"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Apr 2007 19:04:11 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:
Karin,
My university educational qualifications are in Zoology as a major.

Did you realise that phylogenetically, men are merely modified
females?


Yes, of that I am aware. Personally, I think you got the short end of the
stick. But, as the saying goes, it takes two to Tango.

That Real Men who can "**** over the side, burp, flatulate" etc can
actually breast feed babies without taking any medication or hormones
- merely by allowing the baby to suckle several times a day for a
period of about three weeks? It has been done.


Of that I am not aware. But something tells me that it wasn't done for the
benefit of the baby.

On Mon, 2 Apr 2007 22:16:24 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

This just proves that you need to meet a higher class of woman, Larry.

He's met them but they run the other way.

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

Quite possibly we are talking about quite different areas of sailing.
I am understandably focused on cruising sailors and not day sailing. I
have met quite a few of the latter - not sure which is more amusing,
the men with the gold braided Captain's cap or the women with their
designer yachting gear. - no I know that not all are like that.


I think, too, our being on the opposite sides of the planet, though
sharing somewhat a common language, the people in our places are totally
different. The "cruisers", here, come in two distinct versions....

The first, of course, are the reasonably affluent. The husband has
worked 90 hours a week, most of his life, surrounded by "staff" of one
kind or another. He's used to having it "his way", in his world. Now,
having "made it", he has a beautiful yacht commensurate with his status,
or perhaps perceived status, and is "captain" of his new ship, having
relinquished his "old ship" to another back at the office. He and the
wife, or trophy wife in many cases you see down the dock, are living HIS
dream, not necessarily hers. The really affluent simply hire crew for
the 120' custom yacht and a professional captain. The reasonably
affluent want to be alone. Hubby has been to the finest sailing schools
and has sailed amazing ships. He's a good sailor, all 'round. The wife
spent her life in the mall with hubby's credit card stack doing her life.
Now, going along with his dream, she's faced with sailing the big
Beneteau 60 she's not quite competent to sail. Hubby, used to "handling
everything" back at Diaphram, Foam and Condom, LLC, thinks he can cruise
with only her as crew. If he dies in his sleep, of course, she'll die,
lost, in a week or two at sea.

The second is the "budget cruiser". They worked hard, too, but didn't
quite make it on 90 hours a week. They sold the house to buy the boat
and sometimes have to work ashore to pay its awful bills, some very
unexpected. You'll recognize their boats either tied up or anchored out
to save money, or tied up for a day or two at the transient dock. The
boat looks "lived in", like an nice old RV. It's cluttered with their
"stuff" because they don't have a home to leave their stuff in any more.
They liveaboard full time, moving like nomads from anchorage to
anchorage, sometimes following the jobs available to keep the dream
moving. Their dingy and outboard motors look, well, "old". The wife is
a much better sailor than the trophy wife after she has been at sea a
while and learns to like it. I know a few who wouldn't have it any other
way. Others always have "divorce" or the wife stays ashore with family,
most of the time, leaving hubby alone or with someone he's met who sails
with him as he can't do it all himself. I used to sail with one of
these. We had a great time on his old boat.

In either case, you'll find another phenomenon putting everyone at risk.
Many of the wives are NOT interested in learning and doing. They want to
be passengers to the sailing. This leaves hubby virtually sailing alone.
If anything happens to him, disaster ensues. Tonight as I type this
after midnight, there are many boats at sea sailing in this condition...a
condition towards disaster.

My perception of women "down under" is of a more resourceful, tougher,
hardier female group. I think it's related to the history of Oz and NZ.
Those not tougher either went back to England, if they could, or died.
I'm sure in the new cities there are as cosmopolitan a breed of females
as in an American city, cared for, mostly helpless in a sailing
situation. But, as with Julia Hazel, most are more adventuresome and
better suited to a sailing environment.

I sail with guys who sail with their wives, alone, many places. The wife
is NOT qualified to drive a dingy with an outboard...and certainly does
not belong, by herself, at the helm of a 35' sloop, 50 km offshore, even
in calmer conditions, on watch as the only sailor aboard is asleep,
totally exhausted BECAUSE he is the only sailor aboard, and NOT
physically fit to be the ONLY sailor aboard. Boat captains who are
bankers or lawyers or doctors or office jocks and over 40 don't like to
look inward at their own limits, either. They shouldn't pull up the main
unless there's some young, strong, able seamen to help them do it
right....

Larry
--

" wrote in
ups.com:

It is the Captain's
responsibility to know the limitations of the crew and to make
allowances for them.


I totally agree. But, alas, there's no "oversight" from anywhere to
prevent (force) that 62-year-old bank president to realize he CANNOT
safely operate his 44' CSY yacht in the open ocean with just his 59-year-
old wife as crew in that 40 knot squall and 8' seas.

You cannot fly a plane unless you are QUALIFIED to some standard, skill
and medical. You cannot drive a truck unless you are QUALIFIED to some
standard of skill and medical condition. Captain Jenkins cannot drive TO
the CSY 44 at Megayacht Marina unless he QUALIFIES to a skill level and
can READ THE EYE TEST at the DMV, either. But NOONE ANYWHERE stops him
from boarding that yacht, firing up that diesel, and killing himself and
his wife and kids sailing out of the harbor for the last time. All he
needs is M-O-N-E-Y. He doesn't even have to SEE, can be sitting on the
edge of a massive heart attack, and doesn't really need any skill at all
because....all he needs is M-O-N-E-Y.

I think that is wrong. I know it is really screwed up! We spend
millions making sure his Lincoln Navigator is safe, has certain required
safety equipment, whether he likes it or not, and makes sure he has the
skill to get to the parking lot without killing anyone from sheer
incompetence. We spend NOTHING making sure his boat is properly
equipped, he's actually WEARING proper safety gear, and knows how to use
it....and all his watchstanders are qualified, too. If Captain Jenkins
goes blind, he won't be allowed to drive the Navigator to the boat. But,
he'll still be able to sail off into oblivion.

How stupid, just to make a few boat dealers happy.

Larry
--

On 2007-04-02 11:22:59 -0400, "Skip Gundlach" said:

First order of business is to become more familiar with the boat and
its gear. I'd wanted, from the start, to take an extended US coastal
trip as a shakedown. Sometimes you have to be hit upside the head
with a 2x4 to get your attention; that's now happened with Lydia,
who's (now) enthusiastically looking forward to all that the East
Coast has to offer. And, as life is what happens as you're making
other plans, who knows? We may find such pleasures addictive and do
that plus the Bahamas for many years. However, we expect to head out
again in November or thereabouts, beginning our Caribbean
adventure(s).

When you get to the Chesapeake, look us up. In fact, get and read
Shellenberger's "Cruising the Chesapeake, a Gunkholer's Guide". That'll
whet your appetite.

It's been said by many people who know both grounds, the most notable
I've heard being Tom Neale, that if you are comfortable on the
Chesapeake, the Bahamas are well within your capabilities.

Good training grounds and wonderful cruising.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Mon, 2 Apr 2007 22:20:46 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:


"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 2 Apr 2007 19:04:11 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:
Karin,
My university educational qualifications are in Zoology as a major.

Did you realise that phylogenetically, men are merely modified
females?


Yes, of that I am aware. Personally, I think you got the short end of the
stick. But, as the saying goes, it takes two to Tango.

That Real Men who can "**** over the side, burp, flatulate" etc can
actually breast feed babies without taking any medication or hormones
- merely by allowing the baby to suckle several times a day for a
period of about three weeks? It has been done.


Of that I am not aware. But something tells me that it wasn't done for the
benefit of the baby.



Karin,
I could wax eloquent on this topic but it has nothing to do with
boating and I don't want to set off a particular person into a tirade
of fetish revelations. Suffice it to say that prepubescent breast
tissue is identical in males and females. It is the release of
hormones that causes breasts to grow and to lactate. Breasts are
merely modified sweat glands which sort of takes the 'romance' out of
them. I had a physiology professor who specialised in this field. He
had just returned from working at John Hopkins on development of a
lactation supression pill whereby women who did not want to breastfeed
and have their breasts enlarged and thus 'deformed' could do so.
Needless to say, we focused (kept abreast ) a lot on that area.

There is a lot of research being done at the moment whereby childless
women who adopt babies can breastfeed merely by suckling several times
a day for a few weeks. It is the old story of the biblical wet nurse
who could feed another's child even though she may not be lactating
initially. During WWII, it was recorded that many starved men in
Japanese POW camps began to secrete milk from their breasts due to
hormone upsets due to that starvation.

Under experimental conditions men have begun to lactate without
developing large breasts. It is a common misconception that larger
breasts produce more milk. Not so. Milk glands are about the same size
and produce the same quantity regardless of how much fatty tissue
surrounds them.

On a personal note, I have always envied mothers the closeness with
their offspring that breastfeeding develops - and no, I have not tried
it. As I worked from home while building my boat with our youngest
child - my wife worked outside the home, I basically raised him and
value the closeness we have, but as with most children, his mother
still has that stronger bond. Perhaps it is more than that and the
Gaia complex is still with us. I know that both European and Asian men
about to be hanged often call out for their mothers. I did ask but was
told that nobody yet has called out for their father.

The boating aspect - with a baby in a liferaft, it doesn't have to
starve. Also, those with a fishing bent should know that if they catch
a seahorse in their net to be kind to the males and release them
unhurt. They are the ones who carry the babies in a special abdominal
pouch and feed them "milk" while the mothers are away having a good
time.

Actually the really fascinating things are the Nodules of Montgomery
which we all have. Science has only relatively recently discovered
their purpose.

cheers
Peter

Aviation is on area where you can't make the same mistake - once!

Peter Hendra wrote:

Skip,
May I make a couple of points.
1. You said that you had a sea anchor and would have used it had it
been more readily available. When crossing an ocean or when uncertain
weather is imminent, it may be a good idea to have the sea anchor
ready for deployment on deck. It is not onerous and will give you
confidence to face any weather. I have a short length of stout nylon
line with a eye splice on each end - with galvanised thimbles. One end
drops over the bollard on the mid-foredeck (bronze maltese cross). The
other is shackled to a short length of half inch galvanised chain
which passes over the anchor roller preventing chafe to any line (one
of the main problems of a sea-anchor). One does not have to crawl up
the deck in a stong wind and crashing seas in the dark to "move the
line a little". From the chain to the cockpit, outside the staunchions
and secured at intervals with plastic cable ties, I have an 18 mm
three strand nylon rode with an eye at each end.

The sea anchor plus the zipped bag with the 120 metres of nylon braid
are secured to the aft deck. Both ends of the braid are available when
I open the bag and I shackle these (two bow shackles to each eye
splice for added security) to both the rode along side the boat and to
the para anchor.l When I decide to deploy, all I do is lie the vessel
about 20 degrees off the wind and waves, throw out the retrieval line
after clipping on a large round fender as a float, and when it has fed
out by the boat's backward drift, I feed out the para anchor. It all
happens in surprising slow motion and i'm sitting down, safely in the
cockpit the entire time. The anchor pulls the nylon braid out of its
bag and then, when that it out, it pulls on the line to the bow,
snapping the cable ties one after another. There is nothing greater
than being bounced around crashing up and down through the seas and
heading into bad weather, than suddenly lying stable with the bow
rising up and down with each on-coming wave. It's just like parking
your car in a busy freeway on a long journey and taking a break.

This sounds like a great system for stowing and
deploying the sea para-anchor. This is the first
time I've heard of this way of doing it, but it
makes good sense to me. I'm going to save your
post for when I get ready to rig my (yet to be
acquired) sea anchor.

Don W.

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:49:38 GMT, Don W
wrote:



Peter Hendra wrote:

Skip,
May I make a couple of points.
1. You said that you had a sea anchor and would have used it had it
been more readily available. When crossing an ocean or when uncertain
weather is imminent, it may be a good idea to have the sea anchor
ready for deployment on deck. It is not onerous and will give you
confidence to face any weather. I have a short length of stout nylon
line with a eye splice on each end - with galvanised thimbles. One end
drops over the bollard on the mid-foredeck (bronze maltese cross). The
other is shackled to a short length of half inch galvanised chain
which passes over the anchor roller preventing chafe to any line (one
of the main problems of a sea-anchor). One does not have to crawl up
the deck in a stong wind and crashing seas in the dark to "move the
line a little". From the chain to the cockpit, outside the staunchions
and secured at intervals with plastic cable ties, I have an 18 mm
three strand nylon rode with an eye at each end.

The sea anchor plus the zipped bag with the 120 metres of nylon braid
are secured to the aft deck. Both ends of the braid are available when
I open the bag and I shackle these (two bow shackles to each eye
splice for added security) to both the rode along side the boat and to
the para anchor.l When I decide to deploy, all I do is lie the vessel
about 20 degrees off the wind and waves, throw out the retrieval line
after clipping on a large round fender as a float, and when it has fed
out by the boat's backward drift, I feed out the para anchor. It all
happens in surprising slow motion and i'm sitting down, safely in the
cockpit the entire time. The anchor pulls the nylon braid out of its
bag and then, when that it out, it pulls on the line to the bow,
snapping the cable ties one after another. There is nothing greater
than being bounced around crashing up and down through the seas and
heading into bad weather, than suddenly lying stable with the bow
rising up and down with each on-coming wave. It's just like parking
your car in a busy freeway on a long journey and taking a break.

This sounds like a great system for stowing and
deploying the sea para-anchor. This is the first
time I've heard of this way of doing it, but it
makes good sense to me. I'm going to save your
post for when I get ready to rig my (yet to be
acquired) sea anchor.

Don W.

Hi Don,
Upon reading what I had written, I should have mentioned that the boat
does not drift directly astern. It does (well mine does) a drift at
about a 45 to 30 degree angle to the waves. I feed the lot (sitting
down for safety) out over the side from the cockpit.

Please bear in mind in all of this that I am not an expert on rough
weather or sea anchors. I am only reporting my experience.
I meant to write that the leeward drift for me is about half a knot,
much better than running before it back along the way you have come or
beating into heavy seas with a gain of about a knot towards your
destination. I have used it, not only in really bad weather but when I
have needed to take a break such as when a 40knot souwester coming
towards me on a course to the Canaries. Far better, thought I, to take
a break and let the bad weather go past than taking the wheel and
fighting it on a beat with a gain of perhaps 1 knot.


I have read a lot about positioning your boat so that the parachute is
on one wave crest whilst the boat is on another. Quite frankly, how
does one see the damned thing at 130 metres, below the water, in
****ty weather, in the dark? I can never see it in the day time when I
have deployed it. I have also read that one should put a bridle on the
nylon line from the boat so that one can pull the boat around so as to
take the seas to one side of the bow. My experience is that my boat -
fin keels and rudder on a skeg - rides wonderfully well with the sea
anchor rode dead ahead. I get mixed feelings of oneness with my boat,
gratitude for her taking it all in her stead and absolute love for her
being there, sheltering and protecting me while waves and wind are all
around. The peace and tranquility induced is positively euphoric.

Karen, we men may have been given the sort end of the stick but lying
to a sea anchor, relaxing and listening to music with the sound of the
wind powering through the rigging is better than your long end any day
- lasts longer and doesn't lead to blindness and insanity.....

as I said, I am not an expert. This is just my experience.

cheers
Peter

Oh my God...............! what has happened to this place. Men breast
feeding.........???!?!?!? WTF? That is just wrong!

I dont read here for a while and this is what happens? Gag me with a
spoon. Please take this dribble to asa.sailing. I think we need to set
a few Man Laws here. Man Law: no talking about lactating male titties.
Boat talk PLEASE.
Grossed Out Bob