Venice, FL bad water cop
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:27:00 -0500, Larry wrote:

The Taser works on the same technology as the defibrillator machine,
pulsed current through muscle tissue. Its output is measured on watt-
seconds, as is the defib.

No it doesn't. No it isn't.

My Tesla coil is high voltage at low current, somewhere around 800KV on a
dry day at 1-2 microamps. It causes no muscle spasms, only slight RF
burns if the arc touches your skin. Feels like a pin prick from the
burning, not the current. In order to cause muscle spasms in humans, you
need 20-40 milliamps, a good shock from a defective 115VAC appliance
comes to mind. To cause muscle lockups, like the Taser produces, you
need around 60-80 ma. Death occurs at from 100-200ma, depending on the
victim's physical condition no cop is licensed to diagnose.

A Tesla coil is totally different. It puts out RF. AC skin effect
keeps the current on the surface of the skin. It WILL burn you, as you
said above about "slight RF burns". A Taser doesn't cause muscle
spasms for shock, it "masks" the normal electrical signals in all
living things and superimposes other signals.

Some specs from spec sheets:

Taser:

1. Output characteristics:
Wave form: Complex shaped pulse
Pulse rate: 19 PPS
Pulse duration: 100 microseconds
The trigger activates a 5-second cycle. The cycle can be
stopped by placing the safety lever in the “S” position.
Peak open circuit arcing voltage: 50,000 V
Peak loaded voltage: 1,200 V
Current: 2.1 mA average
Energy per pulse: Nominal at main capacitors: 0.36 joules
Delivered into load: 0.07 joules
Power rating: Nominal at main capacitors: 7 watts
Delivered into load: 1.3 watts



AED Defibrillator:

The Data-PakTM battery will operate the Samaritan® AED for over 12
hours of continuous ECG monitoring or 120 shocks at 200 Joules.


Note the current and loaded voltage. Yes it's 50,000V open air, but
drops to 1,200 V under load. The load is the human.

Also note the energy delivered into that human is 0.07 Joules and the
defib is 200 Joules - 2,857 times as much power! That is two thousand
eight hundred fifty seven. Guess the EMT's also go around killing
people, huh?


Does your cop training REALLY tell you to Tase us at traffic stops if our
"Papers Please" response to the storm troopers is insufficient, our taxes
not properly paid? The lady on the cop video had not attacked the
officers in any manner. She was sitting in her driver's seat, terrified,
and refusing to exit her vehicle for fear of being beaten up, like CNN
shows on TV quite often. Being alone and indefensible against a male
attack by a cop so mad he's screaming at her, one can only imagine her
state of fear at this screaming madman.

I think NOT....This isn't Nazi-occupied France.

...Yet.

Larry

No, our training makes it quite clear when and how much force to use.
The cop wasn't mad at all, he was using proper procedure under the
circumstances - someone threatening him and in a very excited and
agitated state. Same as an EMT, nurse or doctor would have. Okay, not
as loudly, but different circumstances. Maybe you should see if you
can find the _COMPLETE_, unedited version of the video.

Rick

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 21:53:41 GMT, "NE Sailboat" said:

I'm more interested in where the junky Anna Nicole will be burried.

Sorta goes along with believing in Hollywood's version of the world. I can
think of few things less important than where Anna Nicole will be buried.

Like the cast of thousands who might be the father of the baby... :-)


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:39:31 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
said:

There are also various "Legal Aide Societies" around which do a lot of
pro-bono work, using para-legals to assist in filing cases where the
plaintiff cannot afford big guns (or, for that matter, pop guns).

Spare us.

Excellent rebuttal, counselor.

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

"Rick Morel" wrote in message
...

No, our training makes it quite clear when and how much force to use.
The cop wasn't mad at all, he was using proper procedure under the
circumstances - someone threatening him and in a very excited and
agitated state. Same as an EMT, nurse or doctor would have. Okay, not
as loudly, but different circumstances. Maybe you should see if you
can find the _COMPLETE_, unedited version of the video.

Rick

Funny how we are always told about these "complete, unedited versions" of
the videos, but hardly ever see them.

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:46:45 -0600, Rick Morel
wrote:

1. Output characteristics:
Wave form: Complex shaped pulse
Pulse rate: 19 PPS
Pulse duration: 100 microseconds
The trigger activates a 5-second cycle. The cycle can be
stopped by placing the safety lever in the “S” position.
Peak open circuit arcing voltage: 50,000 V
Peak loaded voltage: 1,200 V
Current: 2.1 mA average

Rick, there's a problem with your statistics centered around 2.1 mA
**average**.

I assume they mean the average over 1 second or greater since that
would be typical.

You've got a pulsed output at 19 pulses per second, 100 microseconds
per pulse, giving a total "on" duration of 1.9 milliseconds per
second, or roughly 1/500th of a second. That implies a peak current
of close to 1 amp in each pulse. 1 amp continuously will cause death
very quickly which is why they are pulsing it.

None of this has anything to do with boats or cruising of course.

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:54:10 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:46:45 -0600, Rick Morel
wrote:

1. Output characteristics:
Wave form: Complex shaped pulse
Pulse rate: 19 PPS
Pulse duration: 100 microseconds
The trigger activates a 5-second cycle. The cycle can be
stopped by placing the safety lever in the “S” position.
Peak open circuit arcing voltage: 50,000 V
Peak loaded voltage: 1,200 V
Current: 2.1 mA average

Rick, there's a problem with your statistics centered around 2.1 mA
**average**.

I assume they mean the average over 1 second or greater since that
would be typical.

You've got a pulsed output at 19 pulses per second, 100 microseconds
per pulse, giving a total "on" duration of 1.9 milliseconds per
second, or roughly 1/500th of a second. That implies a peak current
of close to 1 amp in each pulse. 1 amp continuously will cause death
very quickly which is why they are pulsing it.

Well, the specs are direct from the manufacturer. As I recall from the
class "average" in that spec refers to the average under load, which
of course varies depending on the persons conductivity and where
he/she was hit by the barbs.

BTW 1 Joule = 1 Watt Second (how convenient!). So that .07 Joules is
..07 Watt Seconds with is .058 MA or 58 Micro Amps in a second, which
if delivered in 1.9 milliseconds per second would be 29.16 MA. Using
that logic. Of course the waveform is not a constant amplitude square
wave. I'm trying to remember, but it did have a specific waveform and
does vary.

None of this has anything to do with boats or cruising of course.

No, but it's almost as much fun as dragging a little old 80 year old
lady out of a car, throwing her onto the dirty concrete, popping her a
few times with the baton, spray her with OC pepper spray, then
Tasering her, all the while the unit cam is running so we can play it
back at the station over and over.

OF COURSE I'M KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!

Rick

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

"Rick Morel" wrote in message
...

Well, the specs are direct from the manufacturer. As I recall from the
class "average" in that spec refers to the average under load, which
of course varies depending on the persons conductivity and where
he/she was hit by the barbs.

BTW 1 Joule = 1 Watt Second (how convenient!). So that .07 Joules is
.07 Watt Seconds with is .058 MA or 58 Micro Amps in a second, which
if delivered in 1.9 milliseconds per second would be 29.16 MA. Using
that logic. Of course the waveform is not a constant amplitude square
wave. I'm trying to remember, but it did have a specific waveform and
does vary.

None of this has anything to do with boats or cruising of course.

No, but it's almost as much fun as dragging a little old 80 year old
lady out of a car, throwing her onto the dirty concrete, popping her a
few times with the baton, spray her with OC pepper spray, then
Tasering her, all the while the unit cam is running so we can play it
back at the station over and over.

OF COURSE I'M KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!

Rick

Rick, one of the things that concerns me is from your previous post in which
you said that, during Tazer training, some of the cops made comments such as
"When are you going to turn it on?" while others were left screaming.
Doesn't this indicate that the impact of being Tazed is wholly subjective,
and that what might be a mild tickle to one person might be sheer agony to
another? Seems to me that by calling the Tazer a "safe" way to enforce
compliance from us mere Citizens, it is inevitable that some of us will, in
fact, be "tortured," and someone, sooner or later, is going to be killed.
But if it prevents a cop from getting bruised, I guess that's a small price
to pay.

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:34:39 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

Funny how we are always told about these "complete, unedited versions" of
the videos, but hardly ever see them.

Says a lot about our news media, doesn't it?

Well, join the force! You'll get to see them along with legal lessons,
use of force, getting taken down and handcuffed, controlled with a
wrist lock (Owwwww, Ai-yi-yiiiii!) and maybe choke hold, hit with a
baton (with padding and a good chance of the instructer doing it for
real to one or two to show the effects), sprayed with pepper spray and
tear gas and tasered. Oh yeah and get loads of pain from the pressure
point part of the class.

Otherwise, maybe you could file a suit for the TV station to release
all footage to you. Don't think it would work though.

Rick

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

"Rick Morel" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:34:39 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

Funny how we are always told about these "complete, unedited versions" of
the videos, but hardly ever see them.

Says a lot about our news media, doesn't it?

Well, join the force! You'll get to see them along with legal lessons,
use of force, getting taken down and handcuffed, controlled with a
wrist lock (Owwwww, Ai-yi-yiiiii!) and maybe choke hold, hit with a
baton (with padding and a good chance of the instructer doing it for
real to one or two to show the effects), sprayed with pepper spray and
tear gas and tasered. Oh yeah and get loads of pain from the pressure
point part of the class.

Otherwise, maybe you could file a suit for the TV station to release
all footage to you. Don't think it would work though.

Rick

Not trying to fight with you, but don't you think "if you want to see them,
join the cops" is a rather lousy response? Kinda smells of "secret
evidence," if you ask me.

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:29:34 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

Rick, one of the things that concerns me is from your previous post in which
you said that, during Tazer training, some of the cops made comments such as
"When are you going to turn it on?" while others were left screaming.
Doesn't this indicate that the impact of being Tazed is wholly subjective,
and that what might be a mild tickle to one person might be sheer agony to
another? Seems to me that by calling the Tazer a "safe" way to enforce
compliance from us mere Citizens, it is inevitable that some of us will, in
fact, be "tortured," and someone, sooner or later, is going to be killed.
But if it prevents a cop from getting bruised, I guess that's a small price
to pay.

Well, pain is one of the concepts behind controlling the subject. In
fact there's a whole class on "pain compliance". In surveys of
officers going through the training every one of them, even the Tased
screaming ones (remember the screaming and flopping is a result of the
electrical stimulation, not from pain or concious effort), stated if
given a choice they would choose being Tased over OC spray. Man, Taser
me 10 times in a row instead of OC in the eyes!!! Now that is some BAD
stuff, but even with OC a very few are totally unaffected and some are
really hurting and suffer physical "burn" injury. OC is OleoCapasin
(SP?), or pepper in a solution. Some sprays are OC and CS (tear gas).
Let me see if I remember right. The hottest Jalpino pepper (I KNOW SP
is wrong) is 5,000 S Units; OTC spray for civilians is 500,000 SU and
law enforcement is up to 5,000,000 SU. (The latter two might be 50,000
and 500,000???) Anyway it's strong stuff.

Getting hit with a baton hurts pretty much too. Hurts some more than
others. BTW, batons are used only on specific strike pressure points
to disable, not to injure. A fist in the gut will disable some in
agonizing pain, while others will laugh it off. And everything in
between. Pain itself is wholly subjective. Thing is pain is a
byproduct of the Taser and it's designed to minimize that pain as much
as possible. We all wish there was a spray you could use from up to 30
feet or so that would instantly "knock out" someone painlessly for at
least 10 seconds. Maybe one day....

I've got to protest the term "tortured". Torture is deliberatly
inflicting extreme pain for gain, ie to get information, or for the
torturer's pleasure or for punishment. Torture is illegal in the US
and most places.

As above pain is a tool, however it's administered. A tool that is
only used when necessary and then only as much pain as required. The
Taser in most cases is the least painful. Recovery is instant after
the power goes off, unlike spray which requires decontaminating. It's
not used on "mere citizens", it's used on people who are presenting a
danger to the officer, others or themselves. Cops, just like everyone
else, don't like "getting bruised". Also getting broken, stabbed,
concussed, blunt trama'ed or killed. Our goal is to go home at the end
of shift.

Tasers have saved lives. Of the subject. In cases where an officer, in
multiple officer situations, had a Taser and the subject threatened
and/or acted upon deadly force. ie the subject had a knife or a
baseball bat or an axe. No Taser = gun and use of deadly force.

I'm not saying Tasers are perfect or ideal. They're good tools in the
proper situation, just as are all the tools of the trade. You'd no
more use a Taser on a falling down drunk than you'd use a storm jib on
a 5-knot day.

Gotta' go for a bit. I've got to hit work in the middle of the night
and do a bunch of overtime.

Rick

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:14:28 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

Not trying to fight with you, but don't you think "if you want to see them,
join the cops" is a rather lousy response? Kinda smells of "secret
evidence," if you ask me.

Sorry. I was just being flippant to a large degree.

Truth is though that it really is "secret evidence". Well, not secret
but unavailable for public release. Some of it is obtained from the
news media, which aren't releasing it either except for those parts
they want to. The media are within their rights. If the case, whatever
it may be, were to go to court the footage could be shown and then
become part of public record. Usually just showing it to the attorney
is enough. I'm not saying any of it is right or wrong. It's just the
way things are.

Some of it you wouldn't want to see on the news. A hostage getting her
throat slit; the flying brain matter of a cop, shot as he walked up to
a car he stopped to let the driver know he had a tailight out. Things
like that.

Rick

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

Dave wrote in news:mptrt25h0ijc5pp6pv0c7airtqso4152m7@
4ax.com:

I think you hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, there seem to be a
number of folks like Larry who think Hollywood's version of the world is
reality.



Until you view the documentary and hear the excuses and answers directly
from the various agencies and bureaucrats, past and present, you should not
pass judgement on Mr Russo. He does have an agenda, paying illegal taxes.

Watch it for yourself. It's on YouTube.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsZO6...elated&search=

Larry
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEJmc...elated&search=

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

Rick Morel wrote in
:

1. Output characteristics:
Wave form: Complex shaped pulse
Pulse rate: 19 PPS
Pulse duration: 100 microseconds
The trigger activates a 5-second cycle. The cycle can be
stopped by placing the safety lever in the "S" position.
Peak open circuit arcing voltage: 50,000 V
Peak loaded voltage: 1,200 V
Current: 2.1 mA average
Energy per pulse: Nominal at main capacitors: 0.36 joules
Delivered into load: 0.07 joules
Power rating: Nominal at main capacitors: 7 watts
Delivered into load: 1.3 watts


19 pps x 5 second = 95 pulses x .36 joules/pulse = 34 joules EVERY time
you press the trigger for 5 seconds. Look closely and time the number of
times the lady in the SUV was jolted when she was laying stunned on the
ground. How many joules of shock was she subjected to...150? That's
only 5 jerks on the trigger in 25 seconds.


This is from the specs on a Philips defibrillator machine used by
hospitals. For a patient to be a "50 ohm load", you'd probably have to
saturate him with salt water. Take 2 squares of aluminum foil the size
of defib pads and hook them to your ohmmeter. Try to get it to read LESS
than 5000 to 10000 ohms on your sweaty skin. As resistance increases,
the jolt delivered drops, dramatically. Even then, at much less than 150
joules, the dead body jumps right off the table!

Model Number 861304
How Supplied Defibrillator, battery (1), SMART Pads II (1 set), Owner
Manual, Quick Reference Guide.
Waveform Truncated Exponential Biphasic. Waveform parameters adjusted as
a function of each patient’s impedance.
Energy Single energy output:
Adult: nominal 150 Joules into a 50-ohm load
Infant/Child: nominal 50 Joules into a 50-ohm load.

Protocol Device follows preconfigured settings. Defibrillation and CPR
protocol can be customized using HeartStart Event Review or HeartStart
Configure Software.

My statement stands....BOTH DEVICES are delivering a PULSED jolt of
electricity designed to STUN human muscles into CONTRACTING, which both
do very well.

Larry
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEJmc...elated&search=

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

Rick Morel wrote in
:

Also note the energy delivered into that human is 0.07 Joules and the
defib is 200 Joules - 2,857 times as much power! That is two thousand
eight hundred fifty seven. Guess the EMT's also go around killing
people, huh?


You only read the part of the specs you wanted to see. .07 joules PER
PULSE X THE NUMBER OF PULSES OVER 5 SECONDS TIMES THE NUMBER OF TIMES YOU
PULL THAT DAMNED TRIGGER SENDING ANOTHER GROUP OF 5 SECOND JOLTS INTO THE
VICTIM.

Stupid, you can HEAR THE DAMNED THING PULSING AT 19PPS!

Larry
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEJmc...elated&search=

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

Larry wrote:
Dave wrote in news:mptrt25h0ijc5pp6pv0c7airtqso4152m7@
4ax.com:


I think you hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, there seem to be a
number of folks like Larry who think Hollywood's version of the world is
reality.




Until you view the documentary and hear the excuses and answers directly
from the various agencies and bureaucrats, past and present, you should not
pass judgement on Mr Russo. He does have an agenda, paying illegal taxes.

Watch it for yourself. It's on YouTube.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsZO6...elated&search=

Larry

Documentary? Really? You call THAT a documentary? From the real
source of all unbiased global facts - Youtube?

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

Seems to me that by calling the Tazer a "safe" way to enforce
compliance from us mere Citizens, it is inevitable that some of us
will, in fact, be "tortured," and someone, sooner or later, is going
to be killed.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...t_x.htm?csp=34
"PHOENIX (AP) — There were 103 Taser stun gun-related deaths in the
United States and Canada between June 2001 and March 2005, according to
an Amnesty International report released Friday.
In the first three months of this year, there were 13 Taser-related
deaths — compared with six during the same period last year, the report
said.

The stun guns have been touted as less lethal than other ways of subduing
combative people in high-risk situations, but Tasers have come under
increasing scrutiny as a number of deaths have been blamed, at least
partially, on the devices.

"No confrontation is risk free. The Taser is the safest way to end
violent confrontations for law enforcement," Taser International Inc.
President Tom Smith said Thursday."

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/sp...les/0718taser-
main18.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/j...guns_9-15.html
http://www.democracynow.org/article..../02/25/1455244

Oh, hell, put Taser Deaths into Google and see for yourselves.
How many hundreds do the cops have to kill before it becomes a "lethal
weapon"?

Larry
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEJmc...elated&search=

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

Rick Morel wrote in
:

Gotta' go for a bit. I've got to hit work in the middle of the night
and do a bunch of overtime.


And, people, here is where we're headed.....compliments of FEMA

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...entration+camp

Larry
--

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

On 22 Feb 2007 13:19:01 -0600, Dave wrote:

Answering a complaint like that is even easier. "Defendant admits he is a
resident of ___ and denies each and every other allegation of the
complaint."

Of course answering the complaint is easy. But to
even get that answer typed up and filed, someone
had to either hire an attorney, or get a staff one
assigned to their case.

Hiring an attorney to defend yourself usually
incurs expense, which may require you to explain
it to your spouse. On a state employee wage it
might even be painful.

Getting a staff attorney assigned to your case
requires a certain amount of institutional review
of the complaint, and upper management attention.
If several cases are pending against the same
employee it's not going to look good for the employee.

What are you going to do? Set it for hearing and
start working on the evidence from the witnesses.
Request production of documents for any other
complaints or disciplinary actions filed against
the employee, do a background investigation on the
employee, and schedule him and his direct
supervisor for depositions.

When that staff attorney deposes your witnesses
and finds out that you've really built a case,
that employee is going to be in a lot of trouble.

And all of the above is assuming that he isn't
guilty of some criminal offense like assault, or
official oppression which may be the case.

Don W.

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

So my question is why in hell do you all think that this Venice FL
cop-criminal should be brought up on civil charges.
If he's obviously pursuing illegal activity, shouldnt he (and the
subsequent magistrate who's benefitting from all the 'lucre') be
brought up on CRIMINAL charges .... fraud, bunco, etc. ???? This is
fraud/extortion pure and simple .... and as such is a CRIMINAL
activity.
What think you all?


In article , KLC Lewis
wrote:

"Don W" wrote in message
. ..

It is not the filing of a lawsuit that costs a lot of money. It is the
successful prosecution of it. To file a lawsuit only involves determining
an appropriate venue (court), typing up the complaint, and filing it with
the clerk of the court. It may also involve having the person you are
sueing personally served with a certified copy of the complaint, but not
always. In some cases the complaint can be served by certified mail.

After that, it is showing up for docket call, the initial hearing, staying
on top of any filings by the opponents and responding to them, etc. This
also does not take a lot of time.

The real costs start during discovery, when the plaintiffs lawyer has to
put in days of time to set up and attend depositions, produce documents,
go over the opponents documents, etc.

More real costs occur during preparation for trial, and the trial itself,
as that will also require days of the plaintiffs lawyer's time assuming
that he wants to be successful.

Been there, done that, and learned a lot. :/

Still, for anyone that is willing to spend a few thousand dollars to make
a point, it is quite doable. It helps a lot if you have an attorney
friend who will do the filings and not fluff your bill.

Don W.


There are also various "Legal Aide Societies" around which do a lot of
pro-bono work, using para-legals to assist in filing cases where the
plaintiff cannot afford big guns (or, for that matter, pop guns).

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

"xorbit" wrote in message
...


Larry wrote:
Dave wrote in news:mptrt25h0ijc5pp6pv0c7airtqso4152m7@
4ax.com:


I think you hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, there seem to be a
number of folks like Larry who think Hollywood's version of the world is
reality.




Until you view the documentary and hear the excuses and answers directly
from the various agencies and bureaucrats, past and present, you should
not pass judgement on Mr Russo. He does have an agenda, paying illegal
taxes.

Watch it for yourself. It's on YouTube.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsZO6...elated&search=

Larry

Documentary? Really? You call THAT a documentary? From the real source
of all unbiased global facts - Youtube?




It was uploaded to YouTube by someone who had a copy. It was not created FOR
YouTube. Sheesh.

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

Seems to me that by calling the Tazer a "safe" way to enforce
compliance from us mere Citizens, it is inevitable that some of us
will, in fact, be "tortured," and someone, sooner or later, is going
to be killed.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...t_x.htm?csp=34
"PHOENIX (AP) — There were 103 Taser stun gun-related deaths in the
United States and Canada between June 2001 and March 2005, according to
an Amnesty International report released Friday.
In the first three months of this year, there were 13 Taser-related
deaths — compared with six during the same period last year, the report
said.

The stun guns have been touted as less lethal than other ways of subduing
combative people in high-risk situations, but Tasers have come under
increasing scrutiny as a number of deaths have been blamed, at least
partially, on the devices.

"No confrontation is risk free. The Taser is the safest way to end
violent confrontations for law enforcement," Taser International Inc.
President Tom Smith said Thursday."

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/sp...les/0718taser-
main18.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/j...guns_9-15.html
http://www.democracynow.org/article..../02/25/1455244

Oh, hell, put Taser Deaths into Google and see for yourselves.
How many hundreds do the cops have to kill before it becomes a "lethal
weapon"?

Larry
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEJmc...elated&search=

If the cops say it's "the safest way to end violent confrontations FOR LAW
ENFORCEMENT," then that's gotta be true. Especially in a Police State.

Thanks for the Aaron Russo link, by the way. That's the first time I've ever
watched an entire film on YouTube, but worth every minute of it.

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

Larry wrote:
Rick Morel wrote in
:


Gotta' go for a bit. I've got to hit work in the middle of the night
and do a bunch of overtime.



And, people, here is where we're headed.....compliments of FEMA

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...entration+camp

Larry

Black stealth helicopters....

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

Rich Hampel wrote:
So my question is why in hell do you all think that this Venice FL
cop-criminal should be brought up on civil charges.
If he's obviously pursuing illegal activity, shouldnt he (and the
subsequent magistrate who's benefitting from all the 'lucre') be
brought up on CRIMINAL charges .... fraud, bunco, etc. ???? This is
fraud/extortion pure and simple .... and as such is a CRIMINAL
activity.
What think you all?

Well, you can try to file criminal charges, but to
do that you've got to work with a local district
attorney. Also, you'd have to research Florida
statutes to see which ones he violated.

To haul him before a judge in civil court all you
have to do is get the complaint drawn up and file
it with the court. That and start issuing press
releases to the media...

Don W.

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

On 23 Feb 2007 08:37:01 -0600, Dave wrote:

Looks like our knight of the sad countenance has found his Sancho Panza.
Have at it, guys.

Dave, so what's your recommendation for how to fix this issue with our
friend in Venice?

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

Hey Dave ,, I would hire Florida circuit court Judge Larry Seidlin of
Florida. That guy is the "man". He would take care of the widow, the kids,
the everything. If Judge Larry can't do it, no one can.

Professor Leach? You can't make this up. Leach ,, as in ... 1. (v.) To
flow or leak out slowly:
. seep
. bleed
. discharge
. drain
. dribble
. drip
. extravasate (technical)
. exude
. leak
. ooze
. secrete
. transpire
. transude
. trickle
. gush (antonym)
. flow (antonym)
. flood (antonym)


The guy sure does have a lawyer's name!





"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:20:30 -0500, Wayne.B
said:

Dave, so what's your recommendation for how to fix this issue with our
friend in Venice?

I think a combination of appeals to business interests having a stake in
encouraging continued boat traffic from out of state, and efforts to get
the
problem publicized through friendly news media, is likely to be far more
effective in cost as well as time than a law suit.

I'll never forget one of the work problems Professor Leach included in his
case book on real property. He described a poor widow whose house was
about
to be taken by the city through eminent domain. As he described the facts
it
was clear she didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of challenging the
taking in court. His question was what can you do for her. His answer to
the
class was get ahold of a reporter at the local newspaper favoring the
party
out of power at the time and suggest it might make a good story.

His point--a good lawyer like a good carpenter uses the right tool for the
job.

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

Thanks for the Aaron Russo link, by the way. That's the first time
I've ever watched an entire film on YouTube, but worth every minute of
it.



Try a little test around town. Ask randomly selected people you happen
to be standing in line with if they think the US Government prints their
money. 99.99% think it's government money, not private money.

This Freemasonic bank corporation is part of the "New World Order" to
enslave us, which it has already accomplished. Look at the $1 bill.....

On the back, disguised as the "Great Seal of the United States" and put
on the money during FDR's reign (32nd degree mason) is the "All Seeing
Eye" on the "Unfinished Pyramid" of world control. Complete the upside
down triangle of the 6-pointed Star of David the Pyramid-Eye is half of.
The other triangle's top horizontal line is right under the eye with its
point touching the circle at the bottom. Look at the 5 letters the
points point to: M-A-S-O-N Do you know what it says in Latin on the
left circle? Announcing the beginning of - The New World Order. This
was in the 1940's, remember, FDR was in control.

On the other side of the seal on the right, the eagle has 32 feathers on
one wing (32nd degree masonry), and 33 feathers of the super freemasons
on the right. It has the symbolic 13 arrow, 13 tailfeathers and 13
leaves in its grasp. This is no coincidence, it's masonic symbols on our
money, the real power above the politicians. The star field above the
eagle is another 6-pointed Star of David if you connect them and leave
off the middle star.

13 is an important number. Run Google Earth and center it on the White
House, Freemasonry's seat of control. Now, fly Google Earth 13 blocks
out the White House's front door, 13 is important, remember. 13 blocks N
of the White House is the Supreme Council of the United States, the
headquarters of Freemasonry in America. Take a trip EAST of the White
House and you'll find another masonic monument, the statue of the only
Confederate General in Washington, DC. It's not important that he was a
Confederate General. What's important is the statue is of Albert Pike,
who started Freemasonry in America and was responsible for Washington,
DC, the Freemasonry capital of the New World Order. Straight out the
back door of the White House, of course, is the largest Freemason symbol
in the city, The Phallus of Osirus euphamistically called the "Washington
Monument". That's OK, Washington was a 32nd degree Freemason. It
reminds the current occupant of the White House who is in control because
it looks down on him in his bedroom. He can see it from his bed while
he's got the job.

Now, pan Google Earth back higher and let's look at the streets out the
front door of the White House. There are 4 strategically-placed traffic
circles connected with streets from the White House, with the White House
as the base. Print out this view and connect the White House to the 4
traffic circles. Connect each traffic Circle to all the other 4 traffic
circles. Draw a circle around all 5 points and what do you get?
Hmm...is that a PENTAGRAM symbol? Another coincidence? The Pentagon is
another pentagram symbol of our Evil Empire, itself. Connect the points
with lines across the center courtyard walls. Any questions?

I got this pointed out to me from some other interesting documentaries
which were posted to alt.binaries.multimedia.documentaries over the past
few years. Wait until you see the last Freemason's stroke of genius, the
brand new Israeli Supreme Court building! That whole place is a masonic
temple, complete with all seeing eye, pyramids, floors and walls with the
black and white checkerboards and on and on. Coincidence?

Mayer Rothchild was quoted in Russo's documentary and it's probably the
most important statement of the whole film: "Give me control of a
nations money supply and I care not who makes its laws." It's why the
Federal Reserve Corporation was conceived.

The only recent President not a Freemason was JFK. He was replaced with
two Freemasons, including LBJ, regaining control. Most people don't know
about why JFK had to die in Dealey Plaza in Dallas. Take Google Earth to
a closeup of Dealey Plaza and look for another Phallus of Osirus EXACTLY
EAST of where Kennedy was shot to death FROM THE FRONT.....on the 32nd
parallel.....in front of the "Grassy Knoll". Know why it's a knoll? Its
where the original Texas Freemasonic Temple was located. Kennedy was
killed in front of its front door! Coincidence?? NOT. It was a warning
to others who followed him.

Just like 9-11, there's just too many "coincidences"

Larry
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEJmc...elated&search=

PS - All our power politicians and the filthy rich are members of
Bohemian Grove, a satanic cult in Northern California. The membership
list goes on and on, the real power in the country...govt, industry,
science, etc. Bohemian Grove's phallic symbol is an owl they burn in a
satanic ritual you can also find on YouTube. This BG symbol is also on
your ONE DOLLAR BILL! See if you can find it and I'll post a reply
showing you where it is after I come back from work......(c;

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

xorbit wrote in :

Black stealth helicopters....



Oh? You've been watching the videos of the World Trade Center collapse,
too? They were flying around the top of the building, probably where the
explosives were set off from.

Larry
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEJmc...elated&search=

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:

Thanks for the Aaron Russo link, by the way. That's the first time
I've ever watched an entire film on YouTube, but worth every minute of
it.



Try a little test around town. Ask randomly selected people you happen
to be standing in line with if they think the US Government prints their
money. 99.99% think it's government money, not private money.

This Freemasonic bank corporation is part of the "New World Order" to
enslave us, which it has already accomplished. Look at the $1 bill.....

On the back, disguised as the "Great Seal of the United States" and put
on the money during FDR's reign (32nd degree mason) is the "All Seeing
Eye" on the "Unfinished Pyramid" of world control. Complete the upside
down triangle of the 6-pointed Star of David the Pyramid-Eye is half of.
The other triangle's top horizontal line is right under the eye with its
point touching the circle at the bottom. Look at the 5 letters the
points point to: M-A-S-O-N Do you know what it says in Latin on the
left circle? Announcing the beginning of - The New World Order. This
was in the 1940's, remember, FDR was in control.

(snippage)

PS - All our power politicians and the filthy rich are members of
Bohemian Grove, a satanic cult in Northern California. The membership
list goes on and on, the real power in the country...govt, industry,
science, etc. Bohemian Grove's phallic symbol is an owl they burn in a
satanic ritual you can also find on YouTube. This BG symbol is also on
your ONE DOLLAR BILL! See if you can find it and I'll post a reply
showing you where it is after I come back from work......(c;

Well, Larry, some conspiracies I can recognise because they're pretty
cut-and-dried; others, well, they're pretty looney-tunes. ;-)

Venice, FL bad water cop - now OT
 

Larry wrote:

Oh? You've been watching the videos of the World Trade Center collapse,
too? They were flying around the top of the building, probably where the
explosives were set off from.

See, here's the problem. At Pearl Harbor, too
many people saw the Japanese airplanes, so it was
impossible for the conspiracy theorists to say we
attacked ourselves. The best they could come up
with was that we knew the Japanese were going to
do it and cynically withheld the information from
the Navy so that our people would be ****ed enough
to go to war (might be true but I doubt it). Of
course, it was convenient that Japan declared war
on us right after the attack, so there could be no
mistaking their intentions or who was responsible.

More people died in the 9/11/2001 attack on the US
mainland than at Pearl Harbor. Osama Bin Laden
and his compatriots declared war on the USA over
four years before, and had successfully bombed two
US embassies prior to 9/11. They even take credit
for the successful attack on their Jihadist web
sites, and promise more to come. Yet we are so
divided here in the USA that some people actually
believe that we attacked ourselves!! My nephew
believes this.

If you _really_ believe this crap, what are you
doing at your computer?? You should be making
preparations to flee to a third-world country, or
organizing an armed revolt.

People forget that the government is made up of
_lots_ of people who grew up here and went to
grade school and high school just like the rest of
us. Someone inside would "leak" the details if
things were as rotten as people believe. Hell,
Nixon couldn't even get away with a simple
burglary without "deep throat" outing him.

And before you assume that the insiders can be
controlled by fear of retribution, consider that
there are many fine people who still believe in
principle and are not afraid to die. I've had the
priviledge of working with some of them.

Don W.

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

"Perpetuities in a Nutshell" and "The Nutshell Revisited."

Oh,, those books.. boy, am I dumb.

======


"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:29:39 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
said:

Professor Leach? You can't make this up. Leach ,, as in ... 1. (v.) To
flow or leak out slowly:

W.B. Leach. Author of the leading case book on real property at the time,
and of "Perpetuities in a Nutshell" and "The Nutshell Revisited."

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:vHJDh.2347$sv6.508@trndny08...
"Perpetuities in a Nutshell" and "The Nutshell Revisited."

Oh,, those books.. boy, am I dumb.

======


"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:29:39 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
said:

Professor Leach? You can't make this up. Leach ,, as in ... 1. (v.) To
flow or leak out slowly:

W.B. Leach. Author of the leading case book on real property at the time,
and of "Perpetuities in a Nutshell" and "The Nutshell Revisited."



And let us not forget his most imporant contribution to the world: the Leach
Field, without which most septic systems would simply not work.

Venice, FL bad water cop
 

Larry wrote:

xorbit wrote in :


Black stealth helicopters....




Oh? You've been watching the videos of the World Trade Center collapse,
too? They were flying around the top of the building, probably where the
explosives were set off from.

Larry

Lots of black stealth helicopters....

Venice, FL bad water cop - now OT
 

Don W wrote in
:



Larry wrote:

Oh? You've been watching the videos of the World Trade Center
collapse, too? They were flying around the top of the building,
probably where the explosives were set off from.

See, here's the problem. At Pearl Harbor, too
many people saw the Japanese airplanes, so it was
impossible for the conspiracy theorists to say we
attacked ourselves. The best they could come up
with was that we knew the Japanese were going to
do it and cynically withheld the information from
the Navy so that our people would be ****ed enough
to go to war (might be true but I doubt it). Of
course, it was convenient that Japan declared war
on us right after the attack, so there could be no
mistaking their intentions or who was responsible.

At Pearl Harbor, the Japanese DID attack. The conspiracy is back in DC
where we KNEW where and when the Japanese were going to attack, but
DIDN'T inform the brass in Hawaii with a simple phone call. America HAD
to have a REASON to join WW2. American people, until that day, were
ISOLATIONISTS. Americans still are. Pearl Harbor could have been
prevented, but that wouldn't have gotten America into the war in time to
save England. There are many books and great documentary films about the
cryptography of WW2 that clearly show and document that WASHINGTON KNEW.

More people died in the 9/11/2001 attack on the US
mainland than at Pearl Harbor. Osama Bin Laden
and his compatriots declared war on the USA over
four years before, and had successfully bombed two
US embassies prior to 9/11. They even take credit
for the successful attack on their Jihadist web
sites, and promise more to come. Yet we are so
divided here in the USA that some people actually
believe that we attacked ourselves!! My nephew
believes this.

I'll probably never be able to convince you, with your head in the sand
not wanting to even suspect you've been lied to, over and over, by your
government you still think you have some control over...that a bunch of
Arabs who COULD NOT FLY, armed with box cutters, could hijack 4 planes,
turn off the entire NORAD defense system, turn off all the surface to air
missile systems guarding the most heavily guarded building on the planet,
divert all the military jets away from the area, stand down the biggest
military defense department on the planet and, without knowing how to
fly, armed with box cutters, fly amazing feats of airmanship into
buildings, especially the Pentagram where the box cutter boys made the
whole airplane, seats, passengers, luggage, air freight and all just
disappear through a 16' wide hole.

How can you be so naive and stupid?


If you _really_ believe this crap, what are you
doing at your computer?? You should be making
preparations to flee to a third-world country, or
organizing an armed revolt.

My other point is, you cannot escape. The "New World Order",
headquartered in DC, isn't about America. No, that's not their domain.
Their domain is the world. You cannot flee. You are trapped. Noone can
resist its power when it has the resources of all the most powerful
military machines on the planet.


People forget that the government is made up of
_lots_ of people who grew up here and went to
grade school and high school just like the rest of
us. Someone inside would "leak" the details if
things were as rotten as people believe. Hell,
Nixon couldn't even get away with a simple
burglary without "deep throat" outing him.

Have you never seen the trail of bodies behind people like Bill Clinton?
Remember Vince Foster, probably the most interesting example.... JFK was
the most visible example. They don't care. He was supposed to do what
he was told, just like the other Presidents. His mistake, that cost him
his life, was not to play along.


And before you assume that the insiders can be
controlled by fear of retribution, consider that
there are many fine people who still believe in
principle and are not afraid to die. I've had the
priviledge of working with some of them.

Don W.


The entire system runs on FEAR. Religion runs on FEAR. Law Enforcement
runs on FEAR. Governments run on FEAR. Fear of burning in Hell, Fear of
being killed, Fear of the IRS makes people ante up even with no law, fear
of jail or worse.

Venice, FL bad water cop - now OT
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
The entire system runs on FEAR. Religion runs on FEAR. Law Enforcement
runs on FEAR. Governments run on FEAR. Fear of burning in Hell, Fear of
being killed, Fear of the IRS makes people ante up even with no law, fear
of jail or worse.


"Fear" and the belief that whatever your government (religious leader, tax
man) says is true, and that it's treasonous to question it. These
institutions don't *require* fear, only blind obedience. But fear certainly
helps to achieve that end.

Venice, FL bad water cop - now OT
 

Larry wrote:
Don W wrote in


Larry wrote:

snip a bunch of stuff


And I repeat...

If you _really_ believe this crap, what are you
doing at your computer?? You should be making
preparations to flee to a third-world country, or
organizing an armed revolt.

Since you believe that _they_ control the whole
world, maybe you should try out Palmyra Atoll, or
Pitcairn Island. Or Dulcie Island which is
uninhabited at the moment. Look around--I'm sure
you can find someplace good to hide.

Don W.

Venice, FL bad water cop - now OT
 

"Don W" wrote in message
. ..


Larry wrote:
Don W wrote in


Larry wrote:

snip a bunch of stuff


And I repeat...

If you _really_ believe this crap, what are you doing at your computer??
You should be making preparations to flee to a third-world country, or
organizing an armed revolt.

Since you believe that _they_ control the whole world, maybe you should
try out Palmyra Atoll, or Pitcairn Island. Or Dulcie Island which is
uninhabited at the moment. Look around--I'm sure you can find someplace
good to hide.

Don W.





Don -- who holds allodial title to your house and the land it sits upon? I
guarantee that you don't. And without allodial title, you are, at best, a
tenant. Same with your car -- you only "own" it in the sense that you get to
use it until, or unless, the government decides to take it from you. Do you
even truly own your own body? If so, you should be able to do anything to it
you like. But you can't.

No matter where you go on this planet, you will be considered a citizen or
subject of one flag or another. Try to be a "Man Without A Country," and you
fall under UN jurisdiction.

Venice, FL bad water cop - now OT
 

KLC Lewis wrote:

Don -- who holds allodial title to your house and the land it sits upon? I
guarantee that you don't. And without allodial title, you are, at best, a
tenant. Same with your car -- you only "own" it in the sense that you get to
use it until, or unless, the government decides to take it from you. Do you
even truly own your own body? If so, you should be able to do anything to it
you like. But you can't.

No matter where you go on this planet, you will be considered a citizen or
subject of one flag or another. Try to be a "Man Without A Country," and you
fall under UN jurisdiction.

We are all here on this earth for a short time,
and we don't get to take anything with us when we
die. Even if you live to be 100 years old, it is
just a speck in known history.

That makes all of us temporary custodians, and
unable to really own anything since we don't get
to keep it for long under any circumstances.

Relax, and enjoy your temporary use of a boat to
get out and see more of the world. Meanwhile, if
the state wants my house they can take it, but
they'll have to mow the yard ;-)

Don W.

Venice, FL bad water cop - now OT
 

"Don W" wrote in message
.. .

KLC Lewis wrote:

Don -- who holds allodial title to your house and the land it sits upon?
I guarantee that you don't. And without allodial title, you are, at best,
a tenant. Same with your car -- you only "own" it in the sense that you
get to use it until, or unless, the government decides to take it from
you. Do you even truly own your own body? If so, you should be able to do
anything to it you like. But you can't.

No matter where you go on this planet, you will be considered a citizen
or subject of one flag or another. Try to be a "Man Without A Country,"
and you fall under UN jurisdiction.

We are all here on this earth for a short time, and we don't get to take
anything with us when we die. Even if you live to be 100 years old, it is
just a speck in known history.

That makes all of us temporary custodians, and unable to really own
anything since we don't get to keep it for long under any circumstances.

Relax, and enjoy your temporary use of a boat to get out and see more of
the world. Meanwhile, if the state wants my house they can take it, but
they'll have to mow the yard ;-)

Don W.


Yes, it is certainly true that we are only here a short time, and to quote
the great Crocodile Dundee, "Arguing about who owns the land is like two
fleas arguing about which of them owns the dog they live on." Nevertheless,
you're alright with the fact that the Government can simply take everything
you own? Perhaps you are. I'm not.

Venice, FL bad water cop - now OT
 

In 1775 a revolution was started up here in New Hampshire when the Bristish
decided they owned all the "mast" trees.

In fact, I live close to "Mast road".

If you ever visit Kingwood, NH .. you can see the crown marked in some of
the trees.

Now we live in a country that can't or won't control its borders.

The USA is never going to be defeated from without ... we will have another
revolution from within.

What do ya think would happen if we had ten or fifteen Katrina's at the same
time? Do ya think the masses are going to go broke, or let the thieves
steal, ........... I don't .. and I won't.

Mark my words...

The revolution is coming .. and it is not going to be pretty.


=================================================
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Don W" wrote in message
.. .

KLC Lewis wrote:

Don -- who holds allodial title to your house and the land it sits upon?
I guarantee that you don't. And without allodial title, you are, at
best, a tenant. Same with your car -- you only "own" it in the sense
that you get to use it until, or unless, the government decides to take
it from you. Do you even truly own your own body? If so, you should be
able to do anything to it you like. But you can't.

No matter where you go on this planet, you will be considered a citizen
or subject of one flag or another. Try to be a "Man Without A Country,"
and you fall under UN jurisdiction.

We are all here on this earth for a short time, and we don't get to take
anything with us when we die. Even if you live to be 100 years old, it
is just a speck in known history.

That makes all of us temporary custodians, and unable to really own
anything since we don't get to keep it for long under any circumstances.

Relax, and enjoy your temporary use of a boat to get out and see more of
the world. Meanwhile, if the state wants my house they can take it, but
they'll have to mow the yard ;-)

Don W.


Yes, it is certainly true that we are only here a short time, and to quote
the great Crocodile Dundee, "Arguing about who owns the land is like two
fleas arguing about which of them owns the dog they live on."
Nevertheless, you're alright with the fact that the Government can simply
take everything you own? Perhaps you are. I'm not.

Venice, FL bad water cop - now OT
 

On Feb 25, 8:43 am, "NE Sailboat" wrote:

Mark my words...

The revolution is coming .. and it is not going to be pretty.


Yes, but will it be televised?