Skip Gundlach writes:

While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.

You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...search_results.
jsp?sm=3&cit=true&slim=quick&ybw=null&is=&type=%28 Power%29&
man=&hmid=0&ftid=0&enid=0&fromLength=25&toLength=4 0&luom=126&
fromYear=&toYear=&fromPrice=&toPrice=11000&currenc yid=100&city=
&pbsint=&ps=100

is a URL for the search you want (you'll likely have to cut
and paste the lines unless it wraps when you click on it, to
get the full address). When you have narrowed down your
parameters, you can reduce the number of boats presented,
but for the moment, at least, there's 377 power boats from
25 to 40 feet at under 11,000 USD listed.

This website I have not seen before. I like it that I can put in
things I wish, such as length, price, and other information. But
there are things on it which I do not know, like on the section
where it asks for type of boat. What means terms like "cockpit"
or "sedan"? Is it not the place on top of the boat that you stand
when you steer that is the cockpit? And a sedan has 4 doors, on
a car, but on a boat?

When you dump the new boats with no prices, that number reduces.
When you dump the parts of the world you're unwilling to explore,
it reduces further. When you go from 'all power' to the various
(it allows you to select more than one category of power boat)
which are actually important to you, it further reduces. However,
there will still be lots to consider.

This actually shows me what a lot of these boats looks like, and
this is what I needed. I am appreciative of this from you. But,
it also causes problems for me, in that now I have more things to
know, that I do not know. Where do I go to educate myself about
these terms and things I do not know?

Once you've had a look at some of them, go back to the 'advanced
search' button (well, shaded area at the left of the page) and
refine this search.

I did try to do advanced search, and entering a low of $1.00, and
high of $11,000.00, with certain regions (east US coast) I find
some 231 boats with which I can start to search. Many of these
boats are much more than I expected to find, and some are beautiful!

I don't think you'll get any other than a very project boat in
your budget, but at least it's a place to start.

I did look at many of these boats, and there are plenty of ones
there that I can take a more serious look at them. There are a
few that are not ready to be in water, needing much repair. But
in all, I am very appreciative of your help by giving me a link!

Thank you!

FWIW, you can see some of the recent threads about my searching;
whether you agree with my methods, I can tell you that it will
produce lots of boats to consider...

I have read your strings, and your methods are very complex, but
I believe you will find what boat suits you, and one that you
want. If what you do works for you, then you go with it. You
obviously know more than I, and I salute you, for you are knowing
what you have to do to get what it is that you want.

Thank you for your very kind help. As another writer said, I am
so very sorry that this post is not shorter, as I did not have
time to make it less long.

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

On 18 Nov 2003 13:28:04 -0000, Ante Topic Mimara
] wrote (with possible editing):

Skip Gundlach writes:

While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.

You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.

The real problem is this: yachting is not as simple as buying a car.
Mistakes are usually costly, they can be and often are fatal. The
boat you want to buy is quite large for a beginner and the price you
want to pay is quite low which indicates you will almost certainly end
up with a lot of problems. If you had a bit more experience, it would
be easier to guide you, but then, you wouldn't need advice.

Most folks don't want to lead you towards what they believe will be
real problems. If you want the cold hard truth: you are WAY out of
your element. You should, instead, pursue one of these paths:

1. If you want a boat that large, you will have to pay
considerably more. In addition, you will need to hire a skipper or
someone to teach you how to handle a craft that size - you absolutely
cannot learn that in books. Also, I think you don't realize how
expensive marine repairs can be. In addition, without the benefit of
a survey, there could well be things wrong which endanger your life,
but you won't know until it's too late.

2. Start with something much smaller - I'd suggest low 20's
at the largest and learn how to handle it. You'll still need
instruction, but it would be MUCH easier to begin there. This also
gives you a chance to be sure this is something you and your wife will
enjoy.

I'm not a captain, but I was raised on the water and have owned and
crewed on both power and sail up to 40'. I consider myself a novice,
a journeyman sailer maybe, but I think I know my limitations. I'm
afraid you might easily learn yours the "hard" way and that is VERY
easy to do at sea.

Please don't get angry. I would have sent this to you privately if
your email were posted...
--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

Larry,
I concur with you that his expectatins (hopes?) are unrealistic, but
think you may have emphasized a couple of points a little too harshly.

Mistakes are usually costly, they can be and often are fatal.

Mistakes are all too often VERY costly and while they sometimes are
fatal, they usually are not. Not to say that this possibility isn't
important, (after all who wants to die or kill family mambers through
making mistakes?), but to be more realistic, shouldn't you have
substituted the word "sometimes" for "often"?

1. If you want a boat that large, ... you will need to hire a skipper or
someone to teach you how to handle a craft that size - you absolutely
cannot learn that in books.

You're right that stepping directly from dry land into a 40 footer is
not an easy task, frought with personal and property danger, but since
many have done it to say "you absolutely cannot" is a bit of an
exageration.

Your advice to start with something smaller is spot on. Do this in
moderate steps (say 18'-25' then 30'-32' then 40' with at least a year
of very heavy use at each stage) and it can be done safely and with a
great deal of enjoyment. Do it in one giant step, and you endanger
yourself and others, both financially and personally.

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Larry,
I concur with you that his expectatins (hopes?) are unrealistic, but
think you may have emphasized a couple of points a little too harshly.

Mistakes are usually costly, they can be and often are fatal.

Mistakes are all too often VERY costly and while they sometimes are
fatal, they usually are not. Not to say that this possibility isn't
important, (after all who wants to die or kill family mambers through
making mistakes?), but to be more realistic, shouldn't you have
substituted the word "sometimes" for "often"?

1. If you want a boat that large, ... you will need to hire a skipper or
someone to teach you how to handle a craft that size - you absolutely
cannot learn that in books.

You're right that stepping directly from dry land into a 40 footer is
not an easy task, frought with personal and property danger, but since
many have done it to say "you absolutely cannot" is a bit of an
exageration.

Your advice to start with something smaller is spot on. Do this in
moderate steps (say 18'-25' then 30'-32' then 40' with at least a year
of very heavy use at each stage) and it can be done safely and with a
great deal of enjoyment. Do it in one giant step, and you endanger
yourself and others, both financially and personally.

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

On 18 Nov 2003 13:28:04 -0000, Ante Topic Mimara
] wrote (with possible editing):

Skip Gundlach writes:

While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.

You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.

The real problem is this: yachting is not as simple as buying a car.
Mistakes are usually costly, they can be and often are fatal. The
boat you want to buy is quite large for a beginner and the price you
want to pay is quite low which indicates you will almost certainly end
up with a lot of problems. If you had a bit more experience, it would
be easier to guide you, but then, you wouldn't need advice.

Most folks don't want to lead you towards what they believe will be
real problems. If you want the cold hard truth: you are WAY out of
your element. You should, instead, pursue one of these paths:

1. If you want a boat that large, you will have to pay
considerably more. In addition, you will need to hire a skipper or
someone to teach you how to handle a craft that size - you absolutely
cannot learn that in books. Also, I think you don't realize how
expensive marine repairs can be. In addition, without the benefit of
a survey, there could well be things wrong which endanger your life,
but you won't know until it's too late.

2. Start with something much smaller - I'd suggest low 20's
at the largest and learn how to handle it. You'll still need
instruction, but it would be MUCH easier to begin there. This also
gives you a chance to be sure this is something you and your wife will
enjoy.

I'm not a captain, but I was raised on the water and have owned and
crewed on both power and sail up to 40'. I consider myself a novice,
a journeyman sailer maybe, but I think I know my limitations. I'm
afraid you might easily learn yours the "hard" way and that is VERY
easy to do at sea.

Please don't get angry. I would have sent this to you privately if
your email were posted...
--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

Ante Topic Mimara wrote:

Skip Gundlach writes:


While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.



You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.


I see we all got off on the wrong foot. Let's try again.....

From what I recall in the thread, you and your (wife?) are completely
new to boating, are looking a powerboat with an aft cabin for under
$11k, are on some narrow river you want to cruise up and down, and may
sometimes go on the ocean. That's more than we knew at first, but still
not enough to give you useful information.

If you tell us more of what, where and who you are, we can help you
better. For instance, which river (we may know it) and how far up and
down it you want to go, what you want to do at first (stop at marinas,
cruise in little side creeks, just be on the water....) how often you'll
be staying onboard overnight, and anything else you feel comfortable
saying about your dream. The more we know, the better job we can do.

You see, we all probably have had friends that have been in your
position, that got a boat and immediately "ran" before they knew how to
walk. Most times, the mishaps were merely amusing afterwards; some were
potentially dangerous.

A friend of ours went out for his first sail with us and within 3 months
(no more experience), got a $6k boat of dubious condition (he overpaid)
and immediately went south towards the islands. Luckily, he had enough
minor mishaps early on that he learned to slow down and learn what he
was doing. He sure had a lot of funny "experience learned" stories when
he flew back from Florida 6 months later.... (We could do the same trip
in 3 weeks.)

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Jere Lull wrote:

Ante Topic Mimara wrote:

Skip Gundlach writes:

While it's apparent that you've got a very long learning
curve ahead of you (it seems you haven't any background
in boating so don't know what to specify), the other
responders haven't made your life simple.


You are correct when you believe I have no background
in boats, for I have never even stepped on one, except
for small open ones like 10-12 foot long boats, like
rowboats and such. Why it is so difficult to get clear
answers from people is not something which I understand!
I would have believed everyone would be stepping all over
themself to show me things to research, but not a lot of
this has this happened. I have read from several, of things
which I should go and read, but everyone uses this strange
new terminology and this jargon. Is there a good online
dictionary of yacht-language? If it is so, I should go and
use it, so that I can know these same terms.

I see we all got off on the wrong foot. Let's try again.....

Now there is something wrong with my foot? I see you are making
a joke with me! LOL!

From what I recall in the thread, you and your (wife?) are
completely new to boating, are looking a powerboat with an
aft cabin for under $11k, are on some narrow river you want
to cruise up and down, and may sometimes go on the ocean.

This is something like what I was looking for. Aft Cabin is not
critical to my wants, but could be something I would like, as I
have seen one on the internet that I liked.

That's more than we knew at first, but still not enough to
give you useful information.

What more information could you need? I am looking for a boat
in feet between 25 and 40, that can go in a river (meaning it
must not sit too deep in water) yet can follow a river all the
hundred of miles or so to the ocean. I do not believe I need
two engines, as that means one could go bad, and would be twice
trouble. Diesel, or gas, or alcohol fuel is unimportant, do you
agree?

If you tell us more of what, where and who you are, we can
help you better. For instance, which river (we may know it)
and how far up and down it you want to go, what you want to
do at first (stop at marinas, cruise in little side creeks,
just be on the water....) how often you'll be staying onboard
overnight, and anything else you feel comfortable saying about
your dream. The more we know, the better job we can do.

The river is not important. You may pick any river from Miami
to Maine, and all are the same, as far as I am thinking. I
am afraid of the hackers to know who I am, so I do not think
I will like telling people who I am. Who am I is important in
what way to me knowing what types of boat should I look at?

I know I cannot go past a certain point up the river, not that I
want to go up the river (a funny joke!) and I know that at the
other end is a very large ocean city with lots of boats.

I am thinking that on nice weekends, I may want to take a boat
down the river a hundred or more miles to where the ocean is,
so that we can eat a dinner in the town by the ocean. Also, we
will stay on this boat on other weekends, but not on every
weekend there is. In the springtimes, we may want to go out on
to the coast, and go to other cities on the ocean for two or
more weeks. By looking at maps, I see many big cities very near
by to the end of the river I live near, and all from Jacksonville
Florida to Philadelphia Pennsylvania are within the reach of
what I am thinking as a major springtime trip of two or three
weeks time. Are there not places along the coastline where I
could stop the boat for food and fuel and other things such
as these?

I am also thinking that this trip kind is in years, two or more
away from me. I know that I will have up to one years that I
will have to clean and tidy up boat, and fix any things that
need to be done, and another years and a few month plus that
I will have to get used to being on the boat up and down the
river, and maybe going to the ocean and back in a weekend.

As for staying on the boat for over nights, I have a house and
this is where we sleep when normal, but with a boat, we will
stay on the boat on some nice weekends, when it is not cold
or too hot. In the number of weekends in one year, we would
probably want to stay on the boat perhaps one or two weekends
for every month of a whole year. If it is hot, do boats have
the conditioner of air? This is another thing I do not know,
but I have seen where some boats have hook up to power on shore,
so would that be how the conditioner of air would have power?

Is this the right things I need to think about how I will learn
to use the boat, and what I should do with it?

You see, we all probably have had friends that have been in
your position, that got a boat and immediately "ran" before
they knew how to walk. Most times, the mishaps were merely
amusing afterwards; some were potentially dangerous.

Perhaps I should not go to boating as a hobby then. It seems
like everyone is telling me I will die in a shipwreck.

A friend of ours went out for his first sail with us and
within 3 months (no more experience), got a $6k boat of dubious
condition (he overpaid) and immediately went south towards the
islands. Luckily, he had enough minor mishaps early on that he
learned to slow down and learn what he was doing. He sure had
a lot of funny "experience learned" stories when he flew back
from Florida 6 months later.... (We could do the same trip
in 3 weeks.)

I thank you for writing your message to me. Maybe I should now
think about not buying a boat if it is unsafe and dangerous.

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Have you considered looking into a charter club?

A good charter club with a lot of different boats will allow you
to learn boating skills from more experienced members and
instructors, and will allow you to try out different types of
boats and see what *really* fits your needs. (Or just as
importantly, find out what doesn't meet your needs!)

My husband and I looked at (and almost bought) a couple of boats,
but financial issues forced us to wait. While waiting we joined a
charter club so we could be on the water. It wasn't the same as
owning our own boat, but we learned a *lot* about boating from
people we would never have met otherwise. We also learned that
the boats we had been interested in would not have met our needs.
We finally did buy a boat. It's a bit more of a "project" than we
had hoped, but if we can survive the refit we know she will be
perfect for us.

We are sailors and it sounds like you are interested in power
boats, but there are clubs out there that should have what you
are looking for.

Best of luck

Cindy

Cindy Ballreich wrote:

Have you considered looking into a charter club?

This is an excellent suggestion! I shall immediately
begin looking for such a thing, with the hopes that I
may join with it!

A good charter club with a lot of different boats
will allow you to learn boating skills from more
experienced members and instructors, and will allow
you to try out different types of boats and see what
*really* fits your needs. (Or just as importantly,
find out what doesn't meet your needs!)

Yes! I would rather find out that someone else's boat
was not what I wanted, than what I had was not what my
boat was that I wanted. This makes sense perfectly to me.

My husband and I looked at (and almost bought) a
couple of boats, but financial issues forced us to
wait. While waiting we joined a charter club so we
could be on the water. It wasn't the same as owning
our own boat, but we learned a *lot* about boating
from people we would never have met otherwise. We also
learned that the boats we had been interested in would
not have met our needs. We finally did buy a boat. It's
a bit more of a "project" than we had hoped, but if
we can survive the refit we know she will be perfect
for us.

This has come from beginning as things for me to learn,
and what I have learned is not now what I thought I had
to learn. I thank you.

We are sailors and it sounds like you are interested
in power boats, but there are clubs out there that
should have what you are looking for.

Oh I hope so!

Best of luck

And to you dear lady!

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Cindy Ballreich wrote:

Have you considered looking into a charter club?

This is an excellent suggestion! I shall immediately
begin looking for such a thing, with the hopes that I
may join with it!

A good charter club with a lot of different boats
will allow you to learn boating skills from more
experienced members and instructors, and will allow
you to try out different types of boats and see what
*really* fits your needs. (Or just as importantly,
find out what doesn't meet your needs!)

Yes! I would rather find out that someone else's boat
was not what I wanted, than what I had was not what my
boat was that I wanted. This makes sense perfectly to me.

My husband and I looked at (and almost bought) a
couple of boats, but financial issues forced us to
wait. While waiting we joined a charter club so we
could be on the water. It wasn't the same as owning
our own boat, but we learned a *lot* about boating
from people we would never have met otherwise. We also
learned that the boats we had been interested in would
not have met our needs. We finally did buy a boat. It's
a bit more of a "project" than we had hoped, but if
we can survive the refit we know she will be perfect
for us.

This has come from beginning as things for me to learn,
and what I have learned is not now what I thought I had
to learn. I thank you.

We are sailors and it sounds like you are interested
in power boats, but there are clubs out there that
should have what you are looking for.

Oh I hope so!

Best of luck

And to you dear lady!

---
-
Topic-Mimara
Unique in the World!
---


-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.