On Jul 23, 12:36 pm, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:33:10 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
This is NOT sailing.
Get a trawler if that's your modus operandi.

I agree with you on this, and many other points you've mentioned.
But you know what they say about different strokes.
....

I don't agree with much of what Wilbur has written. I do agree with
you about different strokes though. Unlike Bruce, I've met several
very serious cruisers who sail boats without engines, one for
aesthetic reasons and the others because they couldn't afford motors.
I also have a couple of friends who cruise in a 50 foot twin engined
trawler and lots of friends who sail auxiliary sailboats from motor
sailors to folks who seldom carry five gallons of fuel. I'm pretty
sure most of them think I'm crazy to go voyaging in a small
catamaran. It is all cruising. If it makes the folks who are doing
it happy then they are doing it the right way. It is also sailing if
most of it is done under sail power.

-- Tom.

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:26:07 +0000, Larry wrote:

Bruce wrote in
:

Here in Asia there are kerosine fueled outboards. I wonder whether
they are legal in the U.S.



Gotta love those diesel surface drives on the riverboats with the 20'
driveshaft out the back....(c;



Larry

Local answer to the outboard. I've seen them ranging from
Briggs&Straton to 6 cylinder diesels. the later make a really super
engine -- with a chrome plated wide open megaphone exhaust.



Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:33:10 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 13:37:51 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 07:49:44 +0700, Bruce
wrote:


I bet you weigh close to 215-220 pounds and I bet you're around 5'10"
yourself. If so you are MORBIDLY OBESE. You could take off for a two
month ocean cruise with nothing but water and vitamins on boare and
maybe at the end of the voyage you'd be at an acceptable weight. Chew on
that nugget for a while, why don't you?

Well, I'm 1.6 Metres tall and I weigh 63.0 Kg (as of this morning at
0630). I don't know whether you call that fat or not?


Bwahahahhahahah! Some cruising sailor! If you don't have adequate food
and water for at least TWO MONTHS aboard at all times when cruising
then
stay off the oceans. You obviously don't belong there.

The wind rarely stops for more than a couple of days at a time. It's all
part of the game. It's a matter of understanding you are there because
you wanted to be there. You've got to be patient to be a sailor. A
diesel engine tends to cater to the impatient type. But motoring around
is NOT sailing. It's copping out.


That is such a stupid statement that it is hardly worth answering. In
fact the wind does stop blowing for weeks at a time. Read up on
Atlantic crossings for examples, the doldrums. During the N.E.
monsoon it is common to have little or no wind for days at a time here
in S.E. Asia.

pretty long day.

Duh! Isn't it pretty stupid to motor against a current? Why not do the
sensible thing and choose an alternate destination down current? But,
noooo that's why you have that big smelly diesel so you can brute force
your way to a destination. That's not sailing, Bubba!

Well, if you are on the way from Singapore to Langkawi or Phuket the
only way to get there is to go up the Malacca Straits and there are
currents of over 3 knots. Kind of hard to get there unless you do go
that way.

I suppose that you could anchor for half the day and sort of drift the
other half but it would be a hell of a long trip. Probably about a
month to Penang, another two or three days to Langkawi and 10, or more
days to Phuket.


And, by the way, my last trip up from Singapore I met a guy at Port
Klang had blown his Yanmar diesel and fitted a bracket and outboard on
the transom of his 35 ft. wooden sail boat to get to Langkawi. He
wasn't bragging about the tiny amount of fuel his engine was burning
in fact he was trying to sell off his diesel fuel for $0.10 a liter to
get more empty cans to carry more gasoline. He said, "that "damned
thing burns more gas then I can carry."

Damned fool was probably running it wide open trying to emulate the
speed he usually goes under diesel power. To be economical you must run
it around half throttle. The idiot forget he was dragging his huge fixed
three bladed-prop and probably half a coral reef on his bottom. Why
bother with a clean bottom when you can fire up the iron jenny that will
power your mobile coral reef through the water at an acceptable speed.
The fact is rarely does one see a boat with a large inboard diesel
sailing in winds under fifteen knots. They just go too slow because they
are slowed down by the extra drag of prop, strut and bottom fouling. A
real sailboat like an engineless Folkboat can make very good time in
10-15 knots of wind. Close to hull speed in fifteen where the big diesel
heavyweights are striking sail and motoring along. This is NOT sailing.
Get a trawler if that's your modus operandi.

I have no idea how dirty his bottom was. He had just sailed from
Europe. I assume he had the diesel prop on the boat.

A folkboat is, what, a 25 foot boat, if I remember correctly. It is an
old design and from memory it probably has a 20 foot, or less
waterline so hull speed is about 6 knots. I should certainly hope that
you could get that speed with 15K of wind.


I quite frankly find that very hard to believe. I won't dispute that
you may have possible cruised for weeks at a time but I don't believe
that you have made an open ocean trip lasting several weeks or you
wouldn't be talking the way you are.

I guess you've never heard a real traditional sailor talk then. But
staying in marinas with your big diesel buddies you never will. I avoid
marinas at all costs. I haven't tied up to a marine for well over seven
years now. I anchor out or I use a mooring. I can't abide the marina
crowd. A bunch of losers in my opinion - there to get their fix of show
and tell. No satisfaction in a journey. Only in the talking about it and
embellishing it later attempting to be a big fish in a small pond.

Well I'm not sure what you call a "traditional sailor" but would a guy
that was navigator on three whitbread round the world races, made
seven Atlantic crossings, Winner of the Classic class in the Kings Cup
six times, several years single handed exploring the south Pacific,
just delivered a 50 ft. cat from Phuket to Greece, qualify? A good
friend -- I talk to him.

Another friend has for ten years or more made a twice annual non stop
voyage from Phuket to Perth Australia. Is he a sailor?


Duh, the tarp is for those tropical downpours where the wind just sort
of dies. I have a shelf-footed main that does a good job collecting
water from the end of the boom when under way but only after the salt is
washed off real good and only if there is no spray from the sea.


I don't know about the weather in your part of the world but rain in
this part of the world is normally accompanied by high winds (they are
called squalls), enough that the good old water catching tarp usually
capsizes.

Yah right, no fish at sea. Tell that to the many people who've survived
off fish for months from the confines of their life rafts. You just have
to know how to attract them and catch them. Fish oil works real good but
who even knows about fish oil these days.
For your information most sharks are damned good eating and sharks are
just about every where.

A couple of months ago I actually met a guy that had survived three
months in a life raft. There were several people to start and all but
two starved to death.

Well Wilbur, I'm about half the way around the world from where you
are and I got here on a boat so whether you can, or cannot say much
for my knowledge or experience it was certainly adequate to get me
here safe and sound.

Yah real tough coasting from marina to marina. I've done my fair share
of cruising and I've lived aboard for 20 years now. I'd say I've got you
beat for experience any day.

You really, really, ought to look at a map. Some of those marinas are
quite a few days apart.

You have lived aboard for 20 years and I have lived aboard for the
last 15. Big deal. I also sailed during various periods for the past
50 years also so if I still had all my log books I might even have
your 20 years beaten. But so what?

And every one ending up stuck in a marina because of engine maintenance
and repair while the engineless boats are out there crossing oceans not
congregating in marinas and bragging about their "sailing" when most of
what they do is motor.

Wilbur you really do display your ignorance. If you have arrived in
Thailand from somewhere else it is usually New Zealand, Australia or
Indonesia and you do that leg during the S.W. Monsoon season so you
have favorable winds. Now you are in Thailand and your next leg is
across the Indian Ocean and you do not just plunge in and go. What you
do is wait for the S.W. Monsoon to die and the N.E. Monsoon to start
which gives you favorable winds for your Indian Ocean crossing. So you
usually have at least a six month wait in Thailand waiting for the
wind.

Now, you can anchor out and quite a lot of people do. Of course, this
means that you need to be on the east coast during the S.W. Monsoon
and there really is only one place to anchor on that side of the
island. You will be forty miles from town, you'll have to make
arrangements to buy water and haul off your garbage, not to mention
that 40 Km trip to town.

Finally marina charges are cheap here so why bother with all the
hassle?


So, either you don't know what you are rambling on about or these 150
people who sailed their boats for thousands of miles don't.....

They're toast. As soon as they end up in a marina, they're toast. The
end of the road. Sad!

Funny, I see them sail off every year.

So to conclude . . .

Bruce, there's one glaring fault in your thinking. There you sit in a
MARINA probably for the past several months if not a year. Now, more the
wannabe than the world cruiser. A marina is no indication of what boats
real sailors are plying the oceans with. A marina is a good indication
of what kind of boats wannabes or has-beens store in a marina. To know
what's out there cruising the ocean you'd have to be out there yourself
but you'd probably not see another boat for months at a time because the
ocean is that big. And that scares you. You need civilization. You need
your pacifier. A marina fits the bill. There are NO sailors in a marina.

Your are again displaying your ignorance. The marina here has about
150 boats in it. Probably 10 - 15% are here to do major work on their
boat at the cheap Thai rates (doing that myself). Another 10 - 15% are
live aboards and the rest are waiting for the wind. So roughly 100
boats here are real live world cruising boats.

So, in fact this marina is the place to see what is out there cruising
the oceans. Because they just got here and they are leaving shortly.
This is just a place to catch their breath and wait out the winds.

Wilbur Hubbard



Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:39:32 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:56:38 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

"Listen, we had winds on the nose from the time we left Phuket. When I
finally got to the Sunda Straits I was so sick of it I turned
downwind... anyway, Kuching is quite a nice place to visit".

And *that* is real cruising... :-)

Isn't it interesting that we never hear anything about Wilbur's boat
or his latest voyage. Saves on maintenance and other operating costs
I guess.

I guess it was a *real* cruise. His girlfriend got sick in Kuching and
he had to fly her back to Thailand; he got to Singapore and the output
flange on his gearbox broke so he had to get a new one made and when
he finally got to Australia they wanted to charge him A$ 1500 for a
termite inspection on his fero-cement boat.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:18:19 GMT, "Verizon News"
wrote:

The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I am all
for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for

http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous



My old man can hardly support our drinking habits!



























- -
http://magazine.doughstreet.com/page...an_asshole.htm

Doug Kanter Jr wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:18:19 GMT, "Verizon News"
wrote:


The cost of marine diesel for your boat is outrageous these days. I am all
for businesses making an honest buck and I am all for

http://www.billharder.com/boating/39...are-outrageous




My old man can hardly support our drinking habits!



























- -
http://magazine.doughstreet.com/page...an_asshole.htm

Check the overhead of a marine fuel business and their volume against a
gas station and their volume. Then figure out how much you have to make
on each gallon to pay the overhead at each.