On Aug 16, 6:13 pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
I went back down to the boat for something I forgot and decided I wanted to
play around a little more.

I've been telling myself since I got the boat that I should try hand
starting the diesel. Better to climb the learning curve at the dock than
while drifting down towards a steep lee shore after some electrical system
disaster. I also have the hand start ability factored into my battery
management strategy. Thanks to this newsgroup, I know that hand starting a
20 hp, twin cylinder, diesel is near the edge of feasibility but doable.

I pulled the big forged or cast iron starting handle out of its handy
brackets next to the engine and put it in place. HUH!? The fiberglass
structure of the engine compartment enclosure makes it impossible to turn
the handle more than a quarter turn. Since hand starting requires getting
it spinning rapidly with the cylinders decompressed and then using the
inertia of the flywheel and engine to (hopefully) kick it into life as you
continue to assist with the crank, there is no way this could begin to work.

I can categorically say that no one has ever hand started one of these boats
unless they were originally delivered with a special handle that the PO
perhaps replaced with the stock item (judging by the paint) not realizing
that it couldn't possibly start the engine. This design defect has
persisted through multiple models of a 1980 boat without ever coming to the
notice of the builders or being noted on the owner's group web site. This
is the most common engine installed in the class.

It's a perfect lesson of the test-everything-and-assume-nothing principle.

I now have a conundrum. I can spend more money to have the handle cut apart
and an extension welded in. The leverage of the cranking force working over
the longer length makes proper functioning questionable unless some
structure with a bearing is provided. I just spent a couple hundred dollars
on insurance in the form of chain so I'm not sure a starting handle for an
engine that can just barely be hand started is the wisest next expenditure.
I may just remove all of the hand start apparatus, which is pretty extensive
and in the way on this particular model, and join the ranks of larger boat
owners who live with the fact that their engines are not going to start
without a functioning battery and electrical system.

--

Roger Long

Thats crazy..Got a picture? Whats the structure in the way?

My 12 hp hand cranking is hard enough, even if you have the room, I
bet a 20 HP will be a real back buster. However an extention to the
cranking handle sounds easy enough...Unless you had to find a super
rare lister hand crank and pay near 300 bucks for it...like the one in
the picture ziptied to a stantion..That would be heart breaking.

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/230...63212926OGssit

Joe

"Joe" wrote

Thats crazy..Got a picture? Whats the structure in the way?

The structure is the fiberglass molding that makes up the entire galley
structure. It's not like some worker put some trim on in the wrong place or
an owner made some modifications.

The reason I would be leery about an extension on the handle is that the
mechanism that prevents the handle turning when the engine starts and
breaking your arm is pretty minimalist. (Looks like the Lister is similar).
A little extra friction in the shaft both would transmit torque and keep the
shaft from sliding forward enough for the lugs to disengage. I'm sure the
force of shattering your forearm would loosen it up enough so that the
handle didn't go spinning around but it would be small comfort at that
point. The combination of extra handle weight and turning force acting over
the longer lever arm would considerably increase the friction on the shaft.

I think I'm going to clean up the whole rig by taking the mechanism off and
going the emergency battery route. You sound like a big guy and, if your 12
hp is that hard to get going, it's another vote that starting this 20 hp
engine cold would be unlikely.

I've got pictures but they are on the office computer and I won't be there
for a few days.

--
Roger Long

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 06:26:57 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I think I'm going to clean up the whole rig by taking the mechanism off and
going the emergency battery route. You sound like a big guy and, if your 12
hp is that hard to get going, it's another vote that starting this 20 hp
engine cold would be unlikely.

I used to have a 2 cylinder Volvo diesel, about 12 or 13 hp, that
could be crank started. It did take a lot of effort though, and I was
a lot younger then. An emergenct battery is a good plan.

On Aug 17, 5:26 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
"Joe" wrote

Thats crazy..Got a picture? Whats the structure in the way?

The structure is the fiberglass molding that makes up the entire galley
structure. It's not like some worker put some trim on in the wrong place or
an owner made some modifications.

The reason I would be leery about an extension on the handle is that the
mechanism that prevents the handle turning when the engine starts and
breaking your arm is pretty minimalist. (Looks like the Lister is similar).
A little extra friction in the shaft both would transmit torque and keep the
shaft from sliding forward enough for the lugs to disengage. I'm sure the
force of shattering your forearm would loosen it up enough so that the
handle didn't go spinning around but it would be small comfort at that
point. The combination of extra handle weight and turning force acting over
the longer lever arm would considerably increase the friction on the shaft.

I think I'm going to clean up the whole rig by taking the mechanism off and
going the emergency battery route. You sound like a big guy and, if your 12
hp is that hard to get going, it's another vote that starting this 20 hp
engine cold would be unlikely.

After thinking about it, it may not be as hard to start your 20 as my
12. Reason is I have to spin a 200 pound armature with the crankshaft.
Usually starts first time, but in a hot engine room your blinded by
sweat in your eyes, and you damn sure want enough speed to compress
and not back kick, as the "lug" stays engaged. Good thing is once it
starts I have full air exchange in the engine room ever 30 seconds as
the engine is air cooled. Problem with an extra battery bank is you
also need to buy and carry a spare starter, or rebuild parts to be
truely redundant.

Joe


I've got pictures but they are on the office computer and I won't be there
for a few days.

--
Roger Long