exhaust heat to make steam. If I remember correctly
the primary power was a Perkins 4-108 diesel and it didn't make enough
exhaust heat to boil water at sea level atmospheric pressure. The
distillation vessel was heated as hot as possible using the exhaust
and then an engine driven vacuum pump dropped the pressure in the
still to create steam at temperatures lower then 212F.

Whether this was done to increase thruput or because exhaust heat
alone was not sufficient I do not recollect.

Probably both. Since the purpose was to make water, they used a
combination that made the most water. Engine exhaust is certainly
hot enough to boil water. If the same engine was driving the vacuum
pump, that's good, because a diesel's designed purpose is to create
mechanical power. No doubt you know all this, so I hope my talking
hasn't put you to sleep.

In any event, given the cost of reverse osmosis systems using engine
heat would seem rather attractive.

It would be good to see development and competition bring the initial
cost of RO units down. I'm still interested in Larry's thoughts about
the "bacteria" issues he has seen in RO units. His thoughts on the
cruise boat ailments being related to the watermakers are very
interesting.
In the meantime, his stovetop distillers are working well for him, and
use heat in a time-tested and pretty efficient way, with almost direct
application of flame to water.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote in
:

I'm still interested in Larry's thoughts about
the "bacteria" issues he has seen in RO units. His thoughts on the
cruise boat ailments being related to the watermakers are very
interesting.

Here's some interesting membrane information from one of the RO makers.
http://www.hydrovane-watermakers.com/products.html

Notice how much time they spend talking about "pickling" and "flushing"
and warning not to flush the membrane with chlorinated water, which
destroys it. They also make some vague references to bacterial
contamination but don't delve into scary subjects that trash sales, of
course.

I gave up looking for the old article I was looking for to show you after
the third time IE's latest version was hijacked by some self-installing
spyware bull**** the net is eaten alive with. I hate looking at webpages
any more. Someone should HANG FROM THE YARDARM. Sorry....(c;

Universities are worth searching like:
http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/Biotech-
Environ/MISC/biotreat/reverseo.html

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/h2oqual/watsys/ae1047w.htm

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/factsheets/mk_nl2.asc

These RO guys look interesting:
http://store.bigbrandwater.com/poorsaplcr.html
they should know the answers....



In the meantime, his stovetop distillers are working well for him, and
use heat in a time-tested and pretty efficient way, with almost direct
application of flame to water.

--Vic


I don't own a stovetop distiller. Mine are all electric, 1 commercial
and 2 countertop home units. The last one is a countertop Sears sells
from Waterwise in Florida. I paid $9 for it at a thrift shop, hardly
ever used it looks like.

http://www.waterwise.com/products/products.asp
One of my units is the 8800, but the Sears-branded model. The newest one
looks like the 8800, but is a Sear-only unit that's much cheaper without
the computer/clock controls. It resets by simply resetting the kettle
trip overtemp thermostat with a push button under the handle. Sears
sells them for about $100. Makes not quite a gallon. The 8800 makes
over a gallon in 4 hours. Both units work excellently with no steam
leakage and great convenience.

I buy Deer Park brand 3 litre polycarbonate bottled water from the
grocery store. I'm not interested in the city water they bottle, just
the bottle itself. These make excellent storage bottles for my output.
They have two dimples molded into the strong plastic for non-protruding
handles and a LARGE CAP to make it easier to fill. I just dump the
product down the drain when I finally wear out one of my 6 bottles in
storage. I used to distill into 5 gallon commercial water bottles. I
have 3 real glass ones I can sanitize in the oven, not polycarb plastic.
I also have an Oasis bottled water cooler to put them in, making really
great, REALLY COLD water always available. I paid $25 for the big
cooler, another thrift shop bargain....(c; It plugs in, of course.

Larry
--
Why drink the government's chemical soup when you can drink pure?

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 20:48:39 +0000, Larry wrote:

Vic Smith wrote in
:

I'm still interested in Larry's thoughts about
the "bacteria" issues he has seen in RO units. His thoughts on the
cruise boat ailments being related to the watermakers are very
interesting.

I gave up looking for the old article I was looking for to show you after
the third time IE's latest version was hijacked by some self-installing
spyware bull**** the net is eaten alive with. I hate looking at webpages
any more. Someone should HANG FROM THE YARDARM. Sorry....(c;

The free AVG and Zone Alarm have virtually stopped that for me.
I use my C: partition for the OS and program files only, Ghosting it
often.
If I suspect an infection I just restore the image.
Before, when I was manually removing infections, I got a very strong
suspicion that many of the virii are being propagated not by simple
vandals, but by those with financial connections to the various
ant-virus money-making corporations and businesses.
Hanging from the yardarm isn't good enough.
Thanks for the links. I'll look into them.

In the meantime, his stovetop distillers are working well for him, and
use heat in a time-tested and pretty efficient way, with almost direct
application of flame to water.

I don't own a stovetop distiller. Mine are all electric, 1 commercial
and 2 countertop home units. The last one is a countertop Sears sells
from Waterwise in Florida. I paid $9 for it at a thrift shop, hardly
ever used it looks like.

Yeah, I knew that, but forgot. Probably thinking about how I would do
it given natural gas is cheaper than electricity here. But even with
that, your electric units might be more practical here too.

--Vic

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 10:10:37 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

In the meantime, his stovetop distillers are working well for him, and
use heat in a time-tested and pretty efficient way, with almost direct
application of flame to water.

Yes, but can you also use it to make booze? If so you could turn your
boat into a cash machine.

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 20:57:01 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 10:10:37 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

In the meantime, his stovetop distillers are working well for him, and
use heat in a time-tested and pretty efficient way, with almost direct
application of flame to water.

Yes, but can you also use it to make booze? If so you could turn your
boat into a cash machine.

You'd have to fiddle with the thermostat as booze is distilled at
considerable lower temperatures then distilled water. I've got a mate
who makes his own booze and I *think* the top of the reflux still runs
about 80 degrees C. I can get you specific numbers if you are that
interested.

Be aware that the Tax people get absolutely frantic and tend to take
away your house, car, still, and money when they catch you doing this.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)