|
Venice, FL bad water cop
On Feb 20, 8:46 am, "Keith" wrote:
There is a guy there that routinely hassles transiting boaters with no FL registration. Never mind that you can pass through FL without FL numbers, he will give you a ticket anyway. Here are some comments and people to write if this concerns you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----- As a soon-to-be Venice resident, who never knew anything about this "till now, I just sent a letter to the Venice Gondolier expressing my concern. I urge all of you to take a moment to contact and register a protest. Venice is too beautiful a stopover to be deemed not worth the trouble because of some capricious cop. Jeff Sharkey -----Original Message----- From: To: ; trawlers-and- Sent: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 4:58 PM Subject: T&T: Venice Water Patrol Bob, I had an experience with this fellow in 2002. Very rude and assertive. I started saying "Yes Sir" every other breath and that saved me a ticket. I was passing through Venice on my way to Maine with a federally registered boat but no state registration. At that time it was not possible in Texas, where I lived, to have a boat with both state and federal registration. He didn't care, saying "Well, you're not in Texas anymore and what I say goes." This fellow is nationally infamous. I am sure that he causes many boats to bypass Venice. Doc ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----- Here is the e-address to the mayor of Venice, Fl... Let him know what you think of overly aggressive water cops and the effect on his tourism industry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----- From: Matt Mattson Subject: GL: Venice Water Cop To: , , , , , , Cc: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: Mr. Fred Hammett, Mayor, City of Venice, FL Ms. Vicki Taylor, Vice Mayor, City of Venice, FL Mr. Bill Wilson, Council Member, City of Venice, FL Mr. Jim Woods, Council Member, City of Venice, FL Mr. John Simmonds, Council Member, City of Venice, FL Mr. John Moore, Council Member, City of Venice, FL Mr. Rick Tracy, Council Member, City of Venice, FL Dear Mr. Mayor & Council Members: Although I would love to stop, and refuel and eat at one of my favorite seafood places of all at the inlet, I will be passing your fine city on my trip and refuel and re-provision at Ft. Meyers before crossing the Okeechobee Waterway. The reason: the word is out (and I'm afraid confirmed) that a certain patrol officer (well known) harasses all who stop with out of state registrations. I do not know if you are aware, but there are a large volume of vessels that do the "Great Loop Cruise" each year (Great Lakes Mississippi Florida & across to the Intracoastal New York & back to the Great Lakes) and getting larger, but more and more will be bypassing Venice due to comments like this: This guy got me in 2002. I went down and FL registered my boat even though it was not allowed in Texas at the time. You don't talk back to this dude unless you want to be in a heap of trouble. I know what everyone calls him, but what is his name? Doc -- ANOTHER: I spoke to the Fl Revenue guys at their booth at the Miami Boat Show. They knew all about the guy in Venice and chuckled about his activities. I have a unique situation where I am a FL resident, bought the boat out of Florida, Documented it out of my vacation house in NC though it has never stayed there more than a few days, kept the boat out of Florida for 10 months, then bring it back for a few months each winter FL DOR guy said I never have to pay sales tax and since I am not in FL for more than 90 days I do not have to register it. He suggested that loopers keep a receipt from Mobile and environs to show to the Venice cop. In that case he knows that you are in Fl since a few days ago. _______ and many many more . . . I can't speak for the rest of the Great Loop List or the other Great Loop forums, but until this problem gets resolved, easier to buy my 700 gallons elsewhere so I'll keep motoring on down. Regards: Matt Mattson C-Dawg-E ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----- Copy of my letter to the Mayor. Thanks for the address. Dear Mr. Mayor, Last year we docked at the Crows Nest Marina for a two day stay. We love the Venice area and try to make it a regular stop a couple times a year. After we tied up and were relaxing in our salon we were paid a visit from the water patrol. He demanded documentation which, according to the laws, we didn't need. He didn't want to hear it and told us he could seize our boat etc. etc. After a long speech to us as well as our guests, very embarrassing and rude I might add, and giving us a ticket, he left. If it were not so late in the day and looking forward to a great meal at The Crows Nest we would have left. To make this long story short, I contacted our attorney and he sent a letter interpreting the law along with our check. End result, we received a refund for the ticket. We loved our stops at Venice but I think we will by-pass your lovely city until we Know the over zealous officer is gone. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----- I received the following email from a Venice Fl. News paper, and they would like to talk with some people who have had experience with the Water Nazi. If you have direct experience, please contact this gentleman,and maybe something can be done. In a message dated 2/19/2007 12:12:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, writes: Can you elaborate on the conduct you refer to? We'd like to make an inquiry about this but have little to go on. Specific actions would be easier to question. Bob Mudge Editor Venice Gondolier Sun THanks ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----- I personally think the last one is the most important... get the press on the case and you've got a leg up. If you've had any experiences with this a--hole, please write the paper, and also the city council.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I live in Sarasota just up the road from Venice and you're right, he is well know and not well liked nor respected. There also is/was a State DNR officer in the same area with the same attitude. Hopefully this letter writing campaign will correct this situation. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
Keith wrote:
There is a guy there that routinely hassles transiting boaters with no FL registration. Never mind that you can pass through FL without FL numbers, he will give you a ticket anyway. Here are some comments and people to write if this concerns you. I don't know if it's the same guy, but I got such a ticket in late 1993 and eventually had to show up in court in Sarasota. My ticket was deemed a criminal offense and although I was able to talk it down to a $30 court costs issue, it was indeed a real pain. -- Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 05:35:42 -0800, capt.bill11 wrote:
I live in Sarasota snip capt.bill11, You don't quote 50 lines of text in order to add your 5 or 6 lines at the bottom. Learn to snip. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On 20 Feb 2007 04:46:39 -0800, "Keith"
wrote: There is a guy there that routinely hassles transiting boaters with no FL registration. Never mind that you can pass through FL without FL numbers, he will give you a ticket anyway. Here are some comments and people to write if this concerns you. I have not seen any mention of the officers name or badge number. It is important to mention that in any letter of complaint, and it wouldn't hurt to mention it here. My other suggestion is to find out and publicize the mailing address of any civillian complaint review board that may be applicable in this case. Most police departments track civilian complaints and take action if a pattern of abusive behavior is noted. Also, complain directly to the marina management at the Crow's Nest. They are a large, well run operation and probably have some clout with the local chamber of commerce and political power structure. If you really feel strongly, hire a lawyer and explore various avenues of legal action. Local governments hate lawsuits. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On Feb 20, 10:18 am, "mr.b" wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 05:35:42 -0800, capt.bill11 wrote: I live in Sarasota snip capt.bill11, You don't quote 50 lines of text in order to add your 5 or 6 lines at the bottom. Learn to snip. Sure I do. In fact, I just did. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
mr.b wrote: On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 05:35:42 -0800, capt.bill11 wrote: I live in Sarasota snip capt.bill11, You don't quote 50 lines of text in order to add your 5 or 6 lines at the bottom. Learn to snip. Are you still using dial-up? |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:53:44 -0800, capt.bill11 wrote:
Sure I do. In fact, I just did. aheh-heh...that was a friendly reminder about how to use Usenet comedy boy. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
mr.b wrote: On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:53:44 -0800, capt.bill11 wrote: Sure I do. In fact, I just did. aheh-heh...that was a friendly reminder about how to use Usenet comedy boy. Maybe back in the day when people paid by the byte or only had very low bandwidth. It made a big difference then. But today it doesn't matter. So try moving out of the 80s and get something faster than a 300 baud modem. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
I am sure that some enterprising FL resident could also file Freedom
of Information Act requests for all the different stops. That may be what the paper will do. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
New information from a local the
____________________________ As I longtime active boater in Venice I would like to clarify some issues regarding water cops. We have at least 3 different water enforcement organizations, Venice Police, Sarasota County Sheriff, and Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. The unfortunate enforcement experiences some of you have experienced are from Tom Erickson of FFWCC and not from the VPD. I have personally discussed with the marine officer of VPD as we are working together on a harbor management plan for Venice. The city of Venice is looking for ways to improve our relationship with cruisers and make Venice more of a destination. Unfortunately we do not have any control over county or state law enforcement officials. _______________________________ Let the letter writing begin! |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 22:54:35 -0600, xorbit wrote:
snip try growing a brain *plonk* |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On 21 Feb 2007 03:54:47 -0800, "Keith"
wrote: The unfortunate enforcement experiences some of you have experienced are from Tom Erickson of FFWCC and not from the VPD. Finally we have the beginning of useful information. Now you need to find out something about the organizational structure of your local FFWCC and start filing complaints with his senior management. If I were stopped by FFWCC I would refuse to let them aboard my boat unless they had USCG with them or unless I was fishing. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
xorbit wrote:
Maybe back in the day when people paid by the byte or only had very low bandwidth. It made a big difference then. But today it doesn't matter. So try moving out of the 80s and get something faster than a 300 baud modem. The "modern world" includes many people using devices that are dialup or slower. For instance, a BlackBerry can be used to read Newsgroups, but even the latest 2.5G and 3G devices will likely revert to lowest speed in many cruising areas. And on handhelds there is often no news reader better than Google, which has to load the entire thread, or 25 messages at a time, with no kill file. Its really annoying to have to scroll past ten repeated copies of the same original post, only differing by some non-comment tagged on the bottom. Perhaps wannabe armchair cruisers like you always have the latest terrabaud service in their home, but those of us who actually go sailing have to make do with slower devices. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On Feb 21, 12:21 am, "mr.b" wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:53:44 -0800, capt.bill11 wrote: Sure I do. In fact, I just did. aheh-heh...that was a friendly reminder about how to use Usenet comedy boy. Yeah, I got the joke. But using Google groups sometimes I forget cause of the way it condences the quoted post to just show -show quoted text-. Hey, at least I didn't top post. :-) |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On Feb 21, 7:54 am, "Keith" wrote:
New information from a local the ____________________________ As I longtime active boater in Venice I would like to clarify some issues regarding water cops. We have at least 3 different water enforcement organizations, Venice Police, Sarasota County Sheriff, and Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. The unfortunate enforcement experiences some of you have experienced are from Tom Erickson of FFWCC and not from the VPD. I have personally discussed with the marine officer of VPD as we are working together on a harbor management plan for Venice. The city of Venice is looking for ways to improve our relationship with cruisers and make Venice more of a destination. Unfortunately we do not have any control over county or state law enforcement officials. _______________________________ Let the letter writing begin! OK, that makes sense. That is who I have always had a problem with. He was moved out of the Sarasota area because of his crap. I was running a boat documented in the Cayman Islands and he tried to tell me it needed to be registered in Florida. He even claimed he was filing a report with the Dept. of Rev.. Nothing, of course, came of it. I can only wonder at the amount of money he wastes in his pay and other peoples time by pulling this BS. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On Feb 21, 9:22 am, Jeff wrote:
xorbit wrote: Maybe back in the day when people paid by the byte or only had very low bandwidth. It made a big difference then. But today it doesn't matter. So try moving out of the 80s and get something faster than a 300 baud modem. snip Perhaps wannabe armchair cruisers like you always have the latest terrabaud service in their home, but those of us who actually go sailing have to make do with slower devices. But if you're cruising you've got all the time in the world. Right? :-) |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 06:44:54 -0800, capt.bill11 wrote:
On Feb 21, 12:21 am, "mr.b" wrote: On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:53:44 -0800, capt.bill11 wrote: Sure I do. In fact, I just did. aheh-heh...that was a friendly reminder about how to use Usenet comedy boy. Yeah, I got the joke. But using Google groups sometimes I forget cause of the way it condences the quoted post to just show -show quoted text-. Hey, at least I didn't top post. :-) my faith in you is restored...there is no longer a disturbance in the force |
Venice, FL bad water cop
capt.bill11 wrote:
On Feb 21, 7:54 am, "Keith" wrote: New information from a local the ____________________________ As I longtime active boater in Venice I would like to clarify some issues regarding water cops. We have at least 3 different water enforcement organizations, Venice Police, Sarasota County Sheriff, and Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. The unfortunate enforcement experiences some of you have experienced are from Tom Erickson of FFWCC and not from the VPD. I have personally discussed with the marine officer of VPD as we are working together on a harbor management plan for Venice. The city of Venice is looking for ways to improve our relationship with cruisers and make Venice more of a destination. Unfortunately we do not have any control over county or state law enforcement officials. _______________________________ Let the letter writing begin! OK, that makes sense. That is who I have always had a problem with. He was moved out of the Sarasota area because of his crap. I was running a boat documented in the Cayman Islands and he tried to tell me it needed to be registered in Florida. He even claimed he was filing a report with the Dept. of Rev.. Nothing, of course, came of it. I can only wonder at the amount of money he wastes in his pay and other peoples time by pulling this BS. The best way to take care of rogue cops is to make sure you have witnesses and file charges on them that you can make stick. At that point their LEO career is close to over. If you cannot do that, you may be able to sue them personally in State or Federal court for constitutional violations. Even if you do not win, their organzation will not like the bad press, and the time off for depositions and court apperances. Their wife will not like them having to hire an attorney to defend themselves, and they will not like all the added stress and cost of a lawsuit. If you cannot do that, you may be able to get their supervisors attention with a nicely worded letter from your attorney. Make sure you CC at least two levels of supervision, and the head of the organization they work for, and politely request that they let you know what they are going to do to handle the situation. In this case, it seems that a polite letter to the head of FFWCC, and cc'd to the Governor's office would be in order. Don W. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
"Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:18:50 GMT, Don W said: If you cannot do that, you may be able to sue them personally in State or Federal court for constitutional violations. Even if you do not win, their organzation will not like the bad press, and the time off for depositions and court apperances. Their wife will not like them having to hire an attorney to defend themselves, and they will not like all the added stress and cost of a lawsuit. A stupid idea for any number of reasons. Would you care to enumerate those reasons? Bad cops remain bad cops only because the public doesn't speak up. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
"Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:30:21 -0600, "KLC Lewis" said: Would you care to enumerate those reasons? Bad cops remain bad cops only because the public doesn't speak up. Let's just say that I've seen enough of these lawsuits brought on "principle" to know that the plaintiff's enthusiasm seldom survives the second bill from his lawyer. This really isn't a matter of "principle," it's a matter of a government official knowingly and deliberately violating the law. Repeatedly. Because he can "get away with it." |
Venice, FL bad water cop
I'd go the "you tube" route. Next time this asshole shows up .. film him in
action. Post it ,, Tell the local tv station about the posting .. Seems to work quite often. "Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:30:21 -0600, "KLC Lewis" said: Would you care to enumerate those reasons? Bad cops remain bad cops only because the public doesn't speak up. Let's just say that I've seen enough of these lawsuits brought on "principle" to know that the plaintiff's enthusiasm seldom survives the second bill from his lawyer. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
"Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:12:28 -0600, "KLC Lewis" said: This really isn't a matter of "principle," it's a matter of a government official knowingly and deliberately violating the law. Repeatedly. Because he can "get away with it." Hey, climb up on Rocinante and have a go at it. I heard there's a fella named Sancho who's looking for a job. Doesn't seem like much of a windmill to me. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On 21 Feb 2007 16:44:06 -0600, Dave wrote:
Remember, however, that you're an outsider, not a local. The dynamics may be very different. Yes, that's always a risk. This bozo may turn out be a cousin of the governor's wife or some other politically incestuous relationship. Still, if enough people make waves, something good might come of it. And if no one makes waves, it is guaranteed that nothing will change. You just have to take a chance that the system can be made to work sometimes. It is also a fact that it is much cheaper to initiate a lawsuit than it is to defend. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
"Keith" wrote in news:1172058887.793887.215510
@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com: Unfortunately we do not have any control over county or state law enforcement officials. Nonsense. Find out who bribes the state politicians with "campaign money" and simply turn off the tap until this joker has been sent packing. Start a letter writing campaign to your state politicians and ask them, pointedly, how you should vote in the next election..... Larry -- Vista has been out a week. Is Service Pack 1 ready yet? |
Venice, FL bad water cop
Wayne.B wrote in
: Yes, that's always a risk. This bozo may turn out be a cousin of the governor's wife or some other politically incestuous relationship. Still, if enough people make waves, something good might come of it. And if no one makes waves, it is guaranteed that nothing will change. You just have to take a chance that the system can be made to work sometimes. Wrong email with YouTube URL.....Send it to the Venice Chamber of Commerce, where the real power of the throne in any city resides. "Here's why we're never coming back to Venice, FL, and are telling everyone we see: (youtube url here). Larry -- Vista has been out a week. Is Service Pack 1 ready yet? |
Venice, FL bad water cop
Here's some good contact information:
_______________________________ The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is a creature of the Florida Constitution. It does not report directly to the Governor, but has its own executive powers. You can learn about the FWC at: http://myfwc.com/ There are a list of contact possibilities at: http://myfwc.com/Contact/ Perhaps most promising is a specific place to file a complaint about an employee. The guy causing all the problems was identified by name yesterday I believe. Go to the following place to file a complaint concerning his actions: http://myfwc.com/IG/complaint_form.htm While a single compliant probably won't have much impact, if those with experiences do take the time to complain at the correct spot, the shear numbers would require some investigation and, if appropriate, change in the way things are being done. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
I still say a good video camera is the best weapon against bad cops. Take a
look at some of the recent cases. Just the other night a cop was shown pulling a young lady out of her car and slamming her on the ground, pulling her by her hair .. etc. This was for a "speeding ticket". Keep a video camera at the ready. If every boat in Venice, FL had one onboard, and kept a watch out for this rogue cop. His behavior will take care of the rest. Just make sure whenever you see him that you wave your camera at him. Tell the local authorities that you all are watching him. Just that alone should be enough to get him a desk,,, in the cellar of the office. No police department wants to see their job embarrassed by a dope. Most boats ,, homes, just about everyone has a video camera ... time to use it. =========== "Keith" wrote in message oups.com... Here's some good contact information: _______________________________ The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is a creature of the Florida Constitution. It does not report directly to the Governor, but has its own executive powers. You can learn about the FWC at: http://myfwc.com/ There are a list of contact possibilities at: http://myfwc.com/Contact/ Perhaps most promising is a specific place to file a complaint about an employee. The guy causing all the problems was identified by name yesterday I believe. Go to the following place to file a complaint concerning his actions: http://myfwc.com/IG/complaint_form.htm While a single compliant probably won't have much impact, if those with experiences do take the time to complain at the correct spot, the shear numbers would require some investigation and, if appropriate, change in the way things are being done. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
"Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:55:25 -0500, Wayne.B said: It is also a fact that it is much cheaper to initiate a lawsuit than it is to defend. What is the basis for that conclusion? Do you really think any half way capable lawyer would take a suit like that on a contingency? Not likely. File in Small Claims Court. No lawyers allowed. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On 22 Feb 2007 09:22:01 -0600, Dave wrote:
It is also a fact that it is much cheaper to initiate a lawsuit than it is to defend. What is the basis for that conclusion? Filing a suit is almost a rubber stamp process for someone who knows what they are doing. The chance of success is immaterial in this particular instance since its primary goal is issue recognition. I believe it can be done by anyone with rudimentary knowledge of the process. There are self help web sites available that are applicable to many venues. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
"NE Sailboat" wrote in
news:pmhDh.6441$lo1.808@trndny05: Just the other night a cop was shown pulling a young lady out of her car and slamming her on the ground, pulling her by her hair .. etc. In Aaron Russo's documentary "America - Freedom to Fascism", there is a cop car camera video of a traffic stop in which a black lady, driving alone in a Ford Exploder cannot produce her driver's license. The cop is yelling at her at the top of his lungs to get out of the car. She is, obviously, terrified at his attitude. He threatens and finally does TAZER her through the open door to force her out of her SUV. She's jerked out by the high voltage electricity and writhing in pain, screaming, on the filthy road surface while he continues to scream at her to "get up, GET UP!" The second cop, who was on the other side of her SUV threatening her from the right side, comes around and the two cops haul her shaking, quaking body, unable to move from the Tazer, back towards the cop car. Every American needs to see this movie, and this video, as many times as it takes to put a stop to it. Driving with no license or under suspension is NO EXCUSE to be treated like a Nazi POW by ANY cops. It makes you want to shove that damned Tazer up the cops ass and pull the trigger, over and over..... Cops shouldn't be allowed to possess torture weaponry like this. An old lady in her 80's was killed by a Tazer in Rock Hill, SC, a couple of years back. She came into an old folks home in Rock Hill to see her friend, who had been moved to another home but this home wouldn't tell her where. She panicked and kept after them. They call the cops. The STUPID cop shot her with the Tazer and she died of the heart attack it caused, never finding her old friend to even say goodbye. THAT cop should be FIRST in line.... Aaron Russo produced big Hollywood films like "The Rose" with Bette Midler and this documentary came out of his curiosity about the Income Tax law and 16th Amendment, which was never ratified by the required number of states. It's an amazing film of FACT, doggedly followed up and documented, not some nutcase. It's an amazing film all Americans should see about our new Nazi state. PS - Income Tax is on Corporate Profits, not wages. There is no law taxing wages of anyone. Try to find it. It doesn't exist. Larry -- |
Venice, FL bad water cop
Wayne.B wrote:
On 22 Feb 2007 09:22:01 -0600, Dave wrote: It is also a fact that it is much cheaper to initiate a lawsuit than it is to defend. That may or may not be the case. It depends. In this case, it is certainly possible that the org would assign a staff lawyer to defend the rogue employee, resulting in little cost to him personally. It is also certain that having to get approval for the use of legal staff would raise awareness of the problem within the org--especially if it happened more than once. What is the basis for that conclusion? Filing a suit is almost a rubber stamp process for someone who knows what they are doing. The chance of success is immaterial in this particular instance since its primary goal is issue recognition. I believe it can be done by anyone with rudimentary knowledge of the process. There are self help web sites available that are applicable to many venues. It is not the filing of a lawsuit that costs a lot of money. It is the successful prosecution of it. To file a lawsuit only involves determining an appropriate venue (court), typing up the complaint, and filing it with the clerk of the court. It may also involve having the person you are sueing personally served with a certified copy of the complaint, but not always. In some cases the complaint can be served by certified mail. After that, it is showing up for docket call, the initial hearing, staying on top of any filings by the opponents and responding to them, etc. This also does not take a lot of time. The real costs start during discovery, when the plaintiffs lawyer has to put in days of time to set up and attend depositions, produce documents, go over the opponents documents, etc. More real costs occur during preparation for trial, and the trial itself, as that will also require days of the plaintiffs lawyer's time assuming that he wants to be successful. Been there, done that, and learned a lot. :/ Still, for anyone that is willing to spend a few thousand dollars to make a point, it is quite doable. It helps a lot if you have an attorney friend who will do the filings and not fluff your bill. Don W. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
"Don W" wrote in message . .. It is not the filing of a lawsuit that costs a lot of money. It is the successful prosecution of it. To file a lawsuit only involves determining an appropriate venue (court), typing up the complaint, and filing it with the clerk of the court. It may also involve having the person you are sueing personally served with a certified copy of the complaint, but not always. In some cases the complaint can be served by certified mail. After that, it is showing up for docket call, the initial hearing, staying on top of any filings by the opponents and responding to them, etc. This also does not take a lot of time. The real costs start during discovery, when the plaintiffs lawyer has to put in days of time to set up and attend depositions, produce documents, go over the opponents documents, etc. More real costs occur during preparation for trial, and the trial itself, as that will also require days of the plaintiffs lawyer's time assuming that he wants to be successful. Been there, done that, and learned a lot. :/ Still, for anyone that is willing to spend a few thousand dollars to make a point, it is quite doable. It helps a lot if you have an attorney friend who will do the filings and not fluff your bill. Don W. There are also various "Legal Aide Societies" around which do a lot of pro-bono work, using para-legals to assist in filing cases where the plaintiff cannot afford big guns (or, for that matter, pop guns). |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:41:49 -0500, Larry wrote:
"NE Sailboat" wrote in news:pmhDh.6441$lo1.808@trndny05: Just the other night a cop was shown pulling a young lady out of her car and slamming her on the ground, pulling her by her hair .. etc. In Aaron Russo's documentary "America - Freedom to Fascism", there is a cop car camera video of a traffic stop in which a black lady, driving alone in a Ford Exploder cannot produce her driver's license. The cop is yelling at her at the top of his lungs to get out of the car. She is, obviously, terrified at his attitude. He threatens and finally does TAZER her through the open door to force her out of her SUV. She's jerked out by the high voltage electricity and writhing in pain, screaming, on the filthy road surface while he continues to scream at her to "get up, GET UP!" The second cop, who was on the other side of her SUV threatening her from the right side, comes around and the two cops haul her shaking, quaking body, unable to move from the Tazer, back towards the cop car. Every American needs to see this movie, and this video, as many times as it takes to put a stop to it. Driving with no license or under suspension is NO EXCUSE to be treated like a Nazi POW by ANY cops. It makes you want to shove that damned Tazer up the cops ass and pull the trigger, over and over..... Cops shouldn't be allowed to possess torture weaponry like this. An old lady in her 80's was killed by a Tazer in Rock Hill, SC, a couple of years back. She came into an old folks home SNIP First to clear the air, I'm a cop. Second I agree with what's been written about the Venice, FL water (wanna' be) cop. It's the few like that that give us a bad name. You know, like "all teenagers are (insert whatever bad thing you want)". Third. While I have no info about the young lady pulled out nor the 80's lady, I do know about the Taser case above. It was 100% justified and proper. I'm sure Mr. Russo had his own agenda and selected the parts of the footage to further that agenda. Two cases. Remember the news footage with the very overweight guy? It showed a bunch of cops yelling and using some very odd baton strikes. No one seemed to notice there was a wall so one could only see the cops standing and pounding, but not the subject, who was lying down. Well, the unit (cop car) video showed the whole thing. The cops were striking the concrete with the batons to make noise. Not a one struck the subject. The reason, BTW, for yelling and generally making noise is that in stressful stiuations ones senses tend to dull, including hearing. That's also why nurse and doctors speak very close and loud to patients. Otherwise they simply will not hear. The second case was the news video of cops escorting a hancuffed teen. There was one on each side and one right behind the teen. The video showed the cop in back suddenly slaming the teen against a car hood and "beating on him". Some civil rights big guns came to town. They were shown the videos not shown on the news, apologized and left. What happened was the teen, who was handcuffed with his hands behind as SOP, reached back and grabbed the cop by the NUTS! No sound on the news video, but he was yelling to "Let go!" as he was closed-fist-edge-of-hand striking him on the brachial plexus clavicle notch (On top of shoulder near neck). This is a "pressure point" that will temorarily paralyze the arm on that side, with no lasting effects. The teen let go and that was the end of it. As far as Tasers being "torture weaponry", that's a bunch of bull. We have to get Tasered as part of the certification to use one. Yes Virginia, we have to go through a course and get Tasered to be able to carry/use one - they don't just hand us one and say go shoot somebody. The Taser is high voltage at very low current. About the same voltage and even lower current than those old joke "books" that when you opened shocked you. The way it does it's job is that it's pulsed at a proper sequence to block out and override the electrical impluses from the brain that goes through the nerves and controls our muscles. It stays on for 5 seconds, then turns off. It can be turned on again if necesary. The 5 seconds is enough time to handcuff the subject. It is sometimes painful and sometimes not, but it will usually make you fall down (you can't control your muscles to balance) and it will make your arms and legs flop around most of the time (sending pulses though the nerves) and it usually makes you make um-um-um noises and sometimes even scream. We had the whole range of reactions from officers in our class, including one guy who asked, "When are you going to turn the damn thing on?" when hit. Oh yeah. The Taser keeps a record of when, how long and how many times it was on. There have been accusations of Tasers killing people, usually due to heart attack. The news types really jump on this. There has never been one proven case. The news types suddenly don't seem to be interested anymore. The Taser is one of the best, most humane, intermediate (non-deadly) weapons ever made (other intermediate weapons are the baton (nightstick) and chemical spray. Either of which are a lot more painful. Tasers and the others can only be used if the threat to the officer is injury or to prevent the subject from injuring him/herself. Oh yeah. In the case of that "obviously terrified" black lady, she threated to punch the officer and did take a swing at him. I've taken down 6'2" guys who became suddenly "obviously terrifed" after they ate some concrete and were handcuffed. It always amazes me when someone who has been cussin' me out, threatening to kill me and then doing his best to do so, suddenly whines that I hurt him, he didn't do nothin', how come I threw him down on the ground, the handcuffs are hurting him, etc. Yes there are cops who should be living in jail instead of bringing people there. They are rare and they will be found out and dealt with. All departments have an IA, Internal Affairs, division and those guys are very vigilant. If you're wronged, report it. It may seem nothing is being done, but it is. In some cases there's not enough solid evidence but you can bet that officer will be watched and evidence will mount up over time if he's dirty. Rick PS: If someone tries to "stick a Taser" up my ass, I'll switch to my Sig. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
Rick Morel wrote:
SNIP First to clear the air, I'm a cop. Second I agree with what's been written about the Venice, FL water (wanna' be) cop. It's the few like that that give us a bad name. You know, like "all teenagers are (insert whatever bad thing you want)". Yep, its the small percentage bad cops that screw it up for the vast majority of professional LEO's who are trying to do a good job. That's why the departments should go after them and make examples out of them. snip a bunch of stuff As far as Tasers being "torture weaponry", that's a bunch of bull. We have to get Tasered as part of the certification to use one. Yes Virginia, we have to go through a course and get Tasered to be able to carry/use one - they don't just hand us one and say go shoot somebody. In Austin, the police recruits have to be tasered, and shot in the face with MACE. Not fun, but they all go through it before they get a badge. snip Yes there are cops who should be living in jail instead of bringing people there. They are rare and they will be found out and dealt with. All departments have an IA, Internal Affairs, division and those guys are very vigilant. If you're wronged, report it. It may seem nothing is being done, but it is. In some cases there's not enough solid evidence but you can bet that officer will be watched and evidence will mount up over time if he's dirty. Thanks for presenting the other side of the story. Rick It does seem to me that our society is in an unfortunate trend of becoming more polarized and more militant. Our "war on drugs" which started about 26 years ago is responsible for a lot of it, but there are other factors at work as well. Don W. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
Gogarty wrote:
In article , says... On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:31:02 -0600, "KLC Lewis" said: Doesn't seem like much of a windmill to me. That's what the knight of the sad countenance thought too. Been reading Cervantes lately, have you? By the way, you're right about the lawyer's bill. Only the wealthy or obsessed can afford to press a suit on principle, unless the principle is broad enough to bring in other parties who will fund the litigation. Litigation is certainly not for the homeless, or those living paycheck to paycheck, but it also is not as expensive as most people believe--even if you use an attorney (which I recommend). There is a wide range of fees charged by different attorneys out there, and a lot of attorneys in the yellow pages. Also, since you are litigating to make a point, and not likely to recover much money from a state employee even if you won a judgement, you can offer an early settlement based on an agreed order that the LEO in question cease his harassing behavior. All in all, I could see this whole exercise not costing more than $6K under the right circumstances, and resulting in a quite favorable outcome. Some people spend more than that to fill up their boat. When and if this guy runs into the wrong person he'll find out about that. Of course, it could also cost a lot more than $6K, and not result in anything favorable. That's the fun part about courtroom roulette. Don W. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
On 22 Feb 2007 13:19:01 -0600, Dave wrote:
Answering a complaint like that is even easier. "Defendant admits he is a resident of ___ and denies each and every other allegation of the complaint." Now what are you going to do? Call my son the lawyer of course. Now what are you going to do? :-) |
Venice, FL bad water cop
Rick Morel wrote in
: The Taser is high voltage at very low current. About the same voltage and even lower current than those old joke "books" that when you opened shocked you. The way it does it's job is that it's pulsed at a proper sequence to block out and override the electrical impluses from the brain that goes through the nerves and controls our muscles. It stays on for 5 seconds, then turns off. It can be turned on again if necesary. The 5 seconds is enough time to handcuff the subject. It is sometimes painful and sometimes not, but it will usually make you fall down (you can't control your muscles to balance) and it will make your arms and legs flop around most of the time (sending pulses though the nerves) and it usually makes you make um-um-um noises and sometimes even scream. We had the whole range of reactions from officers in our class, including one guy who asked, "When are you going to turn the damn thing on?" when hit. Oh yeah. The Taser keeps a record of when, how long and how many times it was on. The Taser works on the same technology as the defibrillator machine, pulsed current through muscle tissue. Its output is measured on watt- seconds, as is the defib. My Tesla coil is high voltage at low current, somewhere around 800KV on a dry day at 1-2 microamps. It causes no muscle spasms, only slight RF burns if the arc touches your skin. Feels like a pin prick from the burning, not the current. In order to cause muscle spasms in humans, you need 20-40 milliamps, a good shock from a defective 115VAC appliance comes to mind. To cause muscle lockups, like the Taser produces, you need around 60-80 ma. Death occurs at from 100-200ma, depending on the victim's physical condition no cop is licensed to diagnose. Does your cop training REALLY tell you to Tase us at traffic stops if our "Papers Please" response to the storm troopers is insufficient, our taxes not properly paid? The lady on the cop video had not attacked the officers in any manner. She was sitting in her driver's seat, terrified, and refusing to exit her vehicle for fear of being beaten up, like CNN shows on TV quite often. Being alone and indefensible against a male attack by a cop so mad he's screaming at her, one can only imagine her state of fear at this screaming madman. I think NOT....This isn't Nazi-occupied France. ....Yet. Larry -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEJmc...elated&search= |
Venice, FL bad water cop
Hey Dave ,,, the millions of dollars that was paid out after a lawsuit
should be enough to tell you that there are bad cops. There is injustice in America.. But who really cares. I'm more interested in where the junky Anna Nicole will be burried. Circuit Judge Larry Seidlin, my new hero.. He singlehandedly has shown what a total joke the profession of a lawyer is. I'd rather dig **** out of a sewer than call myself a lawyer. Thank you Judge Larry! ================================================== === "Dave" wrote in message ... On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:21:26 -0600, Rick Morel said: I'm sure Mr. Russo had his own agenda and selected the parts of the footage to further that agenda. I think you hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, there seem to be a number of folks like Larry who think Hollywood's version of the world is reality. |
Venice, FL bad water cop
Wayne ,, should have called Judge Larry Seidlin ... he the man.
If this guy can become a judge ,, what does it say for the guy "who didn't get the job"? Holy **** ,,,, lawyers are the biggest morons on the planet. Their whole profession is a Judge Larry Joke! ================================================== ======================== "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On 22 Feb 2007 13:19:01 -0600, Dave wrote: Answering a complaint like that is even easier. "Defendant admits he is a resident of ___ and denies each and every other allegation of the complaint." Now what are you going to do? Call my son the lawyer of course. Now what are you going to do? :-) |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:58 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com