It's all relative - some wind gens are extremely loud, and some and
just loud - but they're all too ****ing loud for a quiet anchorage -
day or night - or more likely - day AND night. You might think it's
your "right" to add "quiet" noise to an anchorage - but you're wrong.


On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:13:34 GMT, "Geoffrey W. Schultz"
wrote:

I'm in complete agreement with Doug & that's why I got a KISS. I *hate*
Marine Air generators and won't anchor near them. I wanted a wind
generator which would provide good output and would be quiet. The last
thing that I wanted was to be forced out of my cockpit due to the noise
of the generator. Check them out...they're quiet.

-- Geoff

"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:

You will if you use a properly balanced KISS generator.
Very quiet and generates more power than any other
generator I have encountered.

Doug
s/v Callista

"JJ" wrote in message
...
If you want peace and quiet (and low maintenance) - you're not going
to get it with wind generators - and neither will any other boats in
the anchorage.


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:44:24 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

Since part of the reason for going offshore for
the rest of my life is peace and quiet, running engines or
generators
isn't
very appealing, and so I expect to have substantial solar and wind
generation to minimize that. Of course, once under way, there will
be enough instances of running the engine, I expect, that it won't
be of
issue
very often.

So, I'm anticipating doing something using 12V, if for no other
reason
than
greater efficiency than having to turn it into 120V, when I'm not
running some IC power source. I'm currently open on the subject of
(IC[diesel -
I
don't think I'd consider gas]) generators, but nearly certainly
would not buy one if it didn't come with the boat we buy. But, if
we had one,
likely
I'd like a combo ability (12V/120V), perhaps even with a tie-in to
an engine-driven compressor if it's cold plates we use.

Have you done any calculations on the load required to run cold
plates (daily amp hours) vs evaporators for the ability to keep a
given volume
to a
given temperature? One of the boat types we've considered has an
example
of
a refit set of evaporators, so it has me thinking... (They wrapped
it around the previous freezer section, entirely, at the top, and
had a
box/lid
topmounted in the previous reefer space, each having their own knob
temperature adjusters. I don't recall the brand, but there were two
compressors in the engine room, backed up against the reefer/frig
space.)

Thanks.

L8R

Skip (and Lydia)

"JJ" wrote in message
...
It's all relative - some wind gens are extremely loud, and some and
just loud - but they're all too ****ing loud for a quiet anchorage -
day or night - or more likely - day AND night. You might think it's
your "right" to add "quiet" noise to an anchorage - but you're wrong.

I've not done enough checking to say with any certainty on a blanket level,
but I can cite three anecdotal instances where there were wind generators
and I was totally unaware of any noise. Mind you, I'm not saying they
*didn't* make any noise. I am, however, saying I couldn't hear any.

Case 1: We were anchored for a weekend in the Road Harbor bay, not far from
the Tortola Marine Management touted in this group on occasion by those who
have used them. We were immediately adjacent to a boat which had *2* wind
generators. Since there was a pretty good breeze that weekend, they were
going a mile a minute. We didn't hear a thing. It was impressive enough
that I took many pictures of it, just to be sure that that was the kind *we*
got. They weren't KISS, I don't think, as that was 2 years ago, and this
was a very much older boat. Was it the wind level that made them inaudible?
I don't know. If it's blowing hard enough to make the noise they generate
inaudible, they're also generating a lot of juice. If it's not (blowing
that hard - and therefore they're turning slower), they'd probably be
quieter. Either way, I can say for certain that they were not an intrusion
to an anchorage.

Case 2: The Mason on which we offered ("We Bought A Boat - But We Gave It
Back" seen in this space recently) had wind on it. It was not a
particularly windy day, but it, too, was inaudible. I'm sure that, even had
I not noticed at the time, my very sensitive video mike would have picked up
noticeable noise. There wasn't any.

Case 3: One of the two highly rehabbed Morgan 46s I saw on this recent trip
had wind on the mizzen. No apparent sound as it flew around - even with my
zoom mike (my video increases the sensitivity of the mike as it zooms the
visual)..

I agree that I have heard noisy wind generators. But there are at least
three in my video archives which I know should be acceptable to any. None
of them are KISS, about which I've read good things...

I'll continue my intent to have both wind and solar, both of which, had I to
park next to a noisy one, are preferable to a generator, regardless of how
noisy they were.

L8R

Skip

--
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away
from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain

"JJ" wrote in message
...
It's all relative - some wind gens are extremely loud, and some and
just loud - but they're all too ****ing loud for a quiet anchorage -
day or night - or more likely - day AND night. You might think it's
your "right" to add "quiet" noise to an anchorage - but you're wrong.

I've not done enough checking to say with any certainty on a blanket level,
but I can cite three anecdotal instances where there were wind generators
and I was totally unaware of any noise. Mind you, I'm not saying they
*didn't* make any noise. I am, however, saying I couldn't hear any.

Case 1: We were anchored for a weekend in the Road Harbor bay, not far from
the Tortola Marine Management touted in this group on occasion by those who
have used them. We were immediately adjacent to a boat which had *2* wind
generators. Since there was a pretty good breeze that weekend, they were
going a mile a minute. We didn't hear a thing. It was impressive enough
that I took many pictures of it, just to be sure that that was the kind *we*
got. They weren't KISS, I don't think, as that was 2 years ago, and this
was a very much older boat. Was it the wind level that made them inaudible?
I don't know. If it's blowing hard enough to make the noise they generate
inaudible, they're also generating a lot of juice. If it's not (blowing
that hard - and therefore they're turning slower), they'd probably be
quieter. Either way, I can say for certain that they were not an intrusion
to an anchorage.

Case 2: The Mason on which we offered ("We Bought A Boat - But We Gave It
Back" seen in this space recently) had wind on it. It was not a
particularly windy day, but it, too, was inaudible. I'm sure that, even had
I not noticed at the time, my very sensitive video mike would have picked up
noticeable noise. There wasn't any.

Case 3: One of the two highly rehabbed Morgan 46s I saw on this recent trip
had wind on the mizzen. No apparent sound as it flew around - even with my
zoom mike (my video increases the sensitivity of the mike as it zooms the
visual)..

I agree that I have heard noisy wind generators. But there are at least
three in my video archives which I know should be acceptable to any. None
of them are KISS, about which I've read good things...

I'll continue my intent to have both wind and solar, both of which, had I to
park next to a noisy one, are preferable to a generator, regardless of how
noisy they were.

L8R

Skip

--
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away
from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain

www.kissenergy.com is the company's site.
www.svhotwire.com is the US distributor.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Do they have a website?

"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
6...
I'm in complete agreement with Doug & that's why I got a KISS. I *hate*
Marine Air generators and won't anchor near them. I wanted a wind
generator which would provide good output and would be quiet. The last
thing that I wanted was to be forced out of my cockpit due to the noise
of the generator. Check them out...they're quiet.

-- Geoff

"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:

You will if you use a properly balanced KISS generator.
Very quiet and generates more power than any other
generator I have encountered.

Doug
s/v Callista

"JJ" wrote in message
...
If you want peace and quiet (and low maintenance) - you're not going
to get it with wind generators - and neither will any other boats in
the anchorage.


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:44:24 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

Since part of the reason for going offshore for
the rest of my life is peace and quiet, running engines or
generators
isn't
very appealing, and so I expect to have substantial solar and wind
generation to minimize that. Of course, once under way, there will
be enough instances of running the engine, I expect, that it won't
be of
issue
very often.

So, I'm anticipating doing something using 12V, if for no other
reason
than
greater efficiency than having to turn it into 120V, when I'm not
running some IC power source. I'm currently open on the subject of
(IC[diesel -
I
don't think I'd consider gas]) generators, but nearly certainly
would not buy one if it didn't come with the boat we buy. But, if
we had one,
likely
I'd like a combo ability (12V/120V), perhaps even with a tie-in to
an engine-driven compressor if it's cold plates we use.

Have you done any calculations on the load required to run cold
plates (daily amp hours) vs evaporators for the ability to keep a
given volume
to a
given temperature? One of the boat types we've considered has an
example
of
a refit set of evaporators, so it has me thinking... (They wrapped
it around the previous freezer section, entirely, at the top, and
had a
box/lid
topmounted in the previous reefer space, each having their own knob
temperature adjusters. I don't recall the brand, but there were two
compressors in the engine room, backed up against the reefer/frig
space.)

Thanks.

L8R

Skip (and Lydia)

www.kissenergy.com is the company's site.
www.svhotwire.com is the US distributor.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Do they have a website?

"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
6...
I'm in complete agreement with Doug & that's why I got a KISS. I *hate*
Marine Air generators and won't anchor near them. I wanted a wind
generator which would provide good output and would be quiet. The last
thing that I wanted was to be forced out of my cockpit due to the noise
of the generator. Check them out...they're quiet.

-- Geoff

"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:

You will if you use a properly balanced KISS generator.
Very quiet and generates more power than any other
generator I have encountered.

Doug
s/v Callista

"JJ" wrote in message
...
If you want peace and quiet (and low maintenance) - you're not going
to get it with wind generators - and neither will any other boats in
the anchorage.


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:44:24 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

Since part of the reason for going offshore for
the rest of my life is peace and quiet, running engines or
generators
isn't
very appealing, and so I expect to have substantial solar and wind
generation to minimize that. Of course, once under way, there will
be enough instances of running the engine, I expect, that it won't
be of
issue
very often.

So, I'm anticipating doing something using 12V, if for no other
reason
than
greater efficiency than having to turn it into 120V, when I'm not
running some IC power source. I'm currently open on the subject of
(IC[diesel -
I
don't think I'd consider gas]) generators, but nearly certainly
would not buy one if it didn't come with the boat we buy. But, if
we had one,
likely
I'd like a combo ability (12V/120V), perhaps even with a tie-in to
an engine-driven compressor if it's cold plates we use.

Have you done any calculations on the load required to run cold
plates (daily amp hours) vs evaporators for the ability to keep a
given volume
to a
given temperature? One of the boat types we've considered has an
example
of
a refit set of evaporators, so it has me thinking... (They wrapped
it around the previous freezer section, entirely, at the top, and
had a
box/lid
topmounted in the previous reefer space, each having their own knob
temperature adjusters. I don't recall the brand, but there were two
compressors in the engine room, backed up against the reefer/frig
space.)

Thanks.

L8R

Skip (and Lydia)

Sorry, you are incorrect. My KISS is so quiet that I
can't hear it unless I concentrate when I am 100'
away in a dingy in the anchorage.

Doug
s/v Callista

"JJ" wrote in message
...
It's all relative - some wind gens are extremely loud, and some and
just loud - but they're all too ****ing loud for a quiet anchorage -
day or night - or more likely - day AND night. You might think it's
your "right" to add "quiet" noise to an anchorage - but you're wrong.


On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:13:34 GMT, "Geoffrey W. Schultz"
wrote:

I'm in complete agreement with Doug & that's why I got a KISS. I *hate*
Marine Air generators and won't anchor near them. I wanted a wind
generator which would provide good output and would be quiet. The last
thing that I wanted was to be forced out of my cockpit due to the noise
of the generator. Check them out...they're quiet.

-- Geoff

"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:

You will if you use a properly balanced KISS generator.
Very quiet and generates more power than any other
generator I have encountered.

Doug
s/v Callista

"JJ" wrote in message
...
If you want peace and quiet (and low maintenance) - you're not going
to get it with wind generators - and neither will any other boats in
the anchorage.


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:44:24 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

Since part of the reason for going offshore for
the rest of my life is peace and quiet, running engines or
generators
isn't
very appealing, and so I expect to have substantial solar and wind
generation to minimize that. Of course, once under way, there will
be enough instances of running the engine, I expect, that it won't
be of
issue
very often.

So, I'm anticipating doing something using 12V, if for no other
reason
than
greater efficiency than having to turn it into 120V, when I'm not
running some IC power source. I'm currently open on the subject of
(IC[diesel -
I
don't think I'd consider gas]) generators, but nearly certainly
would not buy one if it didn't come with the boat we buy. But, if
we had one,
likely
I'd like a combo ability (12V/120V), perhaps even with a tie-in to
an engine-driven compressor if it's cold plates we use.

Have you done any calculations on the load required to run cold
plates (daily amp hours) vs evaporators for the ability to keep a
given volume
to a
given temperature? One of the boat types we've considered has an
example
of
a refit set of evaporators, so it has me thinking... (They wrapped
it around the previous freezer section, entirely, at the top, and
had a
box/lid
topmounted in the previous reefer space, each having their own knob
temperature adjusters. I don't recall the brand, but there were two
compressors in the engine room, backed up against the reefer/frig
space.)

Thanks.

L8R

Skip (and Lydia)

Sorry, you are incorrect. My KISS is so quiet that I
can't hear it unless I concentrate when I am 100'
away in a dingy in the anchorage.

Doug
s/v Callista

"JJ" wrote in message
...
It's all relative - some wind gens are extremely loud, and some and
just loud - but they're all too ****ing loud for a quiet anchorage -
day or night - or more likely - day AND night. You might think it's
your "right" to add "quiet" noise to an anchorage - but you're wrong.


On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:13:34 GMT, "Geoffrey W. Schultz"
wrote:

I'm in complete agreement with Doug & that's why I got a KISS. I *hate*
Marine Air generators and won't anchor near them. I wanted a wind
generator which would provide good output and would be quiet. The last
thing that I wanted was to be forced out of my cockpit due to the noise
of the generator. Check them out...they're quiet.

-- Geoff

"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:

You will if you use a properly balanced KISS generator.
Very quiet and generates more power than any other
generator I have encountered.

Doug
s/v Callista

"JJ" wrote in message
...
If you want peace and quiet (and low maintenance) - you're not going
to get it with wind generators - and neither will any other boats in
the anchorage.


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:44:24 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

Since part of the reason for going offshore for
the rest of my life is peace and quiet, running engines or
generators
isn't
very appealing, and so I expect to have substantial solar and wind
generation to minimize that. Of course, once under way, there will
be enough instances of running the engine, I expect, that it won't
be of
issue
very often.

So, I'm anticipating doing something using 12V, if for no other
reason
than
greater efficiency than having to turn it into 120V, when I'm not
running some IC power source. I'm currently open on the subject of
(IC[diesel -
I
don't think I'd consider gas]) generators, but nearly certainly
would not buy one if it didn't come with the boat we buy. But, if
we had one,
likely
I'd like a combo ability (12V/120V), perhaps even with a tie-in to
an engine-driven compressor if it's cold plates we use.

Have you done any calculations on the load required to run cold
plates (daily amp hours) vs evaporators for the ability to keep a
given volume
to a
given temperature? One of the boat types we've considered has an
example
of
a refit set of evaporators, so it has me thinking... (They wrapped
it around the previous freezer section, entirely, at the top, and
had a
box/lid
topmounted in the previous reefer space, each having their own knob
temperature adjusters. I don't recall the brand, but there were two
compressors in the engine room, backed up against the reefer/frig
space.)

Thanks.

L8R

Skip (and Lydia)

Rutland generators are very quiet. Unfortunately they
dopn;t generate much power either. Ampair is the
same story.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in
message ink.net...
"JJ" wrote in message
...
It's all relative - some wind gens are extremely loud, and some and
just loud - but they're all too ****ing loud for a quiet anchorage -
day or night - or more likely - day AND night. You might think it's
your "right" to add "quiet" noise to an anchorage - but you're wrong.

I've not done enough checking to say with any certainty on a blanket
level,
but I can cite three anecdotal instances where there were wind generators
and I was totally unaware of any noise. Mind you, I'm not saying they
*didn't* make any noise. I am, however, saying I couldn't hear any.

Case 1: We were anchored for a weekend in the Road Harbor bay, not far
from
the Tortola Marine Management touted in this group on occasion by those
who
have used them. We were immediately adjacent to a boat which had *2* wind
generators. Since there was a pretty good breeze that weekend, they were
going a mile a minute. We didn't hear a thing. It was impressive enough
that I took many pictures of it, just to be sure that that was the kind
*we*
got. They weren't KISS, I don't think, as that was 2 years ago, and this
was a very much older boat. Was it the wind level that made them
inaudible?
I don't know. If it's blowing hard enough to make the noise they generate
inaudible, they're also generating a lot of juice. If it's not (blowing
that hard - and therefore they're turning slower), they'd probably be
quieter. Either way, I can say for certain that they were not an intrusion
to an anchorage.

Case 2: The Mason on which we offered ("We Bought A Boat - But We Gave It
Back" seen in this space recently) had wind on it. It was not a
particularly windy day, but it, too, was inaudible. I'm sure that, even
had
I not noticed at the time, my very sensitive video mike would have picked
up
noticeable noise. There wasn't any.

Case 3: One of the two highly rehabbed Morgan 46s I saw on this recent
trip
had wind on the mizzen. No apparent sound as it flew around - even with
my
zoom mike (my video increases the sensitivity of the mike as it zooms the
visual)..

I agree that I have heard noisy wind generators. But there are at least
three in my video archives which I know should be acceptable to any. None
of them are KISS, about which I've read good things...

I'll continue my intent to have both wind and solar, both of which, had I
to
park next to a noisy one, are preferable to a generator, regardless of how
noisy they were.

L8R

Skip

--
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away
from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain

Rutland generators are very quiet. Unfortunately they
dopn;t generate much power either. Ampair is the
same story.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in
message ink.net...
"JJ" wrote in message
...
It's all relative - some wind gens are extremely loud, and some and
just loud - but they're all too ****ing loud for a quiet anchorage -
day or night - or more likely - day AND night. You might think it's
your "right" to add "quiet" noise to an anchorage - but you're wrong.

I've not done enough checking to say with any certainty on a blanket
level,
but I can cite three anecdotal instances where there were wind generators
and I was totally unaware of any noise. Mind you, I'm not saying they
*didn't* make any noise. I am, however, saying I couldn't hear any.

Case 1: We were anchored for a weekend in the Road Harbor bay, not far
from
the Tortola Marine Management touted in this group on occasion by those
who
have used them. We were immediately adjacent to a boat which had *2* wind
generators. Since there was a pretty good breeze that weekend, they were
going a mile a minute. We didn't hear a thing. It was impressive enough
that I took many pictures of it, just to be sure that that was the kind
*we*
got. They weren't KISS, I don't think, as that was 2 years ago, and this
was a very much older boat. Was it the wind level that made them
inaudible?
I don't know. If it's blowing hard enough to make the noise they generate
inaudible, they're also generating a lot of juice. If it's not (blowing
that hard - and therefore they're turning slower), they'd probably be
quieter. Either way, I can say for certain that they were not an intrusion
to an anchorage.

Case 2: The Mason on which we offered ("We Bought A Boat - But We Gave It
Back" seen in this space recently) had wind on it. It was not a
particularly windy day, but it, too, was inaudible. I'm sure that, even
had
I not noticed at the time, my very sensitive video mike would have picked
up
noticeable noise. There wasn't any.

Case 3: One of the two highly rehabbed Morgan 46s I saw on this recent
trip
had wind on the mizzen. No apparent sound as it flew around - even with
my
zoom mike (my video increases the sensitivity of the mike as it zooms the
visual)..

I agree that I have heard noisy wind generators. But there are at least
three in my video archives which I know should be acceptable to any. None
of them are KISS, about which I've read good things...

I'll continue my intent to have both wind and solar, both of which, had I
to
park next to a noisy one, are preferable to a generator, regardless of how
noisy they were.

L8R

Skip

--
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away
from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain

Baloney!! That is OLD information sir. I have a new KISS generator, and it is
capable of 500W at the top (which we have seen in 25 kt winds). Regardless of
speed, the generator is quiet. There is no vibration, and the only sound is a
slight whish-ing sound if you are in the cockpit.

I would guess that if you were in a dinghy, 10 from the boat, you would not
know if the wind gen was running.
Now with the previous models like the Whisper series, Airgen etc.they DO make
more noise, but not anywhere as bad as you make out.

Larry Demers

JJ wrote:

If you want peace and quiet (and low maintenance) - you're not going
to get it with wind generators - and neither will any other boats in
the anchorage.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:44:24 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

Since part of the reason for going offshore for
the rest of my life is peace and quiet, running engines or generators isn't
very appealing, and so I expect to have substantial solar and wind
generation to minimize that. Of course, once under way, there will be
enough instances of running the engine, I expect, that it won't be of issue
very often.

So, I'm anticipating doing something using 12V, if for no other reason than
greater efficiency than having to turn it into 120V, when I'm not running
some IC power source. I'm currently open on the subject of (IC[diesel - I
don't think I'd consider gas]) generators, but nearly certainly would not
buy one if it didn't come with the boat we buy. But, if we had one, likely
I'd like a combo ability (12V/120V), perhaps even with a tie-in to an
engine-driven compressor if it's cold plates we use.

Have you done any calculations on the load required to run cold plates
(daily amp hours) vs evaporators for the ability to keep a given volume to a
given temperature? One of the boat types we've considered has an example of
a refit set of evaporators, so it has me thinking... (They wrapped it
around the previous freezer section, entirely, at the top, and had a box/lid
topmounted in the previous reefer space, each having their own knob
temperature adjusters. I don't recall the brand, but there were two
compressors in the engine room, backed up against the reefer/frig space.)

Thanks.

L8R

Skip (and Lydia)