"Bruce" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:18:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Verizon News" wrote in message
news:%NOni.4475$SM6.2392@trnddc01...
The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I
am
all for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for

http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous


Anybody who buys a trawler deserves to pay out the ass for his fuel.
Those trawlers are ugly, smelly, noisy and make about as much sense on
the water as driving a semi tractor on the road for your road trip
vacations.

I have no sympathy for anybody who runs a diesel engine for
recreational
purposes. Don't you realize how much pollution a marine diesel engine
produces? It's totally selfish and irresponsible. Anybody running a
marine diesel for recreational purposes is sick in my opinion. No
regard
whatsoever for clean air and a clean marine environment. When
somebody's
'fun' takes precedence over my rights (to a clean environment) then I
cannot excuse such hedonism.

I wish they'd jack the price of recreational marine diesel up to about
fifty bucks a gallon. Maybe people would be forced to buy
environmentally friendly sailboats that use small, clean-air,
4-stroke,
gasoline outboards when needed but use sails most of the time. When
your 'cruising' is a blatant act of pollution and you don't even
realize
it then you're just clueless and nobody I want to associate with....

Wilbur Hubbard



Wilber old buddy, your ideas have some validity when applied to a
skiff but don't work so well when you are talking about a 40 ft. 7 ton
sailboat. In addition, if you ever start really cruising you will
discover that sometimes the wind just doesn't blow and after you have
been becalmed for a few days in the S. China Sea, as a buddy of mine
just did, you'll probably want to start motoring toward somewhere you
think you might be able to buy some grub and your little outboard just
isn't going to cut it.

By the way, if your theory about motor boats was really correct the
world's ocean freight would still be carried on sailing ships.....

I made the distinction quite clear with regards to 'recreational' use of
marine diesel engines. Just like truck freight over the road depends of
big diesel rigs so does freight over the oceans. In my opinion, it is an
acceptable compromise to use diesel engines for commerce although I
would like to see emission standards tightened up.

But, when it comes to recreational use of diesel engines in boats I find
this to be totally unacceptable. The typical marine recreational diesel
meets NO emission standards that I know of. They are often old,
decrepit, in ill-repair and in need of an overhaul. Visible smoke is
more the rule than the exception. The stench of them is enough to sicken
even the crew. And people continue to use them for recreational
purposes. In other words, strictly for selfish reasons - their 'fun.'

I find this appalling. That people would knowingly pollute the air and
water during any 'optional' activity tells me these people have no
regard for anybody but their own selfish selves. If they were
responsible human beings they would use an engine that meets or exceeds
current emission standards. That means a late-model gasoline engine. And
don't tell me no such engines exist for marine use. The choice of a
diesel engine is the wrong choice when looked at from the environmental
standpoint.

One other thing, if one can't abide being becalmed from time to time
then don't take up sailing.

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:



I find this appalling. That people would knowingly pollute the air and
water during any 'optional' activity tells me these people have no
regard for anybody but their own selfish selves. If they were
responsible human beings they would use an engine that meets or exceeds
current emission standards. That means a late-model gasoline engine. And
don't tell me no such engines exist for marine use. The choice of a
diesel engine is the wrong choice when looked at from the environmental
standpoint.

One other thing, if one can't abide being becalmed from time to time
then don't take up sailing.


There are unresolved safety issues with gasoline engines. You can very
well say that sailing with a petrol engine is irresponsible because you
can blow yourself, your family and others near you up. Also consider
that if a tank of gasoline blows up, there are no pollution controls on
that.

I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they
are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing,
IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have
twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes -
both times with deaths.

Also the least of my problems when sailing is becoming becalmed. I need
my axillary to safely maneuver in tight places to assure safety to
others in the area. I may need it to claw off a lee shore and in fact have.

Yes, the old timers used sail only and there are wrecks on those lee
shores to prove it. I don't want to join them.

Now, instead of railing against we who see things differently from you,
if you choose to lobby for pollution controls on all diesels, then we
can form common cause. Else, sail away.

Paul Cassel wrote:

Now, instead of railing against we who see things differently from you,
if you choose to lobby for pollution controls on all diesels, then we
can form common cause. Else, sail away.

Nice try, and well stated, Paul.

But that's all this Wilbur guy does.

Richard

"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
. ..
snip....
Now, instead of railing against we who see things differently from you, if
you choose to lobby for pollution controls on all diesels, then we can
form common cause. Else, sail away.


You're replying to a roll who prides himself on spending his retirement
years in a mustard yellow sailboat c/w mauve interior.
This decaying hulk is usually found in some mosquito infested swamp one step
ahead of the authorities.

Paul Cassel wrote in
:

I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they
are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing,
IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have
twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes -
both times with deaths.


That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon
black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection
is setup way wrong....

What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING
POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR
Dioxide!

www.frybrid.com


Larry
--
Shhhh...Don't tell Algore...
The Earth is COOLING!

On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 10:56:39 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:18:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Verizon News" wrote in message
news:%NOni.4475$SM6.2392@trnddc01...
The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I
am
all for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for

http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous


Anybody who buys a trawler deserves to pay out the ass for his fuel.
Those trawlers are ugly, smelly, noisy and make about as much sense on
the water as driving a semi tractor on the road for your road trip
vacations.

I have no sympathy for anybody who runs a diesel engine for
recreational
purposes. Don't you realize how much pollution a marine diesel engine
produces? It's totally selfish and irresponsible. Anybody running a
marine diesel for recreational purposes is sick in my opinion. No
regard
whatsoever for clean air and a clean marine environment. When
somebody's
'fun' takes precedence over my rights (to a clean environment) then I
cannot excuse such hedonism.

I wish they'd jack the price of recreational marine diesel up to about
fifty bucks a gallon. Maybe people would be forced to buy
environmentally friendly sailboats that use small, clean-air,
4-stroke,
gasoline outboards when needed but use sails most of the time. When
your 'cruising' is a blatant act of pollution and you don't even
realize
it then you're just clueless and nobody I want to associate with....

Wilbur Hubbard



Wilber old buddy, your ideas have some validity when applied to a
skiff but don't work so well when you are talking about a 40 ft. 7 ton
sailboat. In addition, if you ever start really cruising you will
discover that sometimes the wind just doesn't blow and after you have
been becalmed for a few days in the S. China Sea, as a buddy of mine
just did, you'll probably want to start motoring toward somewhere you
think you might be able to buy some grub and your little outboard just
isn't going to cut it.

By the way, if your theory about motor boats was really correct the
world's ocean freight would still be carried on sailing ships.....

I made the distinction quite clear with regards to 'recreational' use of
marine diesel engines. Just like truck freight over the road depends of
big diesel rigs so does freight over the oceans. In my opinion, it is an
acceptable compromise to use diesel engines for commerce although I
would like to see emission standards tightened up.

But, when it comes to recreational use of diesel engines in boats I find
this to be totally unacceptable. The typical marine recreational diesel
meets NO emission standards that I know of. They are often old,
decrepit, in ill-repair and in need of an overhaul. Visible smoke is
more the rule than the exception. The stench of them is enough to sicken
even the crew. And people continue to use them for recreational
purposes. In other words, strictly for selfish reasons - their 'fun.'

I find this appalling. That people would knowingly pollute the air and
water during any 'optional' activity tells me these people have no
regard for anybody but their own selfish selves. If they were
responsible human beings they would use an engine that meets or exceeds
current emission standards. That means a late-model gasoline engine. And
don't tell me no such engines exist for marine use. The choice of a
diesel engine is the wrong choice when looked at from the environmental
standpoint.

One other thing, if one can't abide being becalmed from time to time
then don't take up sailing.

Wilbur Hubbard

First of all you do not compare apples to apples. Your rant appears to
concern a new, computer controlled gasoline engine as compared to an
older model direct injection diesel engine. And, yes, you are probably
right that the modern engine produces less pollutants then the old
style diesel.

Of course this is a ridicules comparison -- as ridicules as condemning
the amount of horse manure my grandfather's horse and buggy produced
by comparing it to my father's Model 'A' Ford.

I suggest that if you compare the pollutants produced by a modern
computer controlled diesel engine to that produced by a modern
gasoline engine you might find a different picture.

As for the odors produced by engines I am assuming you are referring
to the exhaust. A properly designed diesel system produces little, if
any odor.

As far as your statement that "I find this appalling. That people
would knowingly pollute the air and water during any 'optional'
activity tells me these people have no regard for anybody but their
own selfish selves." is quite simply self serving bull****.

If you really find the use of polluting devices appalling then you
would be rowing your dinghy out to the mooring and sailing away -- no
engine at all.

But that isn't what you are doing. You have a gasoline engine that you
use and then you try to justify your actions by saying, in effect,
that your engine produces less pollutants than mine -- My daddy can
lick your daddy, in other words. Very reminiscent of the 4th grade.

Your final comment that "One other thing, if one can't abide being
becalmed from time to time then don't take up sailing" simply
indicates that you have never actually "cruised". Oh, maybe a little
day sailing but how many trips have you made where you didn't expect
to see land for three weeks to a month?

When you are sitting 250 miles off shore and the wind hasn't made a
ripple on the water for three days, as happened to a friend of mine,
you too might find the thought of trying to motor that 250 miles to
get to a place you can buy some food and water as somewhat appealing.

I had another friend that was depending on one of your recommended
outboards, because his sail drive ate it's gears, and the wind
stopped. It took him 10 days to make just a bit over 100 miles to
shore, drifting most of the way. Those little outboard tanks sure
don't carry much fuel.

No Wildur, you go out and make a couple of real voyages and then come
back and talk to me. You might even find that we'd agree on a lot more
things that you think we would.










Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

This whole thread is pretty goofy considering all the two stroke
British Seagulls out there using 10:1 oil mix. Course the newer ones use
25:1 !

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 07:49:44 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

Your final comment that "One other thing, if one can't abide being
becalmed from time to time then don't take up sailing" simply
indicates that you have never actually "cruised". Oh, maybe a little
day sailing but how many trips have you made where you didn't expect
to see land for three weeks to a month?

When you are sitting 250 miles off shore and the wind hasn't made a
ripple on the water for three days, as happened to a friend of mine,
you too might find the thought of trying to motor that 250 miles to
get to a place you can buy some food and water as somewhat appealing.

I had another friend that was depending on one of your recommended
outboards, because his sail drive ate it's gears, and the wind
stopped. It took him 10 days to make just a bit over 100 miles to
shore, drifting most of the way. Those little outboard tanks sure
don't carry much fuel.

No Wildur, you go out and make a couple of real voyages and then come
back and talk to me. You might even find that we'd agree on a lot more
things that you think we would.


Very well said Bruce

cheers
Peter

Bruce wrote in
:

self serving bull****.

Wilbur is a professional. Don't try this at home!

Larry
--

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:18:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


I have no sympathy for anybody who runs a diesel engine for recreational
purposes. Don't you realize how much pollution a marine diesel engine
produces? It's totally selfish and irresponsible. Anybody running a
marine diesel for recreational purposes is sick in my opinion. No regard
whatsoever for clean air and a clean marine environment. When somebody's
'fun' takes precedence over my rights (to a clean environment) then I
cannot excuse such hedonism.

I wish they'd jack the price of recreational marine diesel up to about
fifty bucks a gallon. Maybe people would be forced to buy
environmentally friendly sailboats that use small, clean-air, 4-stroke,
gasoline outboards when needed but use sails most of the time. When
your 'cruising' is a blatant act of pollution and you don't even realize
it then you're just clueless and nobody I want to associate with....

Wilbur Hubbard

Wait a minute!!.......

Isn't this the same person who posted a while back that he used TBT in
his antifouling?

God is great!!! This man has had a sudden about-face conversion into
an environmentalist!

How did this inspirational sudden insight take place Wilbur? Was in
whilst you were sniffing your petrol tank? I have heard a lot about
the evils of petrol sniffing but never diesel sniffing; another reason
why is it is more socioenvironmentally friendly.

Ever so kindest regards
Peter Hendra