"Bruce" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:18:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Verizon News" wrote in message
news:%NOni.4475$SM6.2392@trnddc01...
The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I
am
all for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for

http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous


Anybody who buys a trawler deserves to pay out the ass for his fuel.
Those trawlers are ugly, smelly, noisy and make about as much sense on
the water as driving a semi tractor on the road for your road trip
vacations.

I have no sympathy for anybody who runs a diesel engine for
recreational
purposes. Don't you realize how much pollution a marine diesel engine
produces? It's totally selfish and irresponsible. Anybody running a
marine diesel for recreational purposes is sick in my opinion. No
regard
whatsoever for clean air and a clean marine environment. When
somebody's
'fun' takes precedence over my rights (to a clean environment) then I
cannot excuse such hedonism.

I wish they'd jack the price of recreational marine diesel up to about
fifty bucks a gallon. Maybe people would be forced to buy
environmentally friendly sailboats that use small, clean-air,
4-stroke,
gasoline outboards when needed but use sails most of the time. When
your 'cruising' is a blatant act of pollution and you don't even
realize
it then you're just clueless and nobody I want to associate with....

Wilbur Hubbard



Wilber old buddy, your ideas have some validity when applied to a
skiff but don't work so well when you are talking about a 40 ft. 7 ton
sailboat. In addition, if you ever start really cruising you will
discover that sometimes the wind just doesn't blow and after you have
been becalmed for a few days in the S. China Sea, as a buddy of mine
just did, you'll probably want to start motoring toward somewhere you
think you might be able to buy some grub and your little outboard just
isn't going to cut it.

By the way, if your theory about motor boats was really correct the
world's ocean freight would still be carried on sailing ships.....

I made the distinction quite clear with regards to 'recreational' use of
marine diesel engines. Just like truck freight over the road depends of
big diesel rigs so does freight over the oceans. In my opinion, it is an
acceptable compromise to use diesel engines for commerce although I
would like to see emission standards tightened up.

But, when it comes to recreational use of diesel engines in boats I find
this to be totally unacceptable. The typical marine recreational diesel
meets NO emission standards that I know of. They are often old,
decrepit, in ill-repair and in need of an overhaul. Visible smoke is
more the rule than the exception. The stench of them is enough to sicken
even the crew. And people continue to use them for recreational
purposes. In other words, strictly for selfish reasons - their 'fun.'

I find this appalling. That people would knowingly pollute the air and
water during any 'optional' activity tells me these people have no
regard for anybody but their own selfish selves. If they were
responsible human beings they would use an engine that meets or exceeds
current emission standards. That means a late-model gasoline engine. And
don't tell me no such engines exist for marine use. The choice of a
diesel engine is the wrong choice when looked at from the environmental
standpoint.

One other thing, if one can't abide being becalmed from time to time
then don't take up sailing.

Wilbur Hubbard

Dave wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:57:40 -0600, Paul Cassel
said:

why oh why did the demons have to visit upon us at this otherwise
wonderful era? The world wonders.

LOL. Where'd you pick up that neat skewer, Paul?

Mr.b seems to be missing a sense of humor.

I'd say he's a laughable twit. Perhaps that's not the same as having a
sense of humor after all.

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:



I find this appalling. That people would knowingly pollute the air and
water during any 'optional' activity tells me these people have no
regard for anybody but their own selfish selves. If they were
responsible human beings they would use an engine that meets or exceeds
current emission standards. That means a late-model gasoline engine. And
don't tell me no such engines exist for marine use. The choice of a
diesel engine is the wrong choice when looked at from the environmental
standpoint.

One other thing, if one can't abide being becalmed from time to time
then don't take up sailing.


There are unresolved safety issues with gasoline engines. You can very
well say that sailing with a petrol engine is irresponsible because you
can blow yourself, your family and others near you up. Also consider
that if a tank of gasoline blows up, there are no pollution controls on
that.

I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they
are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing,
IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have
twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes -
both times with deaths.

Also the least of my problems when sailing is becoming becalmed. I need
my axillary to safely maneuver in tight places to assure safety to
others in the area. I may need it to claw off a lee shore and in fact have.

Yes, the old timers used sail only and there are wrecks on those lee
shores to prove it. I don't want to join them.

Now, instead of railing against we who see things differently from you,
if you choose to lobby for pollution controls on all diesels, then we
can form common cause. Else, sail away.

Paul Cassel wrote:

Now, instead of railing against we who see things differently from you,
if you choose to lobby for pollution controls on all diesels, then we
can form common cause. Else, sail away.

Nice try, and well stated, Paul.

But that's all this Wilbur guy does.

Richard

"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
. ..
snip....
Now, instead of railing against we who see things differently from you, if
you choose to lobby for pollution controls on all diesels, then we can
form common cause. Else, sail away.


You're replying to a roll who prides himself on spending his retirement
years in a mustard yellow sailboat c/w mauve interior.
This decaying hulk is usually found in some mosquito infested swamp one step
ahead of the authorities.

Paul Cassel wrote in
:

I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they
are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing,
IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have
twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes -
both times with deaths.


That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon
black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection
is setup way wrong....

What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING
POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR
Dioxide!

www.frybrid.com


Larry
--
Shhhh...Don't tell Algore...
The Earth is COOLING!

Larry wrote:
Paul Cassel wrote in
:

I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they
are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing,
IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have
twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes -
both times with deaths.


That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon
black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection
is setup way wrong....

What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING
POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR
Dioxide!

www.frybrid.com


Larry


Yours? You own diesel engines now? On what?

"HK" wrote in message
...
Larry wrote:
Paul Cassel wrote in
:

I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they
are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing,
IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have
twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes -
both times with deaths.


That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon
black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection
is setup way wrong....

What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING
POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR
Dioxide!

www.frybrid.com


Larry


Yours? You own diesel engines now? On what?

Larry drives around stinking up the Charlston area with old french fry oil
in his Mercedes tank.

Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Larry wrote:
Paul Cassel wrote in
:

I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but they
are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use nothing,
IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety issue. I have
twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to petrol fumes -
both times with deaths.

That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out carbon
black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if your injection
is setup way wrong....

What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING
POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR
Dioxide!

www.frybrid.com


Larry

Yours? You own diesel engines now? On what?

Larry drives around stinking up the Charlston area with old french fry oil
in his Mercedes tank.



Good lord...he's still got that decrepit p.o.s.? Can't you just see
Larry knocking on the back door of a McDonald's, five gallon jerry can
in hand, begging for used fry oil?

HK wrote in
:

Larry wrote:
Paul Cassel wrote in
:

I'm in agreement that diesel engines are disgusting polluters, but
they are all we have in marine life. We can either use them or use
nothing, IMO. I won't sail with petrol engines due to the safety
issue. I have twice been personal witness to yachts exploding due to
petrol fumes - both times with deaths.


That's odd.....No NOx output, nearly unmeasurable CO, spews out
carbon black but only if you romp it too hard, only spews fuel if
your injection is setup way wrong....

What's so disgusting about diesel? Mine are all BURNING
POLLUTANTS....waste frying oil! Frying oil doesn't even make SULPHUR
Dioxide!

www.frybrid.com


Larry


Yours? You own diesel engines now? On what?


My 6.2L V-8 stepvan, an old Air Force truck, has a Frybrid running pure
oil we get from 3 Chinese restaurants, settle it over a month, pipette
3" off the bottom then filter with 2 truck fuel filter-water seps into 55
gallon drums for usage. Two other guys in our cartel have Frybrids, one
a Mercedes 300SD long wheelbase sedan, the other a Volkswagen diesel bug.
Here in SC, it was all overkill, a waste of money.

After watching a YouTube video from BBC's best car show, I tried what
they were doing on my two old Mercedes diesel cars, one a restored 1973
Mercedes 220D and the other a 1983 Mercedes 300TD turbocharged, 5 cyl
diesel station wagon. I'm currently running a pint of mineral spirits
mixed in 20 gallons of frying oil in those cars, UNMODIFIED, with great
success. Skip and Lydia, of Flying Pig fame, were riding around in my
220D on French Fried Oil last night....for free...(c;

The only big difference I see is the oil fires a little slower, making
less engine knock. They say it has less power and mileage, but I don't
see that for me. When the Frybrid switches over from straight diesel,
which it starts on to warm the oil to 160F from the heater water before
its computer switches, automatically, to fryer oil, I see an increase in
speed at the same throttle setting....more power, not less. I suppose my
observation is subjective and very unscientific. What I DO notice is the
truck went from $95/week to $5/week, overnight. All I have to do is move
the 5 gallon oil containers from the restaurants to George's warehouse,
in the truck for free of course. Mike, the guy with the Volkswagen, is
in charge of "processing". I'm in "delivery". George is in "warehouse
management" because it's his warehouse...(c;

There's about 1400 gallons in the warehouse, tonight, but I got a call,
yesterday, asking me to come get more free product from 2 of the 3
restaurants to make room in their kitchens, so that'll go up another
hundred or so gallons Monday afternoon during the restaurant's afternoon
break (They help me load if they're not real busy...(c.

The restaurants are all provided with a nice primary filter funnel with a
fine screen strainer in the bottom of it to get the oil back from their
cooling tank into the original plastic jugs it comes in, also solving
their oil jug disposal problem. They don't mind, at all, doing this
filtering from us as we are saving them about $100-200/month in disposal
fees. Fuel in any city with restaurants is abundant if one gets off ones
lazy ass and goes to get it. They dump the filter funnels in their
garbage and what I take to the warehouse is fairly filtered of the big
stuff.

After we slowly pump 3" off the bottom of the jugs through our filtering
system, the residue on the bottom is dumped into an empty container.
When several jugs has filled that container, we set it aside for another
month or so to settle it again. In 500 gallons of oil, we find about 2"
of "sludge" in a 5 gallon jug that has settled out. This saves us
changing the final filters, which have lasted nearly a year without
plugging up. The oil we pump in the vehicles is so clear you can read
through it. A gallon clear water bottle of it sits on my porch so I can
watch for it to get cloudy in winter, which, in South Carolina, it has
only done twice last year. A second clear bottle of the 80% oil/20%
gasoline I WAS using last winter in the unmodified cars is also up there
and it never clouds, at all. I've gotten away from gas/oil mix as
mineral spirits from a commercial paint supplier is much cheaper than gas
and I use less of it as a thinning agent. Runs great.

All of this sounds good, but I cannot imagine how anyone is going to run
it in a Hatteras 58 guzzling hundreds of gallons. How would you drag it
to the boat, 6 gallons at a time? If you had a warehouse on a WHARF, say
for fishing or shrimp boats....that would be a different matter!

We have so much "surplus", we've discussed procuring a diesel genset and
mounting it behind George's warehouse to turn the excess oil into power
we can sell to South Carolina Electric and Gouge in a new program being
tested. I found a 250KW, 12 cyl diesel genset I could have gotten for
free, control system and all, but to get it here from Alabama would have
cost us a fortune...(c; It was in a hospital and only had 700 hours on
it. The hospital got a bigger one....two, actually. I sure would have
loved to been operating that thing sync'd to the grid....nuts.

Larry
--
We're NOT running out of fuel. We're just running out of Oil Company
fuel.