On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 12:24:27 -0500, Charlie Morgan
wrote:

To protect the wood REQUIRES some level of opacity, and the more
opacity, the more protection. That's why you have to cover all your
wood with canvas. I don't cover any of mine. That's because my wood is
protected by the finish.

I believe you also boat in the north if memory is correct?

Big difference north and south.

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:02:19 -0600, KLC Lewis wrote:

Charlie, either your experience with varnish is with a horrible
formulation, or you just don't have any. Quality varnish, such as
"Flagship," has very high UV protection. Properly applied to properly
prepared wood, it will protect extremely well. Nor does it have to be
"scraped and sanded off every time you want to refresh things." Scuff
the surface, clean, apply varnish topcoat, Bob's your uncle. If scuffing
and cleaning the old varnish is too much for you, combine some Penetrol
with the varnish and you don't even have to do that.

Yes, varnish requires maintenance. But so does Cetol, for that matter.
There is no substance known to man which can be applied to wood which
will then forever protect and keep it shiny and pretty. Everything wears
out over time.

As an aside, UV protection does not require opacity, nor does opacity
guarantee UV protection.

I had a conversation about this with a chemical engineer from a paint
company.

Varnish fails because UV damages the wood underneath, destroying the bond.

The more transparent the UV protection, the higher the cost, which is why
cheap varnish fails quickly. Cheap varnish has either less effective
additives or less of the good ones. Enough of the good ones is expensive.

Classic Cetol uses iron oxide for UV protection, which explains the orange
color. I imagine it has other additives too though, and the "Light"
version less of the iron oxide and more of the transparent stuff.

After using both Cetol Light and Deks Olje side by side for two seasons,
we've switched all the exterior brightwork to Cetol Light. I was
quite surprised how well the Cetol held up, especially on the areas that
weren't covered over the winter. After a two year trial, it was clear
which was less work -- Cetol.

Matt O.

On Mar 6, 8:03 am, Charlie Morgan wrote:

Then again, real varnish
doesn't do much to protect the wood at all, which is why you have to scrape and
sand it off every time you want to refresh things. That's pretty hard on the
teak, which weathers under the varnish and then gets sanded!

CWM

Based on the above, you have never used varnish. Or at the very least
have no idea how to use it correctly.

On Mar 6, 12:30 pm, Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 09:02:19 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:







"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:34:45 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

So many products on the market. If you have an opinion? Between Bristol
Finish and Cetol?

Cetol requires a lot less time and effort to maintain. It comes in three
basic
varities:

Cetol Marine, which is the darkest, and most "orangy" in color. Some folks
have
a real thing about the way it looks. They have a lot of time to obsess
about it
as they sand and re-varnish every season.

Cetol Light: A much lighter color than the original. Since you don';t have
to
sand down old Cetol to apply a refresher coat, many folks use the
original for
the first coat (for stronger UV protection), and then use Cetol light over
it as
their yearly refresh coat. That keeps the overall look from getting very
dark
over the years.

Cetol Natural Teak: New product. Lighter than Cetol Light, and more like
the
color of varnished teak. I don't know for a fact, but I would guess it
can't
protect against UV as well as the more tinted versions. Then again, real
varnish
doesn't do much to protect the wood at all, which is why you have to
scrape and
sand it off every time you want to refresh things. That's pretty hard on
the
teak, which weathers under the varnish and then gets sanded!

CWM

Charlie, either your experience with varnish is with a horrible formulation,
or you just don't have any. Quality varnish, such as "Flagship," has very
high UV protection. Properly applied to properly prepared wood, it will
protect extremely well. Nor does it have to be "scraped and sanded off every
time you want to refresh things." Scuff the surface, clean, apply varnish
topcoat, Bob's your uncle. If scuffing and cleaning the old varnish is too
much for you, combine some Penetrol with the varnish and you don't even
have to do that.

Yes, varnish requires maintenance. But so does Cetol, for that matter. There
is no substance known to man which can be applied to wood which will then
forever protect and keep it shiny and pretty. Everything wears out over
time.

As an aside, UV protection does not require opacity, nor does opacity
guarantee UV protection.

I disagree. Pretty much on a line for line basis.

CWM- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again, that just tells anybody who does know how to apply varnish
correctly that you don't. I live in Florida and have had varnished
boats go up to 10 years before having to wood them down and start a
new with fresh varnish.

On Mar 6, 12:48 pm, Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 16:35:54 GMT, "Gordon Wedman"
wrote:
I agree with KLC. "Varnish" today is not the same as the traditional
varnish from 50 years ago. I've been using Interlux Goldspar which is a
single part polyurethane "varnish". Eight coats and you have a beautiful
clear and shiny finish. Eight coats of Cetol and you have mud.

EIGHT COATS? Are you looking for excuses to avoid sailing?

CWM-

12 coats is about the min. for a really top quality finish.

On Mar 6, 1:24 pm, Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 10:58:41 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:



KLC: "Nor does it have to be "scraped and sanded off every
time you want to refresh things." Scuff the surface, clean, apply
varnish topcoat, Bob's your uncle."

Not true. You might get away with that for one extra season (if you
have carefully kept everything covered with that lovely blue canvas -
which you have already told us is necessary for varnish because it
offers very little protection of its own)

Total BS.


Here are a couple of things you don't know: Clear Varnish may contain
some form of UV protection or stabilization for the_varnish_itself,
but does almost nothing to keep the underlying wood from being damaged
by the sun. That's why you have to strip it all off every few years.
The wood has still taken a beating.

You're back peddling now. First you said : "which is why you have to
scrape and
sand it off every time you want to refresh things."
Now it's every few years.


To protect the wood REQUIRES some level of opacity, and the more
opacity, the more protection. That's why you have to cover all your
wood with canvas. I don't cover any of mine. That's because my wood is
protected by the finish. Yours is not.

Canvas are used to prolong the life of the varnish. And extend the
time between recoating. Not so much to protect the wood.

Similar to the thread topic, I am wondering what is advised for coating
a wood steering wheel?

I bought this off eBay and it is NOT one of the decorative wheels with
the brass hubs. this has a bronze hub that fits my Edson pedestal and
appears to be mahogany. It's quite weathered and I've stripped all the
remaining varnish off. (There wasn't much left anyway).

I have a sunbrella type cover for wheel/pedestal/compass so this will
not be left out in the elements when not in use.

What would be good coating options? I'm not looking for classic yacht
perfection. In fact I'm willing to trade perfection of finish off in
return for less effort in coating.

So far I have two suggestions:


1) Coat 2x with product from rotdoctor.com then 7-10 coats of varnish.
(the wheel is not rotted. But this fellow says the product is a great
sealer).


2) Use some sort of sealer or filler to even out surface, then coat 3-4x
with West epoxy.

Any thoughts or other ideas welcomed.

(My address is phoney due to spam)

On Mar 7, 12:39 am, wrote:
Similar to the thread topic, I am wondering what is advised for coating
a wood steering wheel?

I bought this off eBay and it is NOT one of the decorative wheels with
the brass hubs. this has a bronze hub that fits my Edson pedestal and
appears to be mahogany. It's quite weathered and I've stripped all the
remaining varnish off. (There wasn't much left anyway).

I have a sunbrella type cover for wheel/pedestal/compass so this will
not be left out in the elements when not in use.

What would be good coating options? I'm not looking for classic yacht
perfection. In fact I'm willing to trade perfection of finish off in
return for less effort in coating.

So far I have two suggestions:

1) Coat 2x with product from rotdoctor.com then 7-10 coats of varnish.
(the wheel is not rotted. But this fellow says the product is a great
sealer).

2) Use some sort of sealer or filler to even out surface, then coat 3-4x
with West epoxy.

Any thoughts or other ideas welcomed.

(My address is phoney due to spam)

Wood it, 2-4 coats West or CPES, sand smooth, then 4-6 sprayed coats
of two part poly. Did that to two wheels 15 years ago. The interior
one still looks like it was done yesterday and the exterior one lasted
8+ years semicovered before it needed recoating.

wrote in message
...
Similar to the thread topic, I am wondering what is advised for coating
a wood steering wheel?

I bought this off eBay and it is NOT one of the decorative wheels with
the brass hubs. this has a bronze hub that fits my Edson pedestal and
appears to be mahogany. It's quite weathered and I've stripped all the
remaining varnish off. (There wasn't much left anyway).

I have a sunbrella type cover for wheel/pedestal/compass so this will
not be left out in the elements when not in use.

What would be good coating options? I'm not looking for classic yacht
perfection. In fact I'm willing to trade perfection of finish off in
return for less effort in coating.

So far I have two suggestions:


1) Coat 2x with product from rotdoctor.com then 7-10 coats of varnish.
(the wheel is not rotted. But this fellow says the product is a great
sealer).


2) Use some sort of sealer or filler to even out surface, then coat 3-4x
with West epoxy.

Any thoughts or other ideas welcomed.


Charlie hasn't convinced you that Cetol is the way to go? He's going to be
disappointed.
For something like a wheel that is going to be handled a lot and maybe
banged into from time to time you may want to go with durability and I would
guess epoxy is the ticket. I think that rotdoctor stuff may just be a thin
type of epoxy that penetrates the wood. There was some discussion about
thinning epoxy on the list a while ago and I think you can use acetone but
denatured alcohol was better, up to 10%. A coat of thinned epoxy followed
by several coats of regular should do it. Don't know about UV inhibitors in
epoxy but it might be worth asking about as they would help preserve the
wood.

On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:17:19 GMT, "Gordon Wedman"
wrote:

A coat of thinned epoxy followed
by several coats of regular should do it. Don't know about UV inhibitors in
epoxy but it might be worth asking about as they would help preserve the
wood.

I've had bad luck with the epoxy turning cloudy after a while and
ruining the look of the varnish.