On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:22:56 +0000, Larry wrote:


Of course, if you sell "ionizers" threatened by the distiller
manufacturers:
http://www.ionizers.org/distilled_water.html
http://www.ionizers.org/purifiedwater.html
"Dr Theodore Baroody, in his book "Alkalize or Die", offers a list of
symptoms that may be precipitated by Acidosis"
Why do doctors prostrate themselves for a few easy bucks?
http://www.mercola.com/article/water...lled_water.htm

Here's a little truth:
http://www.durastill.com/myths.html
http://www.energiseforlife.com/disti...-questions.php
I've been drinking distilled water for 15 years since my last kidney
stone drove me to my knees with pain. Kidney stones are caused by the
calcium buildup from elemental calcium in drinking water. No calcium, no
kidney stones. Pretty simple, actually. I used to get them regularly.
No more!

If you saw what was left in my distiller after making a batch of
distilled from Charleston City Water, you wouldn't even bathe in it! It
looks like sewage, all brown and gook. My last hot water heater lasted 4
years before the acid from the lake water the city provides ate away the
inside of it because I found out it didn't have a sacrificial magnesium
anode. We cut open what was left to see why it wouldn't drain. IT WAS
FULL OF MUD!! REAL MUD!! They want me to drink that?? NOT.

On topic, I would NEVER drink water from a boat tank filled with crap
from various ports. Any hose laying on a dock at any marine in
Charleston GROWS GREEN ALGAE in about 4 hours. The water turns green
with it, ask Skip, who just left here. Those tanks can't be cleaned,
just killed. No thanks. I bring a 5 gallon tank with a pump for
whatever crew I'm with to drink PURE, distilled water from my still.

Good advice. I'll be looking hard at water sourcing and storage when
I get my boat.
I've been lucky here in Chicago, because the Lake Michigan water meets
my liking. Not much scale buildup either. Sometimes it smells of
chlorine though, but if left to sit a couple minutes that's gone.
Some people are prone to kidney stones, I think, water aside.
In the Ozarks we had bucket drawn well water, and I admit to missing
the taste, which might be described as "Strongly imbued with a rocky
flavor, but eloquently tempered by subtle undertones of frog, lizard,
snake and cricket."
Distilled water is fine and healthy, and even that deaerated water
would have been suitable if I'd been able to shake some oxygen into
it.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote in
:

In the Ozarks we had bucket drawn well water, and I admit to missing
the taste, which might be described as "Strongly imbued with a rocky
flavor, but eloquently tempered by subtle undertones of frog, lizard,
snake and cricket."

Before the Feds forced our little town of 1500 people to build and
connect to a fancy sewage plant that has completely polluted Owasco Lake,
the ring finger of The Finger Lakes SW of Syracuse, NY, long after I left
there for the Navy, we drank lake water all the while fishing in it.
Noone ever got sick even though all the camps and homes around the lake
used septic tanks...or more correctly outhouses and cesspools of concrete
block to keep them from caving in.

Now, the lake is destroyed by the sewage plants of the three towns
upstream from its inlet. Huge algae blooms kill all the fish and make
the place uninhabitable. When I was a kid in the 50's, the men stood on
shore at night next to their gas lanterns snatching one huge bullhead
after another until midnight when the bullheads "ran" in season. They're
all dead now, killed by the government greenies.

Distilled water is fine and healthy, and even that deaerated water
would have been suitable if I'd been able to shake some oxygen into
it.

What's wrong with distillers is they distill other things in the water,
besides the water, notably benzene and other light fuels. It gives
distilled water a metallic taste it usually is associated with. However,
there is a very simple solution to this problem that makes the water
taste devine in its pure, unconducting state....activated carbon.
Passing the output of the still through a 6" column of activated carbon
totally removes any trace of these carbon-based enes because they attach
themselves, at the molecular level to the carbon ions, very readily.
There are expensive carbon filter pads available for my distiller but
that's a crazy waste. I use a very high temperature nylon baster from a
gourmet cooking store. I put a coffee filter in the tube as a little
funnel and push it to the pointed end. Then, fill the tube with carbon
granules the filter keeps out of my water. Slowly siphon the water
through the column into my storage bottles and the whole column gets
quite hot with the reaction, even with only a few ppm of enes. The water
coming out the bottom is delicious. You can do this same thing with
store-bought distilled that is not filtered this way. One notable
exception is the best-selling bottled water in the business, Dasani from
Coca-Cola. Dasani is exactly what I make, distilled water filtered
through activated carbon. Try a bottle at any food store. My water
tastes exactly like it, but at a fraction of the cost, of course, about
20c/gallon.

I'm amazed none of the osmosis users haven't chimed in. Maybe they are
not reading this thread. Reverse osmosis was supposed to be the cureall
for our water ills. Unfortunately, it has seen some really nasty
problems since its inception they are not solving adequately. It's not
distilled, no where near as pure. The worst problem is bacteria.
Bacteria cannot pass through the membrane as they are too large. But,
alas, unfortunately, bacteria die because of the osmosis pressures used
to speed up filtration. Dead bacteria against the membrane now become
lodged against it and the pressure soon breaks them down. This releases
the TOXINS that make the bacteria so dangerous to humans, which DO pass
right through the membranes into the output filtered water. Noone in the
passenger shipping business will say, but I think THIS is the problem
with so many passengers of a cruise ship becoming sick all together, over
and over, for no apparent reason they will let us know about....toxic
water.

http://tinyurl.com/2xasfv
http://tinyurl.com/2ynewe
http://tinyurl.com/24nrq4

Distilled water has none of these problems. What I can't figure out,
especially on power yachts, is why all that waste engine heat going up
the stacks isn't running engine-room-mounted distillers for fresh water
to drink. One big V-8 diesel pushing a monster could make 200 gallons of
seawater into two hundred gallons of distilled in no time at all!....with
no bacteria in it!



Larry
--

"Larry" wrote

Distilled water has none of these problems. What I can't figure out,
especially on power yachts, is why all that waste engine heat going up
the stacks isn't running engine-room-mounted distillers for fresh water
to drink.

You are spot on with this comment. When I was working at Woods Hole, in the
days before reverse osmosis, they had an engineer who knew how to tweak the
waste heat vacuum distillation units to the point that they got a gallon of
fresh water for every gallon of fuel burned; that's after the fuel had
pushed the ship or made electricity.

Take a look at the power draw for a reverse osmosis unit and then figure out
how much "fresh water" you have to carry in the form of fuel.

--
Roger Long

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:06:46 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:


"Larry" wrote

Distilled water has none of these problems. What I can't figure out,
especially on power yachts, is why all that waste engine heat going up
the stacks isn't running engine-room-mounted distillers for fresh water
to drink.

You are spot on with this comment. When I was working at Woods Hole, in the
days before reverse osmosis, they had an engineer who knew how to tweak the
waste heat vacuum distillation units to the point that they got a gallon of
fresh water for every gallon of fuel burned; that's after the fuel had
pushed the ship or made electricity.

Take a look at the power draw for a reverse osmosis unit and then figure out
how much "fresh water" you have to carry in the form of fuel.

It a size/expense issue as much as anything else. Navy boilers
commonly used "economizers" to preheat boiler feed water, but
they were fairly massive units sitting in the stacks.
Evaporators aren't exactly mini me's either.
I think a look at the heat exchangers used to provide heated water
might give some idea on what's involved.
Heck, you already don't have space to use your engine crank.
It sure would be fun to tinker with. For a sailboat I'd probably look
at rain collectors, solar stills, and bottled water first.
I've sometimes wondered why IC engine designers haven't yet come
up with an engine that can't better utilize the BTU's in the fuel
instead of throwing it away via heat. Think of those millions of
engines out there wasting all of that energy from radiators, hoses,
heads and blocks.

--Vic

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:40:38 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:06:46 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:


"Larry" wrote

Distilled water has none of these problems. What I can't figure out,
especially on power yachts, is why all that waste engine heat going up
the stacks isn't running engine-room-mounted distillers for fresh water
to drink.

You are spot on with this comment. When I was working at Woods Hole, in the
days before reverse osmosis, they had an engineer who knew how to tweak the
waste heat vacuum distillation units to the point that they got a gallon of
fresh water for every gallon of fuel burned; that's after the fuel had
pushed the ship or made electricity.

Take a look at the power draw for a reverse osmosis unit and then figure out
how much "fresh water" you have to carry in the form of fuel.

It a size/expense issue as much as anything else. Navy boilers
commonly used "economizers" to preheat boiler feed water, but
they were fairly massive units sitting in the stacks.
Evaporators aren't exactly mini me's either.
I think a look at the heat exchangers used to provide heated water
might give some idea on what's involved.
Heck, you already don't have space to use your engine crank.
It sure would be fun to tinker with. For a sailboat I'd probably look
at rain collectors, solar stills, and bottled water first.
I've sometimes wondered why IC engine designers haven't yet come
up with an engine that can't better utilize the BTU's in the fuel
instead of throwing it away via heat. Think of those millions of
engines out there wasting all of that energy from radiators, hoses,
heads and blocks.

The only distillation unit I've seen was one that used the engine to
heat the water also used the engine to drive a vacuum pump to lower
the pressure in the distillation chamber. and I suspect that is how
you would have to do it on a smallish boat. I wasn't primarily
responsible for maintenance on the damned thing but got lumbered with
working on it as I seemed to be the only one at the site that would
admit to understanding its theory of operation. Either I was the only
smart one or the only dumb one (for admitting I understood the beast).
When I left the project water was still a problem at that site.





Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

That is consistent with what I observed. The units were about the size of a
25 KW generator and required a lot of understanding and tweaking to function
properly. The reason it came to my notice was everyone's amazement that the
engineer was able to get more water out than even the manufacturer
(DeLaval?) thought possible.

This wouldn't be a current option unless someone were to produce a scaled
down unit for trawler yacht size boats. Even larger craft have gone largely
to reverse osmosis because they are less troublesome to run and manage.

--
Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in news:46cc4cf3$0$18928
:

Even larger craft have gone largely
to reverse osmosis because they are less troublesome to run and manage.



You can tell the Love Boat industry has gone to RO because of the number of
people who have been poisoned drinking it.



Larry
--

Vic Smith brought forth on stone tablets:
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:06:46 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:


"Larry" wrote


Distilled water has none of these problems. What I can't figure out,
especially on power yachts, is why all that waste engine heat going up
the stacks isn't running engine-room-mounted distillers for fresh water
to drink.

You are spot on with this comment. When I was working at Woods Hole, in the
days before reverse osmosis, they had an engineer who knew how to tweak the
waste heat vacuum distillation units to the point that they got a gallon of
fresh water for every gallon of fuel burned; that's after the fuel had
pushed the ship or made electricity.

Take a look at the power draw for a reverse osmosis unit and then figure out
how much "fresh water" you have to carry in the form of fuel.


It a size/expense issue as much as anything else. Navy boilers
commonly used "economizers" to preheat boiler feed water, but
they were fairly massive units sitting in the stacks.
Evaporators aren't exactly mini me's either.
I think a look at the heat exchangers used to provide heated water
might give some idea on what's involved.
Heck, you already don't have space to use your engine crank.
It sure would be fun to tinker with. For a sailboat I'd probably look
at rain collectors, solar stills, and bottled water first.
I've sometimes wondered why IC engine designers haven't yet come
up with an engine that can't better utilize the BTU's in the fuel
instead of throwing it away via heat. Think of those millions of
engines out there wasting all of that energy from radiators, hoses,
heads and blocks.

Take a look at the Crower 6-cycle engine -

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

RW Salnick wrote in news:fai0c9$f20$1
@gnus01.u.washington.edu:

Crower 6-cycle engine

A GREAT idea!

What would we do with all those fans in the engine rooms??...(c;

Larry
--

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:47:35 -0700, RW Salnick
wrote:



Take a look at the Crower 6-cycle engine -

Although I didn't look closely, it almost reminds me of a variation of
"water injectors." A non-closed steam circuit doesn't make sense to
me, and once the steam circuit is closed, we're back to the latter
Stanley Steamers, although they could be much improved with turbines.
Anyway, the IC and steam don't seem to mix become of the volume steam
requires.
Since you kept me interested, I found "bmw steam assist"
which is more along the lines I was thinking in recovering waste heat.
The trick is designing a practical heat recovery device that is
adequately efficient in heat transfer, energy conversion, and power
train while still being small in size. And the cost, of course.
I don't think it would actually use water, but something more exotic.
Again I didn't read deeply, but they seem on the right track.
Except - to get the most out this I think it needs to be hybridized to
the extent that when excess heat isn't being used to apply motive
power, that energy should be shunted to a battery for storage.
So it would be a step beyond current gas/battery hybrids, but still
need that honking battery. Another alternative way of storing energy
I recall reading about is the massive flywheel - I think vacuum sealed
- which stores braking energy and feed it back when needed.
Sounded nice until you think of the weight and vacuum required,
or the high-speed flywheel shattering and spraying shrapnel.
Another thought is that the great increase in IC fuel efficiency
has been achieved mostly by better burning of fuel with injectors,
electronic ignition, etc. There might be more bounty in squeezing
the most out of the fuel and working on getting the explosion
itself to transfer more of its direct energy into work.
Though it's heat transfer instead of work, modern home NG furnaces
are up to about 90% efficiency and use PVC exhaust vents.
Wankel was the last radical IC redesign I'm aware of, but there
may be a genius out there that comes up with another that completely
changes our thinking about this.
It won't be me - writing this has wrung me out.

--Vic