Some comments on a few of the points made:

1. Range - Use the GREATEST range that shows a solid picture for your
area. If you stay on the 0.25 and 0.5 mile scales for normal operation,
you are highly limiting the overall value of the radar. Think of it like
driving your car down the freeway, always looking as far ahead as
possible and then looking in close as you encounter traffic, etc.
Admittedly, the vessel targets will appear smaller, but you can always
scan down as they approach.

2. True motion - Very few ships use or even have this choice, nowadays
(most hated the screen resetting as you approached the edge). What is
normally used ( and available to some small boaters) is "North UP" or
gyro stabilized, which is frequently referred to, incorrectly, as true
motion. This means you stay in the center of the screen, but your
heading flasher moves, so direct bearings can easily be taken. I'd call
it the best of both worlds.

3. ARPA - if you can get this and use it, do so. Even on ships, the norm
is to leave the auto designate off (this is changing) and manually
acquire targets. Once you learn how to use it, it can really simplify
your collision avoidance options.

otn

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
.."obvious" place would be the nav station, but...

Your conclusion that the nav station i less than optimal is correct. A
friend of mine has it mounted there on his Valiant and having played
"radar officer" shouting instructions up to him at the helm at we
motyored under the Golden Gate dodging freighters in heavy fog ("Come
left another 15 degrees, it looks like the current is setting us toward
the point!"), you really don't want to go there.

I currently use a swing-out arm for my sounder, and it works well, but
blocks the companionway - something I'd rather not do for long periods.
We've actually got two swing out arms. One for the GPS/fish finder and
one for the radar. The truth of the matter is that we actually use the
radar infrequently enough that this is really not a problem for us.

But in either case, I'd be removing the display when the boat is
docked. How easy is this, especially the connectors?

Easy to do, but I'd be concerned about two things: #1 The connectors
eventually wearing out or bending a pin and #2 accidentaly damaging the
unit by dropping it or banging ito something as I'm carrying it and the
boat lurches or something.

Take care - Dan
--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

I remove the display from my boat when it's in the parking lot (trailered
boat).
There are three connectors (power, antenna, GPS) all are encased in heavy
rubber. I periodically coat them with dielectric grease, I hang them so that
water doesn't get sprayed directly on them when washing the boat.


"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:40:10 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:


Wow - thanks for all the Great Answers! Lots of things I hadn't
considered, like losing close-in target if the antenna is too high.

As for display mounting, the reason I asked about watches is that the
"obvious" place would be the nav station, but I can't see where I'm going
from there, so it would only be useful if I was using the radar as a
closed-cct TV. Sounds like that's not an option, so scratch the nav
station as a possible mounting place.

I currently use a swing-out arm for my sounder, and it works well, but
blocks the companionway - something I'd rather not do for long periods.
I'll consider it, but I think I'll go with another option.

That leaves on the "deck" under the dodger (where I put my
"convertable" speakers), or on the binnacle. Binnacle would be good for
when I'm at the wheel (with a swivel so I can see it when I'm beside the
wheel), but I just don't like clutter on my binnacle: I like to see my
compass, and I sometimes lean against it and steer with the wheel behind
me. OTOH, the dodger option would be kinda far away when I'm at the wheel,
but good when I'm ducking under the dodger ("DUCK DODGER - In The 24 1/2
Century!" - thank you, Chuck Jones!)

But in either case, I'd be removing the display when the boat is
docked. How easy is this, especially the connectors? How well would the
connectors handle being out in the weather - is there some kind of
protective cover for them? The dodger option might allow me to snake the
cables up from below, but they might get in the way ("Sailor Strangled By
Radar Cable: Film at 11..").

One thing I noticed about the Furuno 1721: it had a "secondary display"
option - is this as good as it sounds? Also, one feature the 1721 had is
that on "standby" it displays the nav data it gets via NMEA from the GPS -
that also sounds like a Good Feature, and make the binnacle mount a good
option (since the GPS would be right below it if it was under the dodger).

Again, thanks for all the help!
Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

x-no-archive:yes


"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:40:10 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:


Wow - thanks for all the Great Answers! Lots of things I hadn't
considered, like losing close-in target if the antenna is too high.
snip
But in either case, I'd be removing the display when the boat is
docked. How easy is this, especially the connectors? How well would the
connectors handle being out in the weather - is there some kind of
protective cover for them? The dodger option might allow me to snake the

We remove and store the radar when we are in a marina (we don't bother
at anchor) or when we leave the boat on a mooring. Bob has the
connectors shrink wrap protected. There are three nuts or knobs to be
tightened or loosened - does not take long at all. One is to attach
the screen to the arm, and the other two attach the radar part to the
antenna and to a power source. I think that Bob has the cable running
down inside the legs of the radar arch. The cables that I see are
quite short - less than 8"


cables up from below, but they might get in the way ("Sailor Strangled By
Radar Cable: Film at 11..").
snip
grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:

1. On a sailboat, where do you put the display? I rarely steer from
behind the
wheel, mainly by sitting on one of the gunwales beside the wheel, or
sometimes
by Otto while hiding from the rain under the dodger (hence the
name... ).

At the chart table (have a tiller, not wheel, so no wheel mounted
instrument binnacle). I have been considering mounting the display on a
swivel to be able to turn it to face the companionway directly.

2. Realistically, how far do you set the max range? I'm seeing that
unless I
mount the antenna up the mast, I'm not gonna get more than maybe 10
miles range
no matter what unit I buy. Then again, if I see a freighter steaming
at 30
knots, 10 miles away, I still have 20 minutes to do something. Is a
20-mile
range worth getting?

I find 16 miles more than adequate and rarely use more than 8 miles.
When keeping radar watch, don't forget to cycle regularly through the
ranges. On a small set a weak target (e.g. yacht with no reflector) may
only show at 1 mile or less and not be seen on a set at 16 mile range
but be readily visible on the 1 or 2 mile setting.

3. Do you trust yours enough to use it instead of a "watch" (ie watch
the radar
screen instead of where you're going)? Trying to decide if getting a
radar will
increase my cruising time significantly (ie more confidence in running
at night)

In general No. Particularly in areas of lobster pots a visual watch is
essential. OTOH with radar and solo I will now spend more time at the
chart table than when without radar.

4. I see a "guard zone alarm" but no "constant-bearing alarm". Why
not? wouldn't
a constant-bearing alarm be far more useful (and not that hard to
implement)?

For a constant bearing alarm to work you would probably need to
initially mark a potential target with the cursor whichwoulkd then allow
the machine to track it. I also sail on Tall Ships with commercial gyro
stabilised ARPA radars. We can 'mark' up to 30 targets and the readout
gives the target's course, speed, closest point of approach and time to
CPA. However you are now talking real money! On my little radar I have
not found the guard zone to be useful as it is too often triggered by
spurious clutter.

5. I'm looking at the Furuno 1623 or 1712, or the JRC 1000. I have a
Furuno
GP-31 GPS and I'm impressed by the quality (also, probably 90% of
commercial
boats around here have Furuno radars). Any comments?

Happy with my small Furuno. The ability to link with GPS is key. One
can put in a GPS waypoint and this then shows as a 'lolipop' on the
radar, so easy to identify a buoy set as a waypoint and differentiate
from any other trgets nearby (e.g. yachts jilling around the buoy in
thick fog)

6. Is it worth while to mount the antenna up the mast, or should I use
a
"dedicated" mast at the transom?

I use a mast mount - cheaper than a pole and a view from higher up. I
have not noticed any adverse heeling effect from the extra weight aloft.

That's all for now...dreaming on a dull winter's day...

I bought radar about 4 / 5 years ago after aborting a channel crossing
to France in poor visibility sailing 2 up. Since then it has been
frequently helpful (e.g. I am not good at estimating distances off of
large vessels in shipping lanes, radar shows this exactly) and
invaluable on a few occasions - this year we lost vis off the NW coast
of France and it was 0.1 - 1 mile all the way to within the Solent,
about 180 miles. Without radar that passage would have been alarming at
least!

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Tony Boas
Sadler 34 - Bold Warrior

x-no-archive:yes


"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote:

Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:

1. On a sailboat, where do you put the display? I rarely steer from behind the
wheel, mainly by sitting on one of the gunwales beside the wheel, or sometimes
by Otto while hiding from the rain under the dodger (hence the name... ).

We have it mounted on an arm the binnacle opposite the autopilot
controls so that it can be swung around a bit to be visible from the
side of the cockpit. So if it is pretty calm and the autopilot is
doing the steering we can sit off on the side and still see it. Our
cockpit is under a bimini and is pretty dry as we have a dodger and
curtains all around.

http://photomail.photoworks.com/shar...jy3jXDgjbDznKP
has a picture at #24 (if the link works)

2. Realistically, how far do you set the max range? I'm seeing that unless I
mount the antenna up the mast, I'm not gonna get more than maybe 10 miles range
no matter what unit I buy. Then again, if I see a freighter steaming at 30
knots, 10 miles away, I still have 20 minutes to do something. Is a 20-mile
range worth getting?

In the ICW and rivers etc, we have it on whatever range gives us the
most coverage - in a canal it may be on 1/4 mile, and on a river maybe
1.5 miles depending on how wide a river it is. Mostly near the coast
when offshore we have it at 3 miles depending on how far offshore we
are and what the visibility conditions are. We rarely use the higher
ranges because then we don't see stuff close to us.

3. Do you trust yours enough to use it instead of a "watch" (ie watch the radar
screen instead of where you're going)? Trying to decide if getting a radar will
increase my cruising time significantly (ie more confidence in running at night)

We do not run at night unless we are offshore - never in the ICW. We
do not single hand, and almost all the time two of us are in the
cockpit looking around. Usually Bob has the wheel and I'm looking out
for boats overtaking or crab pots or I've got the binoculars or I'm
taking a photo.

Actually, we normally check stuff with our eyes and then see if it
shows up on the radar.

On occasions where we are standing watches and when I'm standing the
watch and Bob is below, I bounce around in the cockpit like a ping
pong ball - partly to keep awake. I do look at the radar, but I am
OFTEN seeing things before the radar does - actually on one recent
clear passage I kept mistaking stars for ship running lights - of
course they don't show up on the radar at all.

4. I see a "guard zone alarm" but no "constant-bearing alarm". Why not? wouldn't
a constant-bearing alarm be far more useful (and not that hard to implement)?

5. I'm looking at the Furuno 1623 or 1712, or the JRC 1000. I have a Furuno
GP-31 GPS and I'm impressed by the quality (also, probably 90% of commercial
boats around here have Furuno radars). Any comments?

We have a Si-Tex but I don't think it is made anymore.

6. Is it worth while to mount the antenna up the mast, or should I use a
"dedicated" mast at the transom?

We have ours on an arch. Even there, we sometimes have blind spots
when heeled a bit.

grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

Will answer those questions I can .... answers interspersed.

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:

1. On a sailboat, where do you put the display? I rarely steer from behind the
wheel, mainly by sitting on one of the gunwales beside the wheel, or sometimes
by Otto while hiding from the rain under the dodger (hence the name... ).

Put it where it best suits your conditions when running in fog or at
night. Normally this will end up being a trade-off and may mean you
can't have it where you'd really like it.

2. Realistically, how far do you set the max range? I'm seeing that unless I
mount the antenna up the mast, I'm not gonna get more than maybe 10 miles range
no matter what unit I buy. Then again, if I see a freighter steaming at 30
knots, 10 miles away, I still have 20 minutes to do something. Is a 20-mile
range worth getting?

Your actual radar range will vary at any given time, for a number of
reasons. In open water conditions, use the range which gives you the
maximum range for your individual setup. In closer conditions, stay at
the highest range which give you a good all round view and switch to
lower ranges to get a better look. Be aware that staying on longer
ranges may mean that you may miss close in targets, so always scan.

3. Do you trust yours enough to use it instead of a "watch" (ie watch the radar
screen instead of where you're going)? Trying to decide if getting a radar will
increase my cruising time significantly (ie more confidence in running at night)

Radar is never to be used instead of your "Mark I eyeball", but in cases
of fog, it can be a better alternative, as long as you also maintain the
use of the "MarkI", and it can greatly reduce some of the concerns
regarding running at night.

4. I see a "guard zone alarm" but no "constant-bearing alarm". Why not? wouldn't
a constant-bearing alarm be far more useful (and not that hard to implement)?

Would be easy, for those sets, "gyro stabilized" but I'm not sure that
the benefits of the normal relative motion sets would increase over the
distance "guard zones". To be honest, to begin with, you are more
concerned with all vessels approaching within a certain distance than
you are with individual vessels on a collision course. The idea is to
alert you to ALL traffic within the guard zone.

5. I'm looking at the Furuno 1623 or 1712, or the JRC 1000. I have a Furuno
GP-31 GPS and I'm impressed by the quality (also, probably 90% of commercial
boats around here have Furuno radars). Any comments?

6. Is it worth while to mount the antenna up the mast, or should I use a
"dedicated" mast at the transom?

That's all for now...dreaming on a dull winter's day...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36


otn

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:

1. On a sailboat, where do you put the display? I rarely steer from behind
the
wheel, mainly by sitting on one of the gunwales beside the wheel, or
sometimes
by Otto while hiding from the rain under the dodger (hence the
name... ).

Ours is in the pilothouse such that it can be seen from inside
or from the outside. I've seen many that are mounted on a
swing arm such that it can be swung into the companionway.

2. Realistically, how far do you set the max range? I'm seeing that unless
I
mount the antenna up the mast, I'm not gonna get more than maybe 10 miles
range
no matter what unit I buy. Then again, if I see a freighter steaming at 30
knots, 10 miles away, I still have 20 minutes to do something. Is a
20-mile
range worth getting?

The long range is nice for tracking storms. I usually keep ours
set at 3 or 4 miles while cruising.

3. Do you trust yours enough to use it instead of a "watch" (ie watch the
radar
screen instead of where you're going)? Trying to decide if getting a radar
will
increase my cruising time significantly (ie more confidence in running at
night)

It's no substitute for a proper watch, just an adjunct. I do feel
alot more secure at night with it there.

4. I see a "guard zone alarm" but no "constant-bearing alarm". Why not?
wouldn't
a constant-bearing alarm be far more useful (and not that hard to
implement)?

Mine not fancy enough for either. I can see that a constant
bearing alarm would be nice though.

5. I'm looking at the Furuno 1623 or 1712, or the JRC 1000. I have a
Furuno
GP-31 GPS and I'm impressed by the quality (also, probably 90% of
commercial
boats around here have Furuno radars). Any comments?

Ours is a Furuno and works very well. It came with the boat and
so kind of old.

6. Is it worth while to mount the antenna up the mast, or should I use a
"dedicated" mast at the transom?

Ours is mounted on an arch. Works very well.

That's all for now...dreaming on a dull winter's day...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Lloyd Sumpter wrote in message
...
Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:

1. Not qualified. Power boater.

2. Try some more numbers. At 6 knots you travel a half-mile in 5 min. That
Alaska bound cruise ship travels 2 miles in 5 min. You know which direction
the cruise boat or freighter are going in B.C. and Alaska Coastal waters.
You have lots of time to make a right angle turn and get out of the way with
12 mile max. There are other features more important. You will be shifting
ranges regularly.

3. I trust mine implicitly, as long as it's used in conjunction with 4
eyeballs, Nobeltec on 2 laptops, paper chart, compass, depth sounder, and
.... a radar reflector that allows them to see you.

5. Raytheon SL72 - lower helm only. Simple.

That's all for now...dreaming on a dull winter's day...

Get the radar. If you actually use your boat, you will find many more
applications than driving at night or in the fog, although those two are
pretty important. It's pretty easy to stay in the middle of the channel in
the daylight, if that's where you need to be, when your radar is painting
the channel walls for you, and anchoring in a summer crowd is made easier,
if not a piece of cake, when radar is showing you were all the holes are,
and the distances between the other boats. In Cosmos Cove, AK I even found
a place to anchor among the commercial crab pots in the inner cove using my
radar.

Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36

Relax and Enjoy

Hi Lloyd,,

1. On a sailboat, where do you put the display?

On a swing out arm in the companion way. That way, it's visible
anywhere in the cockpit and out of the way when not using it. You could
also see it form inside, but we never really use it from inside.

2. Realistically, how far do you set the max range?

Depends on conditions and what your doing. During night/inclement
weather horizon checks, we scan both close in and far out.

3. Do you trust yours enough to use it instead of a "watch"

No. In heavy fog/rain, we rely on it, but we use it in addition to eyes
and ears.

4. "constant-bearing alarm". Why not?

Dunno, But we just set a bearing line on a target and if it stays on the
line, alter course.

5. I'm looking at the Furuno 1623 or 1712,

We put the Raymarine SL-72 on both our last two boats and love it. I
really don't like the display on the JRC.

6. Is it worth while to mount the antenna up the mast

We had it on a self leveling unit on the mast on our last boat. But
decided to put it on a manual leveling unit on a tower on this one.

FWIW, I used to think of radar as a toy I'd like to have but couldn't
really justify the cost (sorta like a mast mounted wind indicator) .
Then, after we ran into heavy fog while approaching an unfamiliar harbor
one evening, my wife got me a set for my birthday. After using it for a
few years, when we bought our current boat, it was one of the very first
additions we did. I now think of it as almost a must have for the kind
sailing that we do. (I'm still hoping for the wind indicator for my
birthday some day)

Hope this helps - Dan

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG