On Jun 6, 6:46 am, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:25:44 -0000, wrote:
Hello,

I'm interested in living aboard a boat, cheaply, while retaining a few
of the mod cons.

In my reckless youth I spent a year living aboard a very sketchy 1974
(IIRC) Hunter 25, generally in extreme poverty. Living on a boat was
nice; living on a ramshackle, falling-apart, waterborne-tent of a boat
which I couldn't afford to maintain less so. (I've read the
'Liveaboard Simulator' frequently posted here, and it certainly
brought back memories, though god knows at the time I was in no
position to blow $100 at West Marine on a moment's notice.) I'd like
to get another boat, one on which I can maintain a few basic
amenities. I'm interested in feedback as to whether this is at all
practical and what it might cost.

I see a number of 27-33-foot boats from twenty or thirty years ago, in
decent shape, for very reasonable prices. However, there are a few
things which I'd really appreciate as a full-time liveaboard which
they lack:

1. A shower. I don't have a trust fund, and I'll need to be able to
hold down a job to pay dockage; most workplaces tend to frown on
employees who bathe only weekly. Of course showers are probably
available at a marina, but being able to shower privately in one's own
boat makes a huge difference.

Due space you will probably not find too many 27-33 foot boats with a
shower.

2. Air-conditioning, only while hooked up to shore power. (It seems to
matter much less under way or even at anchor.) Call me spoiled, but I
don't want to spend my free time exclusively in weeks of 100+-degree
heat and still air -- I've been there, done that, and paid my dues.

This is an easy one. Buy a window air con. Sit it on the deck and make
some sort of duct to blow cold air down the hatch. At least a third of
the cruising boats in the marina I keep my boat in are set up that
way-- inlcuding my own boat.

I don't need much else in terms of amenities -- I'd be happy if I
could run lights and a VHF off the 12V, and a laptop at the marina,
and I don't mind pumping my own water in the galley

No reason not to have pressure water. the pumps are cheap enough.

Few to none of the boats in the size range I'm looking for seem to
have these features, so I'm mostly wondering if anyone here has added
them to a production boat, what it cost, and how difficult it was. As
I'll be living aboard alone, with essentially no guests, I'd happily
sacrifice a salon berth or quarter berth toward these ends. Also,
while I'd like a boat I can confidently take on a week's cruise (in
the Great Lakes) if I'm so inclined, realistically I'll probably be
dock-bound aside from day-sails, so serious cruising gear is not a big
factor.

Sure, you can do anything. If the head is big enough build a shower
curtain rail and let the water drain into th bilge is one way. The
curtain keeps the toilet paper dry and usually the bilge is full of
skuz so the wash water won't make any difference in the smell.



Thanks in advance for any anecdotes or advice.

--Eli

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Living in a pool of gray water is not civilized IMO. If you put in a
shower put in a shower sump pump. A bilge should be bone dry.

Joe

Joe wrote:
On Jun 6, 6:46 am, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:25:44 -0000, wrote:
Hello,
I'm interested in living aboard a boat, cheaply, while retaining a few
of the mod cons.
In my reckless youth I spent a year living aboard a very sketchy 1974
(IIRC) Hunter 25, generally in extreme poverty. Living on a boat was
nice; living on a ramshackle, falling-apart, waterborne-tent of a boat
which I couldn't afford to maintain less so. (I've read the
'Liveaboard Simulator' frequently posted here, and it certainly
brought back memories, though god knows at the time I was in no
position to blow $100 at West Marine on a moment's notice.) I'd like
to get another boat, one on which I can maintain a few basic
amenities. I'm interested in feedback as to whether this is at all
practical and what it might cost.
I see a number of 27-33-foot boats from twenty or thirty years ago, in
decent shape, for very reasonable prices. However, there are a few
things which I'd really appreciate as a full-time liveaboard which
they lack:
1. A shower. I don't have a trust fund, and I'll need to be able to
hold down a job to pay dockage; most workplaces tend to frown on
employees who bathe only weekly. Of course showers are probably
available at a marina, but being able to shower privately in one's own
boat makes a huge difference.
Due space you will probably not find too many 27-33 foot boats with a
shower.

2. Air-conditioning, only while hooked up to shore power. (It seems to
matter much less under way or even at anchor.) Call me spoiled, but I
don't want to spend my free time exclusively in weeks of 100+-degree
heat and still air -- I've been there, done that, and paid my dues.
This is an easy one. Buy a window air con. Sit it on the deck and make
some sort of duct to blow cold air down the hatch. At least a third of
the cruising boats in the marina I keep my boat in are set up that
way-- inlcuding my own boat.

I don't need much else in terms of amenities -- I'd be happy if I
could run lights and a VHF off the 12V, and a laptop at the marina,
and I don't mind pumping my own water in the galley
No reason not to have pressure water. the pumps are cheap enough.

Few to none of the boats in the size range I'm looking for seem to
have these features, so I'm mostly wondering if anyone here has added
them to a production boat, what it cost, and how difficult it was. As
I'll be living aboard alone, with essentially no guests, I'd happily
sacrifice a salon berth or quarter berth toward these ends. Also,
while I'd like a boat I can confidently take on a week's cruise (in
the Great Lakes) if I'm so inclined, realistically I'll probably be
dock-bound aside from day-sails, so serious cruising gear is not a big
factor.
Sure, you can do anything. If the head is big enough build a shower
curtain rail and let the water drain into th bilge is one way. The
curtain keeps the toilet paper dry and usually the bilge is full of
skuz so the wash water won't make any difference in the smell.



Thanks in advance for any anecdotes or advice.
--Eli
Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Living in a pool of gray water is not civilized IMO. If you put in a
shower put in a shower sump pump. A bilge should be bone dry.

Why buy a boat with none of those things and go through all sorts of
contortions to put them in? I bought a 1979 Hunter 33' that had all of
those things except the A/C for $6500. It even had a shower with
dedicated sump. Everything working, well except the motor, but with a
few thousand more that was remedied.

Stephen

On Jun 6, 9:48 am, Stephen Trapani wrote:
Joe wrote:
On Jun 6, 6:46 am, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:25:44 -0000, wrote:
Hello,
I'm interested in living aboard a boat, cheaply, while retaining a few
of the mod cons.
In my reckless youth I spent a year living aboard a very sketchy 1974
(IIRC) Hunter 25, generally in extreme poverty. Living on a boat was
nice; living on a ramshackle, falling-apart, waterborne-tent of a boat
which I couldn't afford to maintain less so. (I've read the
'Liveaboard Simulator' frequently posted here, and it certainly
brought back memories, though god knows at the time I was in no
position to blow $100 at West Marine on a moment's notice.) I'd like
to get another boat, one on which I can maintain a few basic
amenities. I'm interested in feedback as to whether this is at all
practical and what it might cost.
I see a number of 27-33-foot boats from twenty or thirty years ago, in
decent shape, for very reasonable prices. However, there are a few
things which I'd really appreciate as a full-time liveaboard which
they lack:
1. A shower. I don't have a trust fund, and I'll need to be able to
hold down a job to pay dockage; most workplaces tend to frown on
employees who bathe only weekly. Of course showers are probably
available at a marina, but being able to shower privately in one's own
boat makes a huge difference.
Due space you will probably not find too many 27-33 foot boats with a
shower.

2. Air-conditioning, only while hooked up to shore power. (It seems to
matter much less under way or even at anchor.) Call me spoiled, but I
don't want to spend my free time exclusively in weeks of 100+-degree
heat and still air -- I've been there, done that, and paid my dues.
This is an easy one. Buy a window air con. Sit it on the deck and make
some sort of duct to blow cold air down the hatch. At least a third of
the cruising boats in the marina I keep my boat in are set up that
way-- inlcuding my own boat.

I don't need much else in terms of amenities -- I'd be happy if I
could run lights and a VHF off the 12V, and a laptop at the marina,
and I don't mind pumping my own water in the galley
No reason not to have pressure water. the pumps are cheap enough.

Few to none of the boats in the size range I'm looking for seem to
have these features, so I'm mostly wondering if anyone here has added
them to a production boat, what it cost, and how difficult it was. As
I'll be living aboard alone, with essentially no guests, I'd happily
sacrifice a salon berth or quarter berth toward these ends. Also,
while I'd like a boat I can confidently take on a week's cruise (in
the Great Lakes) if I'm so inclined, realistically I'll probably be
dock-bound aside from day-sails, so serious cruising gear is not a big
factor.
Sure, you can do anything. If the head is big enough build a shower
curtain rail and let the water drain into th bilge is one way. The
curtain keeps the toilet paper dry and usually the bilge is full of
skuz so the wash water won't make any difference in the smell.

Thanks in advance for any anecdotes or advice.
--Eli
Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Living in a pool of gray water is not civilized IMO. If you put in a
shower put in a shower sump pump. A bilge should be bone dry.

Why buy a boat with none of those things and go through all sorts of
contortions to put them in? I bought a 1979 Hunter 33' that had all of
those things except the A/C for $6500. It even had a shower with
dedicated sump. Everything working, well except the motor, but with a
few thousand more that was remedied.

Stephen- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree. You need to go 32 ft or larger to get a decent liveaboard,
unless your into a camping type of lifestyle.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 6, 9:48 am, Stephen Trapani wrote:
Joe wrote:
On Jun 6, 6:46 am, Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:25:44 -0000, wrote:
Hello,
I'm interested in living aboard a boat, cheaply, while retaining a
few
of the mod cons.
In my reckless youth I spent a year living aboard a very sketchy 1974
(IIRC) Hunter 25, generally in extreme poverty. Living on a boat was
nice; living on a ramshackle, falling-apart, waterborne-tent of a
boat
which I couldn't afford to maintain less so. (I've read the
'Liveaboard Simulator' frequently posted here, and it certainly
brought back memories, though god knows at the time I was in no
position to blow $100 at West Marine on a moment's notice.) I'd like
to get another boat, one on which I can maintain a few basic
amenities. I'm interested in feedback as to whether this is at all
practical and what it might cost.
I see a number of 27-33-foot boats from twenty or thirty years ago,
in
decent shape, for very reasonable prices. However, there are a few
things which I'd really appreciate as a full-time liveaboard which
they lack:
1. A shower. I don't have a trust fund, and I'll need to be able to
hold down a job to pay dockage; most workplaces tend to frown on
employees who bathe only weekly. Of course showers are probably
available at a marina, but being able to shower privately in one's
own
boat makes a huge difference.
Due space you will probably not find too many 27-33 foot boats with a
shower.

2. Air-conditioning, only while hooked up to shore power. (It seems
to
matter much less under way or even at anchor.) Call me spoiled, but I
don't want to spend my free time exclusively in weeks of 100+-degree
heat and still air -- I've been there, done that, and paid my dues.
This is an easy one. Buy a window air con. Sit it on the deck and make
some sort of duct to blow cold air down the hatch. At least a third of
the cruising boats in the marina I keep my boat in are set up that
way-- inlcuding my own boat.

I don't need much else in terms of amenities -- I'd be happy if I
could run lights and a VHF off the 12V, and a laptop at the marina,
and I don't mind pumping my own water in the galley
No reason not to have pressure water. the pumps are cheap enough.

Few to none of the boats in the size range I'm looking for seem to
have these features, so I'm mostly wondering if anyone here has added
them to a production boat, what it cost, and how difficult it was. As
I'll be living aboard alone, with essentially no guests, I'd happily
sacrifice a salon berth or quarter berth toward these ends. Also,
while I'd like a boat I can confidently take on a week's cruise (in
the Great Lakes) if I'm so inclined, realistically I'll probably be
dock-bound aside from day-sails, so serious cruising gear is not a
big
factor.
Sure, you can do anything. If the head is big enough build a shower
curtain rail and let the water drain into th bilge is one way. The
curtain keeps the toilet paper dry and usually the bilge is full of
skuz so the wash water won't make any difference in the smell.

Thanks in advance for any anecdotes or advice.
--Eli
Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com-Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Living in a pool of gray water is not civilized IMO. If you put in a
shower put in a shower sump pump. A bilge should be bone dry.

Why buy a boat with none of those things and go through all sorts of
contortions to put them in? I bought a 1979 Hunter 33' that had all of
those things except the A/C for $6500. It even had a shower with
dedicated sump. Everything working, well except the motor, but with a
few thousand more that was remedied.

Stephen- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree. You need to go 32 ft or larger to get a decent liveaboard,
unless your into a camping type of lifestyle.

Joe



I agree as well.. .probably need a bit bigger. I have a Sabre 30, which is
fairly roomy. It's got a shower/sump, but it's still feels like camping if
I'm on it at the dock for more than a week.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in
:

I agree as well.. .probably need a bit bigger. I have a Sabre 30,
which is fairly roomy. It's got a shower/sump, but it's still feels
like camping if I'm on it at the dock for more than a week.



I believe there's a chart on that. It's something like:

Under 23'---Tent
24 to 27'---Tent Trailer
27 to 32'---One axel travel trailer
33 to 39'---Small Class C motorhome - Tandem axel travel trailer
40 to 45'---Medium Class A motorhome - 5th Wheel travel trailer
45 to 50'---Diesel pusher Motorhome - 5th Wheel with expando room
Above 50'---Greyhound-sized diesel motorhome like country stars tour in.

That's about right....Just for comparison, of course. You can't take the
boat to Dollywood or Branson, MO or just stop any old place to look at
teh sights. The sights at sea are always the same....well, unless
there's serious trouble...(c;

Larry
--
There were 30' waves off Charleston as the tropical depression passed.
CG got the boaters off the big yacht and took them to Bermuda...without
the boat, this week. See? Those were different sights than normal at
sea.

On Jun 6, 3:39 pm, Larry wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote :

I agree as well.. .probably need a bit bigger. I have a Sabre 30,
which is fairly roomy. It's got a shower/sump, but it's still feels
like camping if I'm on it at the dock for more than a week.

I believe there's a chart on that. It's something like:

Under 23'---Tent
24 to 27'---Tent Trailer
27 to 32'---One axel travel trailer
33 to 39'---Small Class C motorhome - Tandem axel travel trailer
40 to 45'---Medium Class A motorhome - 5th Wheel travel trailer
45 to 50'---Diesel pusher Motorhome - 5th Wheel with expando room
Above 50'---Greyhound-sized diesel motorhome like country stars tour in.

You are really up-beat when it comes to living on a boat aren't you?
I wonder if you ever take into account the space on deck as living
space. My cousin lived on a 44' sloop and he had more space than I do
in a mid sized one bedroom apartment, especially when considering the
cockpit and deck areas. This doesn't include the fact that he has the
Pacific Ocean for a back yard. Now he lives on a 55' motor Trawler
but I haven't been inside yet. I think it depends on your viewpoint.
In a house the open spaces of a large room are not really used except
to provide a larger view in the room, so you don't feel so cramped.
On a boat just go outside on the deck. More open space than you can
ever need. I always felt more comfortable on the well equiped boats I
have been on than in a small house or apartment. You can't really
compare the two when it comes to costs. My 1 bedroom apartment in
Orange County cost almost $300k and has no yard or balcony. Nice area
and close to everything but it is not cheap. This is not considered
top of the line by any stretch as it is still a one bedroom
apartment. A well equiped boat can be had for 1/3 of that and can
have more space than my apartment not to mention the ability to sail
and change the view.

I realize you area trying to help but there are a lot of good things
about living aboard that are unique to that lifestyle you leave out.
Next time I move it will be onto a boat. That's a few years off still
but it will be the best choice for me. There is no way I can afford a
house in the area I live in. In Orange county the median cost of a
house is $600,000 and most at that price are not anything you want to
live in. I would rather have a boat and live at the marina.

Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
ups.com...
You are really up-beat when it comes to living on a boat aren't you?
I wonder if you ever take into account the space on deck as living
space. My cousin lived on a 44' sloop and he had more space than I do
in a mid sized one bedroom apartment, especially when considering the
cockpit and deck areas. This doesn't include the fact that he has the
Pacific Ocean for a back yard. Now he lives on a 55' motor Trawler
but I haven't been inside yet. I think it depends on your viewpoint.
In a house the open spaces of a large room are not really used except
to provide a larger view in the room, so you don't feel so cramped.
On a boat just go outside on the deck. More open space than you can
ever need. I always felt more comfortable on the well equiped boats I
have been on than in a small house or apartment. You can't really
compare the two when it comes to costs. My 1 bedroom apartment in
Orange County cost almost $300k and has no yard or balcony. Nice area
and close to everything but it is not cheap. This is not considered
top of the line by any stretch as it is still a one bedroom
apartment. A well equiped boat can be had for 1/3 of that and can
have more space than my apartment not to mention the ability to sail
and change the view.

I realize you area trying to help but there are a lot of good things
about living aboard that are unique to that lifestyle you leave out.
Next time I move it will be onto a boat. That's a few years off still
but it will be the best choice for me. There is no way I can afford a
house in the area I live in. In Orange county the median cost of a
house is $600,000 and most at that price are not anything you want to
live in. I would rather have a boat and live at the marina.

Bill


Ya, Larry always leaves out some of the most important parts of the
"Liveaboard Simulator." Stuff like, "Okay, now sail your apartment to a nice
anchorage and have sundowners." :-)

We accept the limitations of a boat because of the benefits we derive from
it.

Bill wrote in
ups.com:

You are really up-beat when it comes to living on a boat aren't you?
I wonder if you ever take into account the space on deck as living
space.

No, I don't think that would be fair, considering the motorhome is parked
on a pad with its nice awning out in a 3,800 acre national park full of
tree-covered mountains, massive waterfalls, flora and fauna....or parked
in a WalMart parking lot for the night, like they do.

Let's compare the two when it's pouring down rain, lightning popping
about both of them. Now we're discussing the interior appurtances and
accomodations, what human amenities they offer. I think the chart is
very accurate...ignoring, of course, the 18' rolling waves....(c;

Lighten up. You're yacht is just a floating RV in an overpriced campsite
with few facilities. The waterfront property owners all over the SC
Lowcountry call them "floating trailer parks", especially when some
developer is trying to build one in front of their view... They don't
find them a bit beautiful.

Some friends of mine, who used to own a Hatteras 56, "Ivy B", have this
massive 54' diesel land yacht. It cost about the same as the Hatteras.
The dock fees, at home, are zero. They liked it so much, after the trip
to Yellowstone last summer, they're having a new land yacht custom built
for an incredible sum. It's supposed to be ready, soon....sort of like
waiting for your new Azimut to be delivered.

I think it has the same engines....(c;

Larry
--
http://www.spp.gov/
The end of the USA and its Constitution....RIP

Stephen Trapani wrote in news:3Pz9i.10$Sy4.8
@newsfe04.lga:

Everything working, well except the motor, but with a
few thousand more that was remedied.


Eli! Did you read this carefully? BOAT is an achronym....B.O.A.T.
Bring
Out
Another
Thousand
BOAT....

Notice how easily "a few thousand" rolled right off Stephen's tongue,
hardly making him cringe at all, any more....(c;

Larry
--
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?