I have just installed a CDI furling system on my 8.5 M S2 so am about
to buy a furling genoa. I only intend to cruise and rarely (never)
race and am wondering what size genoa to get.
What is the maximum amount I can furl a sail and still have it work
ok? I have read somewhere about 70% which means that a 150 can be
furled down to 105.
The furling sails made by CDI dont have the foam luff for better shape
when furled down so am not sure about them.
I can buy an offshore furling 150 off the shelf (already made and new)
for reasonable price but it is 1' too short. Is this ok or will it
hurt performance too much. This sail is probably better made than one
I would have custom made for my boat. It seems that this is a
reduction in area of about 2.9% only.
With this shorter sail, could I hoist it higher in lighter air and
lower in heavier air?

As you may already realize, sail performance will suffer as more of the
genoa is rolled up on the furler. You shouldn't consider a furler as a
reefing system rather a convenient way to reduce sail occasionally and to
store the sail when the day is done or the wind really gets to blowing.

Your sail maker can help you with the shape and foam luff if you think you
are going to sail frequently with it partially furled.

Sailing with it partially furled can also change the shape of the sail if
done frequently.

You may not be able to do this because of your limited sail storage
capacity, but I have three head sails, 100% (working high cut), 120 and 150.
Plus I have a staysail (with reef points). My Harken 2.5 is very easy to
change head sails on when I use a pre-feeder. I'm not suggesting that
changing sails is easy during a blow, but it's not a big deal to select a
comfortable size if I am singlehanding or if I know what weather I will
experience during the days sail.

If you are just switching from hanks to furler, you must realize that your
furler sails will be shorter on the luff, due to the drum and the head
swivel. On a boat your size, that might be at least 1-2 ft less than a
hanked on sail.

If you end up with a sail that is still short on the luff, it would be
customary to have a pennant on the head to get the swivel up to near full
hoist. This prevents from halyard wrapping around the furler (better lead to
the halyard sheave). To adjust the luff hoist up and down would require that
you lower the sail to change this pennant or risk a halyard wrap.


--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

I didn't have much luck with CDI, in fact I sent it back.

However, that doesn't answer your question.

Over the past 20 years I have had furling on three boats, and wouldn't sail
without it.

On two, the genoas were custom made by Sobstad with a foam luff. The other
was the 150 which came with the boat, modified by a local sailmaker without
foam. Furling gear was Pro Furl and Harken. All did the job well.


When the wind picks up enough to reef in a little, there is no problem with
the shape.

When it gets serious, reef in a lot. It doesn't matter a darn about the sail
shape. If you want to survive, you are much better off with an inefficient
sail than you would be going up front to change sails. These situations
occur so infrequently that you don't have to worry about pulling the sail
out of shape. If it gets too hairy, furl it all in and start the motor.

BUT, go to a reputable sailmaker.

Bryan

"Bryan Fox" wrote in message news:Jothb.56349$9l5.6070@pd7tw2no...
I didn't have much luck with CDI, in fact I sent it back.

However, that doesn't answer your question.

Over the past 20 years I have had furling on three boats, and wouldn't sail
without it.

On two, the genoas were custom made by Sobstad with a foam luff. The other
was the 150 which came with the boat, modified by a local sailmaker without
foam. Furling gear was Pro Furl and Harken. All did the job well.


When the wind picks up enough to reef in a little, there is no problem with
the shape.

When it gets serious, reef in a lot. It doesn't matter a darn about the sail
shape. If you want to survive, you are much better off with an inefficient
sail than you would be going up front to change sails. These situations
occur so infrequently that you don't have to worry about pulling the sail
out of shape. If it gets too hairy, furl it all in and start the motor.

BUT, go to a reputable sailmaker.

Bryan

I went with CDI because Practical Sailor rated them highly.
Installing the furler wasn't a problem and required no changes to the
headstay so that was a plus. It is also a fairly simple system. I
did go with the ball bearing equipped system.
After recalculating and factoring in the decrease in luff length for
the roller, I find that the 150 genoa I want to buy is really a 140.
If I reef it 20%, it becomes a 112 which is ok as my current work jib
is a 100. I have read that they can be reefed 30% (probably not
really) and still work well and that would give me a 98%.
I agree, when it gets serious, dont worry about sail shape.

SO, I have decided to go with the heavier pre-made 150%

This should make sailing with my family a LOT easier, for example:

Putting up the jib

Me: (to my wife) Kath, can you take the tiller while I go put on the
jib?
Kath: Give me a minute to get on more sunscreen and make sure Katie
(our 7 yr old) is tied in. (this takes 10 minutes at least)
Me: (at last) OK, keep us on 140 degrees.
Kath: How do I read the new compass? (is this really rocket science?
She has done this many times before). I want to put on the jib to
remember how.
Me: (thinking, oh, god, its gonna an hour or so till the jib is up)
OK, put on the work jib.
Kath: Is that the bag marked 100% or "Genoa" KATIE, get out of the
way so I can get the sail bag!
Katie: I'm coloring a dolphin picture, see. (Kathy stops for a while
to admire the dolphin picture)
Kath: Nicholas (my 13 yr old) help me with this sail. (Nick has his
headphones on and cant hear a thing) NICK, HELP ME WITH THIS SAIL.
Nick: huh?
Kath: (after getting the sail to the bow) Which end goes on first?
(She has done this many times)
Me: Look for the North sail logo
Kath: Its gone (so what, its old, its still obvious where it was, she
finally gets it hanked on.
Kath: Krista (our 17 yr old daughter) Pass me the jib sheets
Krista: (A blank look on her face even though she is brilliant) The
jib whats? Oh, the rope thingies, where are they?
Kath: (after finally getting the jib sheets from Krista) I cant get
these clips to work, I want to tie a bowline instead but cant remember
how. (She has been rock climbing, vertical caving and sailing for
years and can't rememebr how to tie a bowline?)
Me: KRISTA, take the f**** tiller and point us at that sand dune on
the island. (I go forward and put the clips on the jib for the jib
sheets and then go back to the tiller only to find we have turned 90
degrees)
Krista: OOOOhhhhhhh, THAT sand dune.
Kath gets the jib sheets run to the blocks and all is well until I
pull in on them only to find she has run them INSIDE the shrouds. At
this point, which would be better, just shooting myself or slitting my
wrists and jumping overboard and waiting for the sharks?

As to furling genoas. You will be well suited with a 135. This will allow
you to have excellent performance in light 10 knots or less to moderate wind
11-16 knots. When you get to reefing the 135 around 22-27 knots you will be
more suited for sail shape. Unless you sail continually in strong to gale
fore winds. Buy a gale sail for those days. Furling sails are not made to
be furled more than 20-25% of their surface. Even at 25% sail surface area,
you are sacrificing a lot of sail shape and performance. Don't forget to
adjust your jib sheet blocks to better shape the sail as the wind speed
changes.

BTW if your racing don't even bother with a furling sail. Just buy an
assortment of jibs and genoas for every wind condition.

Jack



"Parallax" wrote in message
om...
I have just installed a CDI furling system on my 8.5 M S2 so am about
to buy a furling genoa. I only intend to cruise and rarely (never)
race and am wondering what size genoa to get.
What is the maximum amount I can furl a sail and still have it work
ok? I have read somewhere about 70% which means that a 150 can be
furled down to 105.
The furling sails made by CDI dont have the foam luff for better shape
when furled down so am not sure about them.
I can buy an offshore furling 150 off the shelf (already made and new)
for reasonable price but it is 1' too short. Is this ok or will it
hurt performance too much. This sail is probably better made than one
I would have custom made for my boat. It seems that this is a
reduction in area of about 2.9% only.
With this shorter sail, could I hoist it higher in lighter air and
lower in heavier air?

On 10 Oct 2003 06:56:52 -0700, (Parallax)
wrote:

At
this point, which would be better, just shooting myself or slitting my
wrists and jumping overboard and waiting for the sharks?

Just show Kathy this post and you won't have to make a decision.

Parallax wrote:

This should make sailing with my family a LOT easier, for example: ...

I was watching a "Silence of the Lambs" sequel last night. Ya' know, a
movie's story line has to be plausible to be entertaining. This one was
doing great til near the end the hero's wife gets caught between him and
the villain - both armed with pistols. The wife doesn't know the bad
guy's behind her. Man suspense to the max! But then our hero yells
"drop" and she immediately hits the floor allowing him to engage the bad
guy and any credibility the plot ever had went out the window. Can you
imagine any woman responding like that? No! It'd be "Why should I do
that - asshole?" or "why are you playing with a gun in the house?" or
*anything* BUT what she'd been told to do! It's like trying to herd
cats. My wife even got mad when I pointed this out.

Parallax wrote:

I have just installed a CDI furling system on my 8.5 M S2 so am about
to buy a furling genoa. I only intend to cruise and rarely (never)
race and am wondering what size genoa to get.
What is the maximum amount I can furl a sail and still have it work
ok? I have read somewhere about 70% which means that a 150 can be
furled down to 105.
The furling sails made by CDI dont have the foam luff for better shape
when furled down so am not sure about them.
I can buy an offshore furling 150 off the shelf (already made and new)
for reasonable price but it is 1' too short. Is this ok or will it
hurt performance too much. This sail is probably better made than one
I would have custom made for my boat. It seems that this is a
reduction in area of about 2.9% only.
With this shorter sail, could I hoist it higher in lighter air and
lower in heavier air?


Which sail depends upon your sailing area and habits. We had had a 155
(or so) on hanks, but the North Sails sailsman (spelling intentional)
both knew the area and our boat's characteristics and built us a
full-shouldered 135. Works as well as the #1 did in light airs, better
in moderate air, and will reef to about 90% of area with reasonable
shape over our rope luff (which we figure will last longer than foam).

I would prefer a 135 that hoisted full on the luff than a 150 that was a
bit short. Remember that the leading foot or so of the sail does most of
the work.

Also, the CDI's internal halyard makes it a bit more difficult to hoist
a short sail. Most likely, you'll put a pennant at head or foot to make
up the difference.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Most sailmakers recomend no more than a 135%
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

On 10 Oct 2003 06:56:52 -0700, (Parallax)
wrote:

Kath gets the jib sheets run to the blocks and all is well until I
pull in on them only to find she has run them INSIDE the shrouds. At
this point, which would be better, just shooting myself or slitting my
wrists and jumping overboard and waiting for the sharks?

This is an easy one.

1) Don't take them sailing. They obviously have no interest. Find crew
who do.

2) Get well offshore away from any navigational hazards.
Surreptitiously remove the in-line fuse from the VHF and hide all the
cell phones. Fake an attack of Montezuma's Revenge and lock yourself
in the head, or fake a heart attack. Tell the crew "it's up to
you...arrrggghhh...."

See if they get the boat home without painting "HELP! COAST GUARD!" on
your deck.

R.