I knew that there is no way solar would keep up with my cruising loads.
Cruising in Maine, where the wind usually doesn't come up unitl noon,
usually involves enough motoring to keep the batteries charged. It's the
periods when we're not cruising and just daysailing that I'm concerned
about.

I won't be running the anchor light on the mooring and I just bought one of
the new low draw LED units anyway. My old one was a combination bow/mast
light with two bulbs and was a real hog but it was the only one I could get
when I found that the original was toast the day before the mast was to go
up. The only daysailing draw will be the GPS, radio which I seldom
transmit on (for which I have been already soundly berated on this group),
instruments, and a bit of fresh water pumping.

I also don't expect to keep up entirely with the loads. It's more a matter
of balancing the cost of a modest solar rig against the extension of battery
life and capacity. Maybe just buying new batteries every 2 - 3 years makes
more sense. I get my AGM's cheap enough from a non-marine source that a set
every year would just be a blip in the cost of boat ownership.

Wind is the way to go but location and foundation support are an issue on my
boat.

I'd still like to know if there is a panel that you think makes sense for
this application.

--
Roger Long

The AGM do a good job of holding their charge so this should be much
of a problem. I have two AGM starting batteries and I discovered last
year that they were not getting combined, so one ran most of the
summer without ever getting charged. And the loads from the GPS and
VHF are (probably) pretty small, so in fact you would recover a full
day's use in 10 or 20 minutes of running the engine.

However, it would be prudent to have a panel to make sure the pump
will continue to run, and the engine can be started. There are nice
flexible panels that are convenient - I used one for a few seasons.
They can be toss on the deck, the seat or draped over the boom. You
just want to try to avoid shading. If there's a good spot for a solid
panel, that would put out 2-3 times the power for the price, but the
flexi is more convenient.

The only problem is that they are a bit pricey - the smaller ones that
list around $100 don't have much output. However, it you look on eBay
you might find the same panel that West sells for $200 for half the
price. A 10 Watt panel should do a reasonable job of keeping the
batteries topped off while you're not there.



* Roger Long wrote, On 3/19/2007 6:03 AM:
I knew that there is no way solar would keep up with my cruising loads.
Cruising in Maine, where the wind usually doesn't come up unitl noon,
usually involves enough motoring to keep the batteries charged. It's the
periods when we're not cruising and just daysailing that I'm concerned
about.

I won't be running the anchor light on the mooring and I just bought one of
the new low draw LED units anyway. My old one was a combination bow/mast
light with two bulbs and was a real hog but it was the only one I could get
when I found that the original was toast the day before the mast was to go
up. The only daysailing draw will be the GPS, radio which I seldom
transmit on (for which I have been already soundly berated on this group),
instruments, and a bit of fresh water pumping.

I also don't expect to keep up entirely with the loads. It's more a matter
of balancing the cost of a modest solar rig against the extension of battery
life and capacity. Maybe just buying new batteries every 2 - 3 years makes
more sense. I get my AGM's cheap enough from a non-marine source that a set
every year would just be a blip in the cost of boat ownership.

Wind is the way to go but location and foundation support are an issue on my
boat.

I'd still like to know if there is a panel that you think makes sense for
this application.

--
Roger Long

Roger ,, go to the Pearson Vanguard Group on Yahoo Groups.

There is a sailor/Captain over there, named David Heilman, who uses solar.
He has two high output solar panels.
And he really burns up the juice. He has stereo, tv, vcr, you name it and
with his solar setup.. power to burn.

For the good solar panels, it is costly. The following is from an email
David sent me back in the fall.



"We had 1 85watt panel on "On Location" I got it on clearance from
Alternative engery sources on the web. The panel cost $695 which was a $150
savings. I am going to put two 130 watt panels on our Easterly 38 and those
panels are coming from Mr Solar and will cost $900 each and the two
controllers will bring the total cost to about $2,000. In my humble opinion
good solar panels and controllers will run around $1,000 ea, keeping in mind
we are on a ball, are not bashfull about running electronics, only use the
engine to get out and back and enjoy time on the boat even if we do not
sail. Not quite liveaboards yet but close."

Here is another email from Captain Heilman.

"Not sure how much help I can be but will try. I did a lot of research 3
years ago when we went onto the ball. Got real confused with all the
formulas also. What I did find was this, the only panels that are worth a
damm are the rigid expensive ones, the thin flexablie ones that are easy to
mount are not worth the trouble, you need at least 40 watts for each 12 volt
deep cycle battery. On the Vanguard we had two house batteries so I bought
one 85watt panel. On the Easterly I have installed four house batteries and
will have two 130 watt panels. A good panel, that means expensive, will
generate power on a slightly overcast day, you must have a charge controller
both to prevent overcharging of the batteries and to stop the panel from
drawing power back out of the batteries at night. Do not cheap out here
either. Mount the panels as high as practical and watch for things that will
cast a shadow on them. Like a flag from the backstay. This may seem like a
minor thing but keep them clean!

We used this formula for three years on our mooring, and even if we spent
several days on the boat without using the iron genny never ran out of
power.

Hope this helps.

Dave"

================================================== =========================================

If you are a reader of DIY magazine, Captain Heilman's Vanguard was featured
in one issue as David and his wife restored her. He has since sold her and
moved to a bigger boat.

================================================== =========================================




"Roger Long" wrote in message news:
I knew that there is no way solar would keep up with my cruising loads.
Cruising in Maine, where the wind usually doesn't come up unitl noon,
usually involves enough motoring to keep the batteries charged. It's the
periods when we're not cruising and just daysailing that I'm concerned
about.

I won't be running the anchor light on the mooring and I just bought one
of the new low draw LED units anyway. My old one was a combination
bow/mast light with two bulbs and was a real hog but it was the only one I
could get when I found that the original was toast the day before the mast
was to go up. The only daysailing draw will be the GPS, radio which I
seldom transmit on (for which I have been already soundly berated on this
group), instruments, and a bit of fresh water pumping.

I also don't expect to keep up entirely with the loads. It's more a
matter of balancing the cost of a modest solar rig against the extension
of battery life and capacity. Maybe just buying new batteries every 2 -
3 years makes more sense. I get my AGM's cheap enough from a non-marine
source that a set every year would just be a blip in the cost of boat
ownership.

Wind is the way to go but location and foundation support are an issue on
my boat.

I'd still like to know if there is a panel that you think makes sense for
this application.

--
Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in
:

I'd still like to know if there is a panel that you think makes sense
for this application.



All the panels are pretty much the same...inefficient, take lots of deck
space to produce any power making them always in the way, and very hard to
place so they get unobstructed sunshine as the boat swings around, either
underway or on the hook. It might keep an unloaded battery bank topped up,
but is a poor choice for powering even the small loads as it is so
intermittent....my point.

Larry
--
Message for Comcrap Internet Customers:
http://tinyurl.com/3ayl9c
Unlimited Service my ass.....(d^

Larry,, you sound like a "wind power" guy.

The problem with wind power is size, noise, vibration.

I'm certainly no expert; but doesn't it take a large blade to produce any
amount of power? And that large blade is spinning
and that means noise, and vibration.

On a small sailboat ??

There is one product I saw somewhere .. a portable wind power unit. It gets
hung in the triangle of the foredeck.

It is attached to the forestay, mast, etc. I think it swings into the wind.
It isn't very large though and that means less power; right?

Post some into on wind power if you have a moment.. I am interested.

Thanks,

=========
"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Roger Long" wrote in
:

I'd still like to know if there is a panel that you think makes sense
for this application.



All the panels are pretty much the same...inefficient, take lots of deck
space to produce any power making them always in the way, and very hard to
place so they get unobstructed sunshine as the boat swings around, either
underway or on the hook. It might keep an unloaded battery bank topped
up,
but is a poor choice for powering even the small loads as it is so
intermittent....my point.

Larry
--
Message for Comcrap Internet Customers:
http://tinyurl.com/3ayl9c
Unlimited Service my ass.....(d^

"NE Sailboat" wrote in
news:H_yLh.7193$zx.128@trndny05:

Larry,, you sound like a "wind power" guy.

The problem with wind power is size, noise, vibration.

I'm certainly no expert; but doesn't it take a large blade to produce
any amount of power? And that large blade is spinning
and that means noise, and vibration.



Lots of boats have wind power like the AirX unit I pointed you to the
webpage of. They usually sit aft on a stick, but very few try to
vibration isolate the stick from the hull, which I think can be easily
done both at the top and the bottom.

These marine genny's, unlike their shoreside brothers, have quite small
blades, turn quite fast as wind power goes, and don't generate much noise
at all....unless you're in a boat whos wind genny has bad bearings, of
course.

They're nicely balanced to minimize vibration and product returns by
irate boaters!

Of course, some day when this sailing "tradition" means less, we'll
probably be making a POWER boat out of some super genny like these guys
build in their mountainside shops:
http://www.otherpower.com/
I'd like to see one of these high-powered, 3-phase, PM rotored beasts
mounted to the aft handrail of a sailboat, trailing a ball-joint-mounted
shaft behind a cruising boat offshore with a properly-pitched screw
driving it, not some sailboat prop being pulled along the wrong way like
our shaft alternator on Lionheart.

These alternators are VERY slow RPM on a large wooden blade. No
expensive gearing, no exotic electronics/field coils/etc. I'd want the
marine dragging unit to have a variable space between the coils making
the load and the magnets turning against them so YOU could vary the shaft
loading for maximum efficiency.

What would you do with a kilowatt of constant electricity, day or night,
dragging its prop through the water? HOT SHOWERS FOR EVERYONE!

Larry
--
Message for Comcrap Internet Customers:
http://tinyurl.com/3ayl9c
Unlimited Service my ass.....(d^

The fellow who builds the Cape Horn wind vanes has a great DVD of his
circumnavigation. He had a stern pulpit mounted alternator with a prop
trailing on a line. It appears to have done a good job of supplying his
electrical needs since the boat didn't have an engine. This was in the
early 80's so it was probably just an automotive alternator.

A shark ate the trailing turbine and, after doing without power for a while,
he fabricated a new one from stuff he found on board. The improvised rotor
is beautiful and a testimony to what human ingeniuity can do with minimal
materials and tools.

--
Roger Long

Roger ,, the water generator are sold on the net. I talked to a fellow
sailor about one. He came across the Atlantic on a very large
sailing yacht and the water generator produced lots of power. He said they
would watch a movie every night while off watch.

He did tell me that the pull on a small boat would be a negative. And, he
said the water generator would not work near ports due to
lobster pots, etc.

Also,, he mentioned that fish are attracted to the generator and it can be
expensive when the thing gets eaten.

Tally ho.

=========
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
The fellow who builds the Cape Horn wind vanes has a great DVD of his
circumnavigation. He had a stern pulpit mounted alternator with a prop
trailing on a line. It appears to have done a good job of supplying his
electrical needs since the boat didn't have an engine. This was in the
early 80's so it was probably just an automotive alternator.

A shark ate the trailing turbine and, after doing without power for a
while, he fabricated a new one from stuff he found on board. The
improvised rotor is beautiful and a testimony to what human ingeniuity can
do with minimal materials and tools.

--
Roger Long

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:11:52 +0000, Larry wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in
:

I'd still like to know if there is a panel that you think makes sense
for this application.



All the panels are pretty much the same...inefficient, take lots of deck
space to produce any power making them always in the way, and very hard to
place so they get unobstructed sunshine as the boat swings around, either
underway or on the hook. It might keep an unloaded battery bank topped up,
but is a poor choice for powering even the small loads as it is so
intermittent....my point.


It all depends. I have a 45' power boat (a 60 year old nine knotter)
with two 80 watt panels on the cabin roof. They are tied together
through a common regulator and keep my 220 amp.hour house batteries
charged. The house batteries in turn are coupled via a Heart Interface
echo charger to the starting battery to keep it topped up also.

I have a fridge and freezer running permanently (except in the depths
of winter when I turn off the freezer) and usually find that I can sit
on the anchor somewhere for several days before I have to run the
engine.

What I do find is that all the fancy LEDs and coloured lights with
which all the panels and other electrical gizmos are fitted can chew
up 1.5 amps without anything actually being turned on.

Oh - and I have an electric toilet and Electrosan which can hit the
batteries with a fair wallop when I have people on board.



Eric Stevens

Eric Stevens wrote in
:

It all depends. I have a 45' power boat (a 60 year old nine knotter)
with two 80 watt panels on the cabin roof. They are tied together
through a common regulator and keep my 220 amp.hour house batteries
charged. The house batteries in turn are coupled via a Heart Interface
echo charger to the starting battery to keep it topped up also.


Love the boat. Thanks for keeping her afloat. Most powerboaters are in
WAY too much of a hurry to "get there" for me...(c;

But, alas, 160 watts only happens in direct, bright sunshine and, at 14V
is only 11A at peak output, which, if the thing can be kept pointing at
the sun with nothing shadowing it, the 11A peak is at the top of a daily
bell curve, which starts around 9-10 AM and dies off quickly after 3PM,
at best. Boat environment swinging around on a hook is anywhere near "at
best".

You probably make 30 AH/day on sunny days...nothing if it's cloudy.

I'm afraid I'm STILL the advocate for a wind generator in coastal
climates....one that makes serious power 24 hours a day if the wind is
up. On a power boat, of course, even a slow one, you'll want to stow it
with the engine running the alternator(s).

Larry
--
Message for Comcrap Internet Customers:
http://tinyurl.com/3ayl9c
Unlimited Service my ass.....(d^