Chuck Gould wrote in
ups.com:

Under you standard, almost nobody old enough to be retired would be
allowed to go boating without a babysitter?


I sail offshore on an Amel 41 ketch. Cap'n Geoffrey is around 70. It's
his boat. I must admit we HAVE sailed offshore of Florida, just the two
of us, between Ft Lauderdale and Ponce Inlet, S of Daytona Beach.
Weather was perfect or we wouldn't have gone.

Neither one of us are "disabled" and either one of us can sail her safely
for a day, maybe two. But, neither one of us will go offshore over 2 in
our condition, which isn't really that bad, but we DO GET OVERTIRED IN 2
DAYS....too tired for safe sailing in a squall condition, which happens
often, here.

Our "crew" is SIX sailors, sometimes EIGHT, for passages Charleston to
FL, for example. Everyone gets SLEEP, noone gets DEAD. All hands are
available, including ours, in bad situations. The other four are late
20's to mid 40's, experienced sailors, physically fit. And we STILL have
been beaten up to exhaustion a few times offshore of Georgia.

I cannot imagine how an 80-year-old goat and his 78-year-old wife can be
called "fit" to sail a 38' boat under those circumstances...I just can't!

Larry
--

....
What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60
years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going
out of the harbor, out of sight of land. ...
Larry


Larry, I'm not sure if you really believe this or are just trying to
stir up the conversation. In either case, it is complete nonsense.
I've met several 70 year olds who have are in great mental and
physical condition and who routinely sail their boats out of New
Zealand or Australia to the Pacific islands. Evidence suggests that
they have a handle on what it takes. Ability is ability. You either
have it or you don't. There may be a statistical correspondence with
age and ability, but there is no reason to believe that any particular
person will conform to it. Just for instance, I met a gentleman in
New Caledonia in his early 70's who was free diving to 60 feet with
fantastic bottom time. We met again on Norfolk Island and raced each
other on a hike... I think it was a tie, but he might argue. He can
still do hand stands. He sails his boat from Opua, New Zealand to New
Cal every year and is totally competent.

-- Tom.

" wrote in
ups.com:

Larry, I'm not sure if you really believe this or are just trying to
stir up the conversation. In either case, it is complete nonsense.
I've met several 70 year olds who have are in great mental and
physical condition and who routinely sail their boats out of New
Zealand or Australia to the Pacific islands. Evidence suggests that
they have a handle on what it takes. Ability is ability. You either
have it or you don't.

Tom, I'm not trying to stir up trouble or a flamewar. I'm POSITIVE
sailors in your area of the world are MUCH more fit than the rich,
potbellied Americans walking down our docks in Charleston, SC. Those men
have been to sea for years, are hardened by hard work. OUR sailors are
bankers, lawyers, doctors, real estate tycoons who's hardest work is
standing in one place doing what they do in their tassled loafers under
an expensive Italian suit...in an air conditioned room...and working out
at the fitness center riding a bike and lifting small weights. Lifting
their glass at the yacht club or reaching in for their credit card raises
their heart rates.

They are playing a role game...."Captain". In America, it takes nothing
but MONEY, really. Some even mow their own lawns!....on riding lawn
mowers, of course! Those are the individuals you find offshore in
trouble, here.

Did anyone see what this nice old guy does for a living, besides the SS
checks and stock options, in this latest rescue? Does he fit my dock
description?



Larry
--
This spammer called my cellphone:
First American Payment
10101 E Arapaho Rd
Richardson, TX 75081
972-301-3766
They were nasty when I politely said I wasn't interested....(c;

wrote:
...
What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60
years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going
out of the harbor, out of sight of land. ...
Larry


Larry, I'm not sure if you really believe this or are just trying to
stir up the conversation. In either case, it is complete nonsense.
I've met several 70 year olds who have are in great mental and
physical condition and who routinely sail their boats out of New
Zealand or Australia to the Pacific islands. Evidence suggests that
they have a handle on what it takes. Ability is ability. You either
have it or you don't. There may be a statistical correspondence with
age and ability, but there is no reason to believe that any particular
person will conform to it. Just for instance, I met a gentleman in
New Caledonia in his early 70's who was free diving to 60 feet with
fantastic bottom time. We met again on Norfolk Island and raced each
other on a hike... I think it was a tie, but he might argue. He can
still do hand stands. He sails his boat from Opua, New Zealand to New
Cal every year and is totally competent.

-- Tom.


I don't recall just now, but how old was Sir Francis Chichester when he
circled the world in Gypsy Moth?

--Alan Gomes

On May 8, 1:07 pm, Larry wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote roups.com:

One of the saltiest and most capable boaters I ever knew was cruising
his 38-footer until a week before he died. In fact, we were with him
when he started having chest pains one evening at the Silverdale town
dock. We took him to a hospital to get checked out. That was the
beginning of the end for him, he didn't survive the angioplasty
operation the following week. He was 83 or 84, and his wife a couple
of years younger.

What a bunch of nonsense. NOONE you'll ever meet on the dock over 60
years old should be allowed to be the primary muscle on any boat going
out of the harbor, out of sight of land. I don't give a damn how many
years him and his wife got away with it. An 80+ year old man CANNOT do
the physical work of a much younger man (or woman), required to handle
such emergencies in such conditions. Hell, the 20-somethings are
overwhelmed by a lot of it.

Doesn't wash, no matter how many years they got away with it.

Larry
--

Larry,

What kind of ignorant hogwash is this? I have never met a sailor over
60 whom I would not trust to be a good and reliable skipper. It's
true that as we age our physical abilities diminish. However, the
dangers encountered in sailing are more related to abilities of
judgement rather than abilities of muscle. The fact is, younger
sailors are just as liable to make the same errors in judgement as
older sailors. The problem encountered by the sailors in question
had nothing to do with their age and everything to do with their
judgement. And, I'd be willing to bet they could pass a "licensing
test". After all, we have licensing requirements for automobiles and
drivers of all ages still make stupid errors of judgement.

Peter
s/v Now or Never!

Larry wrote:

NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE
SEAMEN!

almost no one. this guy might cut it

http://www.runnersweb.com/running/rw...40927_TWM.html

They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This
statement from the webpage says it all:

"a couple in their 70's and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200
miles out to sea."

IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO
YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!!

Wait something is missing from the story. The first paragraph says 6
people were peulled from the boat. They only said that two were in
thier 70's and one was over 40. Maybe they did have some young people
on board. Maybe the other 3 were were regular sailors. The story
doesn't say anything about who owned the boat or that they wer rich.
maybe they went out for a charter and were too stupid to realize it
wasn't a good idea and the crew figured they would tough it out.

On Tue, 08 May 2007 12:44:49 +0000, Larry wrote:

Vic Smith wrote in
:

Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted?


It's been going on for days and is very well reported, here in
Charleston. Trucks are being warned to stay off the high bridges. Winds
were 50 mph here, yesterday and about the same, today.

A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East
Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a
local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab
angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky
is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us.

They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This
statement from the webpage says it all:

"a couple in their 70’s and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200
miles out to sea."

IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO
YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!!

As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say
LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the
course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no
matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then,
we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT
YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and
boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are
too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that
worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for.

NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE
SEAMEN!

Let the wrinklies enjoy themselves before they get turned into soylent
green.

Sir Robin Knox-Johnston - just finished the Velux ROUND THE WOLD SOLO
Born 17th March 1939, in Putney, London. The eldest of 4 brothers.
School at Berkhamsted in Hertfordshire, the same school as Bill Tilman
and Graham Greene.
A term mate of Michael Meacher MP. Main interests long running, swimming
and boxing. Not very good at team sports, indeed, chose tennis as
opposed to cricket, but usually slipped away to
Grandparents house to work on a 1927 Austin 7 car instead of either.
Went to sea in the Merchant Navy in 1957 as a Deck officer. In 1962
married childhood sweetheart, Suzanne, who passed
away in November 2003 as a result of ovarian cancer. One daughter, Sara,
born in Bombay 1963, and now 5 grandchildren. Interests:- Sailing,
Exploring by boat, Maritime History, the marine environment,
youth development, shooting.

In 1992 RKJ was invited to become President of the Sail Training
Association, a youth development organisation which operated two topsail
schooners “Sir Winston Churchill” and “Malcolm Miller”
and also organised the annual Tall Ships races. Before he retired in
2001 £11 million had been raised to replace these two vessels with two
larger brigs “Prince William” and “Stavros Niarchos”
respectively left and right below.

Also, there is a nice steel sailboat for sail in Nain, Labrador. A
fellow just finished doing the North East passage last fall. Made him
Nova Scotia sailer of the year.

Then he got wacked by a 42 year old driver as he was riding his bike.

BTW - said sailor was 72.

Now slightly off topic, not that old, but with a different kind of handicap.

Howard Blackburn was born in Nova Scotia in 1859. At the age of 18, he
moved south to Massachusetts, seeking work as a fisherman, and became
part of the Gloucester, Massachusetts fishing community.
Blackburn first rose to fame in 1883. While he was fishing on the
schooner Grace L. Fears, a sudden winter storm caught him and a crewmate
unprepared while they were in their dory, leaving them
separated from the schooner. Blackburn began to row for shore, despite
the loss of his mittens; he knew his hands would freeze, so he kept them
in the hooked position that would allow him to row.

After five days with virtually no food, water, or sleep, he made it to
shore in Newfoundland; but his companion had died during the journey.
Blackburn's hands were treated for frostbite, but could
not be saved; he lost all his fingers, and both thumbs to the first joint.

Blackburn returned to Gloucester a hero, and with the help of the town,
managed to establish a successful saloon. Not content with this, he
organised an expedition to the Klondike to join the gold
rush; rather than go overland, he and his group sailed there, via Cape Horn.

After the quest for gold failed, Blackburn turned his attention to a new
challenge — to sail single-handed across the Atlantic Ocean. This had
been done before, by Alfred "Centennial" Johnson
in 1876, and Joshua Slocum had completed a single-handed
circumnavigation in 1898; but for a man with no fingers to undertake
such a voyage would be quite an accomplishment.

He sailed from Gloucester in 1899, in the sloop Great Western, and
reached England after 62 days at sea.

Returning to Gloucester, Blackburn continued to prosper as a
businessman; but he still hankered for adventure. In 1901, he sailed to
Portugal in the twenty-five-foot sloop Great Republic,
making the trip in 39 days. In 1903 he again set out alone, this time in
the sailing dory America, but was defeated by bad weather.

Blackburn died in 1932; his funeral was attended by many of the people
of Gloucester. He was buried in the Fishermen’s Rest section of
Beechgrove Cemetery.

Live and learn, or live an snooze, you choose.




Larry wrote:
Vic Smith wrote in
:

Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted?


It's been going on for days and is very well reported, here in
Charleston. Trucks are being warned to stay off the high bridges. Winds
were 50 mph here, yesterday and about the same, today.

A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East
Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a
local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab
angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky
is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us.

They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This
statement from the webpage says it all:

"a couple in their 70’s and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200
miles out to sea."

IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO
YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!!

As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say
LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the
course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no
matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then,
we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT
YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and
boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are
too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that
worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for.

NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE
SEAMEN!


Larry

Larry wrote:
Vic Smith wrote in
:


Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted?



It's been going on for days and is very well reported, here in
Charleston. Trucks are being warned to stay off the high bridges. Winds
were 50 mph here, yesterday and about the same, today.

A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East
Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a
local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab
angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky
is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us.

They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This
statement from the webpage says it all:

"a couple in their 70’s and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200
miles out to sea."

IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO
YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!!

As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say
LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the
course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no
matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then,
we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT
YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and
boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are
too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that
worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for.

NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE
SEAMEN!


Larry
I am not yet 70, but I am closer to 70 that 50. I would much prefer to
boat in areas where most of the people handling the boats were in their
70's experienced and attentive to the job at hand, rather than go
boating in areas where you get a hangover from the guy in the next boat
when you get down wind of him.

I don't believe age has any thing to do with operation of a boat.
Experience and common sense over rule any other factor.



--
Keith Nuttle
3110 Marquette Court
Indianapolis, IN 46268
317-802-0699