Something is wrong with this picture. I mean I have a lot of sympathy
for the Gundlachs but it doesnt add up. With a 6.5' draft in the
Keys, it isnt a matter of "Am I going to go aground" but how bad will
it be, how bad the second time, the third ...ad infinitum. Given
this, how could anybody think of approaching Marathon from the north
in the dark? I mean, I am looking at the chart right now and its "No
way". I wouldnt get within 50 miles of it on the north side with a
6.5' draft in the dark and I am used to shallow water. There is a
good reason why ALL the charter companies forbid you to be underway
after dark in those waters. Why didnt he go into Charlotte harbor,
Boca Grande or even Evrrglades City if they were so tired. Electing
to continue toward such treacherous shallows was simply bizarre.
Is this a situation of a "new fangled" chart plotter not giving a
clear picture of the entire situation like a good large scale chart
does?
I've gone aground too and many of you know how I spent $500 to get
towed off a bar just after Thanksgiving but I know that around here
its justa matter of a soft thunk on the mud. In reefy conditions,
Good Lord, I'd be more careful.
Its a long friggin way from even Naples to Marathon and the
probability of getting over the large shallows north of Marathon in
the dark is nearly 50% no matter what you do. Marathon was a bad
choice no matter the schedule. From Key West on the outside in Fox
Channel you have the current helping you go NE so it'd be fast.
Skip and Lydia, I wish you the best but get a boat more suitable for
the waters and be careful.

On 12 Feb 2007 18:05:38 -0800, "Frogwatch"
wrote:

ts a long friggin way from even Naples to Marathon and the
probability of getting over the large shallows north of Marathon in
the dark is nearly 50% no matter what you do. Marathon was a bad
choice no matter the schedule.

It's not that difficult if you stay on track, although my first choice
would be daylight also.

If you did more than look at a chart you would know that there is
absolutely no problem traveling north of the Keys. We lived on our
boat and cruised there for 10 years and we have a 6 foot draft. We
have made the run from Cape Sable to the Keys and back many times in
both daylight and at night. Flying Pig made some costly mistakes but
this is a well traveled route done by many folks in all conditions so
the only thing wrong is the wrong interpretation of the chart you are
looking at. The problem with many posts we have read on this subject
is too many armchair sailors with little understanding of what can
happen if you actually got off the dock and spent some real time on
the water.



On Feb 12, 8:05 pm, "Frogwatch" wrote:
Something is wrong with this picture. I mean I have a lot of sympathy
for the Gundlachs but it doesnt add up. With a 6.5' draft in the
Keys, it isnt a matter of "Am I going to go aground" but how bad will
it be, how bad the second time, the third ...ad infinitum. Given
this, how could anybody think of approaching Marathon from the north
in the dark? I mean, I am looking at the chart right now and its "No
way". I wouldnt get within 50 miles of it on the north side with a
6.5' draft in the dark and I am used to shallow water. There is a
good reason why ALL the charter companies forbid you to be underway
after dark in those waters. Why didnt he go into Charlotte harbor,
Boca Grande or even Evrrglades City if they were so tired. Electing
to continue toward such treacherous shallows was simply bizarre.
Is this a situation of a "new fangled" chart plotter not giving a
clear picture of the entire situation like a good large scale chart
does?
I've gone aground too and many of you know how I spent $500 to get
towed off a bar just after Thanksgiving but I know that around here
its justa matter of a soft thunk on the mud. In reefy conditions,
Good Lord, I'd be more careful.
Its a long friggin way from even Naples to Marathon and the
probability of getting over the large shallows north of Marathon in
the dark is nearly 50% no matter what you do. Marathon was a bad
choice no matter the schedule. From Key West on the outside in Fox
Channel you have the current helping you go NE so it'd be fast.
Skip and Lydia, I wish you the best but get a boat more suitable for
the waters and be careful.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On 12 Feb 2007 18:05:38 -0800, "Frogwatch"
wrote:

ts a long friggin way from even Naples to Marathon and the
probability of getting over the large shallows north of Marathon in
the dark is nearly 50% no matter what you do. Marathon was a bad
choice no matter the schedule.

It's not that difficult if you stay on track, although my first choice
would be daylight also.


Well, my first rule of night sailing is to never enter a strange port or
shallow water until daylight, and if it looks like the current sailing
conditions will put the boat into either of them under the dark of night, to
slow down or heave-to and wait. Even then, I'd better have a damn good
reason for entering shallow water, which in Essie's case is anything less
than 12 feet -- with draft of 5 feet. Yes, that might make me
overly-cautious, but it's worked so far.

KLC Lewis wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On 12 Feb 2007 18:05:38 -0800, "Frogwatch"
wrote:

ts a long friggin way from even Naples to Marathon and the
probability of getting over the large shallows north of Marathon in
the dark is nearly 50% no matter what you do. Marathon was a bad
choice no matter the schedule.
It's not that difficult if you stay on track, although my first choice
would be daylight also.


Well, my first rule of night sailing is to never enter a strange port or
shallow water until daylight, and if it looks like the current sailing
conditions will put the boat into either of them under the dark of night, to
slow down or heave-to and wait. Even then, I'd better have a damn good
reason for entering shallow water, which in Essie's case is anything less
than 12 feet -- with draft of 5 feet. Yes, that might make me
overly-cautious, but it's worked so far.


I guess you will never sail around the Miami area in Biscayne Bay. Very
few places over 12 feet, but lots of us sail there almost every day with
5.5' draft.
krj

"krj" wrote in message
news:ajaAh.8949$z6.912@bigfe9...
KLC Lewis wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On 12 Feb 2007 18:05:38 -0800, "Frogwatch"
wrote:

ts a long friggin way from even Naples to Marathon and the
probability of getting over the large shallows north of Marathon in
the dark is nearly 50% no matter what you do. Marathon was a bad
choice no matter the schedule.
It's not that difficult if you stay on track, although my first choice
would be daylight also.


Well, my first rule of night sailing is to never enter a strange port or
shallow water until daylight, and if it looks like the current sailing
conditions will put the boat into either of them under the dark of night,
to slow down or heave-to and wait. Even then, I'd better have a damn good
reason for entering shallow water, which in Essie's case is anything less
than 12 feet -- with draft of 5 feet. Yes, that might make me
overly-cautious, but it's worked so far.
I guess you will never sail around the Miami area in Biscayne Bay. Very
few places over 12 feet, but lots of us sail there almost every day with
5.5' draft.
krj

Yes, my rules are for this specific area, where 12 feet usually means much
less depth fast approaching, and there's plenty of deep-water to sail in.
I've looked in detail at the charts of the Keys, and they scare the bejeezus
out of me. There are parts of Green Bay I'd love to go to, but it's not
worth risking running aground, so if I REALLY want to see them, I can take
the dink in. Every summer the VHF is fairly overflowing with calls for help
from people who were sure they could cross that shoal...

On Feb 12, 11:07 pm, "joseph" wrote:
If you did more than look at a chart you would know that there is
absolutely no problem traveling north of the Keys. We lived on our
boat and cruised there for 10 years and we have a 6 foot draft. We
have made the run from Cape Sable to the Keys and back many times in
both daylight and at night. Flying Pig made some costly mistakes but
this is a well traveled route done by many folks in all conditions so
the only thing wrong is the wrong interpretation of the chart you are
looking at. The problem with many posts we have read on this subject
is too many armchair sailors with little understanding of what can
happen if you actually got off the dock and spent some real time on
the water.


What some folks seem to be forgeting is the sea state at the time.

Yes, 6 1/2 foot draft is do-able on the Gulf side of the Keys. If you
are careful.

But not when you throw in 6-8+ foot seas. And while the shallows
would knock that down some, it's still not a place you want to be with
6 1/2 draft in those conditions. Especially at night.

And yes, I've been boating in and around that area for decades.
Sometimes even in an armchair. Stidd arm chair that is. :-)