Roger Long wrote:
Razzbar wrote:
The media has been saying it was a "perfect storm" that Ken sailed

You believe, or even pay any attention to, what "the media" says about an
event like this? Where have you been?

I look at "the media" as a resource that is neither all right or all
wrong. Do you believe -any- of this story? I'm just trying to get more
information from better informed people, is all.

Saying "perfect storm" sells papers and web clicks.

Indeed. But then again, that's why I asked. Is it not impossible that
there might have been some extreme weather event going on here? It
whetted my curiosity regarding the weather systems at play in that part
of the world. Of course I suspected hype, but then again, maybe there
were some spectacular satellite images.

By his own account, the conditions were actually about as good as you can
hope for in that part of the world when the weather isn't fair.

Thanks -- that was useful. I'll puzzle over what you mean by that...
being as good as you can hope for when it isn't 'fair' (?)... That
would be "fair", correct?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

.... alas, no perfect storm.

On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 15:59:41 -0800, Razzbar wrote:

By his own account, the conditions were actually about as good as you
can hope for in that part of the world when the weather isn't fair.

Thanks -- that was useful. I'll puzzle over what you mean by that... being
as good as you can hope for when it isn't 'fair' (?)... That would be
"fair", correct?

yo Razzbar... "Roaring 40's"... a fair day there is _not_ a good day just
about anywhere else!

mr.b wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 15:59:41 -0800, Razzbar wrote:

yo Razzbar... "Roaring 40's"... a fair day there is _not_ a good day
just about anywhere else!

Exactly, if you are going to sail down there, you should be prepared to
either sail (or die) in 60 - 80 knot winds while recognizing that 25 - 30
knots can produce seas of a size only seen in major Atlantic storms. You
need to be prepared to accept the conditions that sank Barnes as basically
routine. I'm not implying though that he was unprepared or deficient in
skills or equipment. Just about all days are dangerous in that part of the
world.

--
Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in
:

Exactly, if you are going to sail down there, you should be prepared
to either sail (or die) in 60 - 80 knot winds while recognizing that
25 - 30 knots can produce seas of a size only seen in major Atlantic
storms. You need to be prepared to accept the conditions that sank
Barnes as basically routine. I'm not implying though that he was
unprepared or deficient in skills or equipment. Just about all days
are dangerous in that part of the world.



All this just to avoid a few weeks waiting and a few thousand dollars in
bribes at the Panama Canal we STUPID Americans just gave away....

Dumb, really dumb.

Larry! We gave away the Panama Canal? When did we do that?

**** ,, this is BIG.



"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Roger Long" wrote in
:

Exactly, if you are going to sail down there, you should be prepared
to either sail (or die) in 60 - 80 knot winds while recognizing that
25 - 30 knots can produce seas of a size only seen in major Atlantic
storms. You need to be prepared to accept the conditions that sank
Barnes as basically routine. I'm not implying though that he was
unprepared or deficient in skills or equipment. Just about all days
are dangerous in that part of the world.



All this just to avoid a few weeks waiting and a few thousand dollars in
bribes at the Panama Canal we STUPID Americans just gave away....

Dumb, really dumb.

Roger Long wrote:
mr.b wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 15:59:41 -0800, Razzbar wrote:

yo Razzbar... "Roaring 40's"... a fair day there is _not_ a good day
just about anywhere else!

Exactly, if you are going to sail down there, you should be prepared to
either sail (or die) in 60 - 80 knot winds while recognizing that 25 - 30
knots can produce seas of a size only seen in major Atlantic storms. You
need to be prepared to accept the conditions that sank Barnes as basically
routine. I'm not implying though that he was unprepared or deficient in
skills or equipment. Just about all days are dangerous in that part of the
world.

This is in fact not true. I have done many, many trips from Australia
to Antarctica over the last 10 years. The conditions can be extreme but
there are also plenty of times where the Southern Ocean can be a
millpond. We routinely deploy moored bouys into the ocean, leave them
down for 12 months or more and then recover them. Some of the
instrument strings are over 4 km in length and are in close to 5000m of
water. We can't recover them if the wind & waves are too great, and
every year we manage to get most of them back, service them and drop
them again.

You definitely need to be prepared for really, really foul conditions
but it is a gross exaggeration to say that just about all days are
dangerous. They're not. Probably less than 20% of the time, in fact.

PDW

- who lives at 43 S and sails a daysailer for light entertainment when
not at sea. A fair day here is a good day anywhere. In fact I'm going
sailing again this afternoon and next week am heading down to 55 S yet
again, on an oceanographic research vessel.

Peter wrote:

This is in fact not true. I have done many, many trips from Australia
to Antarctica over the last 10 years. The conditions can be extreme
but there are also plenty of times where the Southern Ocean can be a
millpond.

Thanks for the good info. I was actualy speaking more of the mindset for
preparation than describing the weather conditions anthough that wasn't
particularly clear. A mill pond day that far from anywhere in an ocean with
that kind of fetch and weather systems is dangerous. It's like being far up
on Mount Everest on a calm, warm, day.

I posted a while ago about the people who have gotten into trouble in the
Southern Ocean due to not realizing how many calm days there are and that
many periods are characterized by the extremes. The big clipper ships would
hook on to a low and stay with it for hundreds of miles. The small yacht
has to hunker down in the heavy weather and doesn't have the speed to stay
with the system. Then come the calms and little progress is made until the
next big system comes through and beats them up again.

Pretty impressive passage from New Zeland to Cape Horn Donna Lange made
though in her 28 footer.

--
Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
Peter wrote:

This is in fact not true. I have done many, many trips from Australia
to Antarctica over the last 10 years. The conditions can be extreme
but there are also plenty of times where the Southern Ocean can be a
millpond.

Thanks for the good info. I was actualy speaking more of the mindset for
preparation than describing the weather conditions anthough that wasn't
particularly clear. A mill pond day that far from anywhere in an ocean with
that kind of fetch and weather systems is dangerous. It's like being far up
on Mount Everest on a calm, warm, day.

You are quite right there. Last year I had a dream run from Hobart to
Antarctica and back again to Fremantle. Later in the year I went down
to 55S to retrieve some moored instruments and ran into 3 gales in 3
weeks. Anyone venturing there must have their vessel and at least as
importantly themselves prepared for days of very bad weather while a
front blows through. I'd say that the ability to make sail in marginal
conditions with safety for both vessel and crew was more important than
carrying the largest sail area possible. Personally I'd prefer a
relatively low aspect rig, heavily stayed, and a steel hull.

I posted a while ago about the people who have gotten into trouble in the
Southern Ocean due to not realizing how many calm days there are and that
many periods are characterized by the extremes. The big clipper ships would
hook on to a low and stay with it for hundreds of miles. The small yacht
has to hunker down in the heavy weather and doesn't have the speed to stay
with the system. Then come the calms and little progress is made until the
next big system comes through and beats them up again.

Quite right. We use those calms to get work done. With satellite
weather recievers and good comms, we can & do work around the fronts,
heading north or south to keep working while one blows through, then
dealing with the hole in the transect after the front has passed. These
days we lose far less time than we used to but a powered ship isn't a
small sailboat; we have a lot more options open to us.


Pretty impressive passage from New Zeland to Cape Horn Donna Lange made
though in her 28 footer.

I agree. I'd need to consult my library but memory says it's been done
before in similar sized vessels, which takes nothing away from anyone
doing it now. She is both a better sailor and a braver person than I
am.

PDW