So many products on the market. If you have an opinion? Between Bristol
Finish and Cetol?

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:V10Hh.11344$ig.7344@trndny01...
So many products on the market. If you have an opinion? Between Bristol
Finish and Cetol?




Cetol looks like paint. Varnish is more work, but looks nicer if it's
maintained.

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:V10Hh.11344$ig.7344@trndny01...
So many products on the market. If you have an opinion? Between Bristol
Finish and Cetol?



cetol lasts for a long time and with a recoat every year. It does look like
a stain (which it is).

Varnish may last a season.

I use cetol because I do not like doing varnish work in the sun.

"Rick" wrote in message
...

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:V10Hh.11344$ig.7344@trndny01...
So many products on the market. If you have an opinion? Between Bristol
Finish and Cetol?



cetol lasts for a long time and with a recoat every year. It does look
like a stain (which it is).

Varnish may last a season.

I use cetol because I do not like doing varnish work in the sun.


Even in Southern California my varnish lasted longer than a single season.
But it's important to keep it covered if possible when the boat isn't being
used. Tiller covers, handrail covers, boom gallows covers, rail covers...
many boats in SoCal have canvas houses covering the boat from stem to stern.
Of course, their owners have too much money, too.

On Mar 5, 5:34 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:
So many products on the market. If you have an opinion? Between Bristol
Finish and Cetol?


I've used both. And both last a long time.

Cetol is the quickest and easiest to use of the two. And while you can
top coat with their gloss finish it does not really look like varnish
when you're done. So you may need to see it on another boat to deside
if it's for you.

Bristol looks like varnish but lasts much longer than traditional
varnish. It's a two part system that takes a bit getting used to to
work with because it tends to be very thin or watery when you apply
it. But you can overcoat it with out sanding so you can build up coats
very fast.
It works best if you seal the wood with clear epoxy like West system
or CPES before appling Bristol.

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:49:22 -0600, KLC Lewis wrote:

Cetol looks like paint. Varnish is more work, but looks nicer if it's
maintained.

The new Cetol "Marine Light" looks less like orange paint and more like
traditional varnish.

Matt O.

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:34:45 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

So many products on the market. If you have an opinion? Between Bristol
Finish and Cetol?



Cetol requires a lot less time and effort to maintain. It comes in three
basic
varities:

Cetol Marine, which is the darkest, and most "orangy" in color. Some folks
have
a real thing about the way it looks. They have a lot of time to obsess
about it
as they sand and re-varnish every season.

Cetol Light: A much lighter color than the original. Since you don';t have
to
sand down old Cetol to apply a refresher coat, many folks use the
original for
the first coat (for stronger UV protection), and then use Cetol light over
it as
their yearly refresh coat. That keeps the overall look from getting very
dark
over the years.

Cetol Natural Teak: New product. Lighter than Cetol Light, and more like
the
color of varnished teak. I don't know for a fact, but I would guess it
can't
protect against UV as well as the more tinted versions. Then again, real
varnish
doesn't do much to protect the wood at all, which is why you have to
scrape and
sand it off every time you want to refresh things. That's pretty hard on
the
teak, which weathers under the varnish and then gets sanded!


CWM

Charlie, either your experience with varnish is with a horrible formulation,
or you just don't have any. Quality varnish, such as "Flagship," has very
high UV protection. Properly applied to properly prepared wood, it will
protect extremely well. Nor does it have to be "scraped and sanded off every
time you want to refresh things." Scuff the surface, clean, apply varnish
topcoat, Bob's your uncle. If scuffing and cleaning the old varnish is too
much for you, combine some Penetrol with the varnish and you don't even
have to do that.

Yes, varnish requires maintenance. But so does Cetol, for that matter. There
is no substance known to man which can be applied to wood which will then
forever protect and keep it shiny and pretty. Everything wears out over
time.

As an aside, UV protection does not require opacity, nor does opacity
guarantee UV protection.

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:34:45 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

So many products on the market. If you have an opinion? Between Bristol
Finish and Cetol?



Cetol requires a lot less time and effort to maintain. It comes in three
basic
varities:

Cetol Marine, which is the darkest, and most "orangy" in color. Some
folks have
a real thing about the way it looks. They have a lot of time to obsess
about it
as they sand and re-varnish every season.

Cetol Light: A much lighter color than the original. Since you don';t
have to
sand down old Cetol to apply a refresher coat, many folks use the
original for
the first coat (for stronger UV protection), and then use Cetol light
over it as
their yearly refresh coat. That keeps the overall look from getting very
dark
over the years.

Cetol Natural Teak: New product. Lighter than Cetol Light, and more like
the
color of varnished teak. I don't know for a fact, but I would guess it
can't
protect against UV as well as the more tinted versions. Then again, real
varnish
doesn't do much to protect the wood at all, which is why you have to
scrape and
sand it off every time you want to refresh things. That's pretty hard on
the
teak, which weathers under the varnish and then gets sanded!


CWM

Charlie, either your experience with varnish is with a horrible
formulation, or you just don't have any. Quality varnish, such as
"Flagship," has very high UV protection. Properly applied to properly
prepared wood, it will protect extremely well. Nor does it have to be
"scraped and sanded off every time you want to refresh things." Scuff the
surface, clean, apply varnish topcoat, Bob's your uncle. If scuffing and
cleaning the old varnish is too much for you, combine some Penetrol with
the varnish and you don't even have to do that.

Yes, varnish requires maintenance. But so does Cetol, for that matter.
There is no substance known to man which can be applied to wood which will
then forever protect and keep it shiny and pretty. Everything wears out
over time.

As an aside, UV protection does not require opacity, nor does opacity
guarantee UV protection.

I agree with KLC. "Varnish" today is not the same as the traditional
varnish from 50 years ago. I've been using Interlux Goldspar which is a
single part polyurethane "varnish". Eight coats and you have a beautiful
clear and shiny finish. Eight coats of Cetol and you have mud.

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 16:35:54 GMT, "Gordon Wedman"
wrote:
I agree with KLC. "Varnish" today is not the same as the traditional
varnish from 50 years ago. I've been using Interlux Goldspar which is a
single part polyurethane "varnish". Eight coats and you have a beautiful
clear and shiny finish. Eight coats of Cetol and you have mud.


EIGHT COATS? Are you looking for excuses to avoid sailing?

CWM

The initial application takes time and effort. After that, maintenance is as
easy as Cetol with vastly superior appearance. Annual scuff, clean, topcoat.
With proper wood prep, it will not peel or flake. After many years, you
might want to remove and redo -- is that so difficult? If so, go ahead and
paint your wood. ;-)

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
news

Maintenance is MUCH higher, the coating is less durable, and the UV
protection for the WOOD is far less or non-existent.

KLC: "Varnish is more work, but looks nicer if it's
maintained."

So, you've already told us that you know it's more work.

KLC: "Even in Southern California my varnish lasted longer than a
single season. But it's important to keep it covered if possible when
the boat isn't being used. Tiller covers, handrail covers, boom
gallows covers, rail covers... many boats in SoCal have canvas houses
covering the boat from stem to stern."

So, you also stated that you know that Varnish is not really very
durable at all. You have to cover everything with REAL protection from
the elements in the form of canvas covers. How good does your
varnished wood look when it's covered with canvas? Why not just paint
your wood with pacific blue enamel and be done with it?


KLC: "Nor does it have to be "scraped and sanded off every
time you want to refresh things." Scuff the surface, clean, apply
varnish topcoat, Bob's your uncle."

Not true. You might get away with that for one extra season (if you
have carefully kept everything covered with that lovely blue canvas -
which you have already told us is necessary for varnish because it
offers very little protection of its own)

Here are a couple of things you don't know: Clear Varnish may contain
some form of UV protection or stabilization for the_varnish_itself,
but does almost nothing to keep the underlying wood from being damaged
by the sun. That's why you have to strip it all off every few years.
The wood has still taken a beating.

To protect the wood REQUIRES some level of opacity, and the more
opacity, the more protection. That's why you have to cover all your
wood with canvas. I don't cover any of mine. That's because my wood is
protected by the finish. Yours is not.

CWM

Yes, varnish is more work. I have so stipulated. Regarding the covering, it
prolongs the life of the varnish. Is it necessary to keep it covered all the
time? Nope. I cover it when the boat is sitting because it prolongs the life
of the varnish. If I were out cruising, the covers would come off and stay
off because the boat is constantly presenting different surfaces to the sun,
rather than the situation sitting in a slip where one side is exposed to
direct sun while other surfaces are always shaded. And they aren't blue,
they're green.

In Long Beach, we "got away with" five years without having to strip the
varnish, and it was stil in fine shape when we sold the boat. I have no idea
what the current owner is doing, or even who the current owner is, as this
was many years ago.

UV protection in the varnish prevents UV from getting to the wood. That is
the reason for it being in there to begin with. The varnish also keeps water
out and oils in. And WHEN I decide to remove the varnish and start over, the
wood underneath all that varnish is in beautiful shape, not damaged by the
sun. This isn't theory, it's genuine experience.

How opaque is the sunscreen that you put on your skin? Not at all unless you
like zinc oxide.

Varnish is not for everyone. If you want simple and easy, paint your wood
with Cetol or some other substance. If you want beautiful brightwork,
varnish it and accept that it's more work than paint. For some of us, it's
worth the trade-off.