"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

The average boater buys for "typical sailing conditions," then lives in
fear of getting caught out in anything stronger than 15 knots. I'll take
the Wetsnail over a modern putty boat any day of the week, and twice on
Sundays.

The competent sailor has confidence in his abilities and knows his
limitations. The "average boater" you describe above is a typical
Catalina 30 owner who never really learned to sail and doesn't know
enough about heavy weather sailing to be anything but a hazard to himself
and his passengers. His Catalina is stout enough to handle 70kts and big
waves, but he most likely isn't. If he knew what he was doing, he
wouldn't need an overbuilt boat like the Wetsnail.

Max


So are you saying that the "average" sailor is also a competent one?

To the contrary. The average sailor is like the average golfer--good enough
to play the game but not to score well.

Max

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

For a solo sailor, or a not-overly-large couple,
the boat is perfect.


I agree to some degree, but your boat is really quite capable of an
ocean voyage, is also very solidly built and is a LOT more fun to sail.

The question comes as to whether the W32 is overbuilt or grotesquely
overbuilt. An off the rack Caliber or Island Packet is probably just as
capable, more fun to sail and a lot more pleasing to be aboard much of
the time.

Those would also be one hell of a lot more expensive. The nicest aspect of
W32s these days is their prices.

Of course I'm a Long Island Sound sailor where such boats,
even Cape Dory's are thought of as motorsailors. Finally...does one buy
a vessel for typcial sailing conditions or the Perfect Storm?

That was my point in a nutshell. I wouldn't own a boat of the W32's nature,
primarily because most of my sailing is daysailing and week-long cruising at
this point. But the Passport 40 we've been looking at would still be my
choice for offshore work.

Max

"Charlie Morgan" wrote
I'm interested in opinions on Westsail 32's in general.

It's the perfect boat for a fictional character.


Maxprop wrote:
"Wetsnail" 32s are seriously overbuilt, which can be a distinct advantage
when the going gets rough.

Well, they're very heavily built. That's not necessarily the
same as being very strongly built. I understand there were
several different builders and some QA problems.

Remember the story from the Baja, where a sudden storm blew
a lot of anchroed cruising boats ashore, including a
Westsail 32 and an Olson 40. The Olson had scratches. The
Westsail was in pieces.


You may recall the one that survived "The
Perfect Storm" despite being abandoned.


A great recommendation for somebody who is going to ignore
weather forecasts.

FWIW almost any boat that didn't have major leaks is likely
to survive a really bad storm, provided she doesn't
encounter a really bad combination of waves by chance. OTOH,
if the luck is really bad, nothing is going to survive no
matter how heavy.


A friend had one for years, and while I used to blow him a lot of crap about
it, it really was a boat of some merit. In light air it could be terribly
frustrating. Under 10kts. it generally sailed along at 3kts. or so and just
didn't seem to 'free up.' It was not particularly weatherly in such winds,
leading one to use the diesel to weather in anything under 15kts.


Your friend must have had good sails, a lightly loaded
boat, and been a good sailor. I've never seen one move at
all under sail when there were't whitecaps.



However when the wind blew (15kts. and above) it came into its element. We
often beat longer, faster boats, such as C&C 34s and 36s to weather, and on
beam or close reaches.

?? ??
You're joking. Or the other boats were anchored.

... Downwind she doesn't make that sort of speed, but
she wasn't particularly slow either. We once sailed her on a beam reach for
about 12 straight hours of 20+ kts.--made a bit better than 80nm, and in
complete comfort.


Comfort is the strong point. The boats feel very solid and
the motion is very smooth. Kinda small inside but the
factory offered layouts were very practical and made the most.


Just before he sold the boat and bought a trawler we installed a couple of
thru-hulls. That hull near the point where the bottom fairs into the keel
is amazingly thick--about 1.5"+ solid lay-up.

I saw a guy putting a thru-hull in a one of the more
piratey-looking crab crushers, and he had been bragging
about his thick thick thick hull. "Back then, they didn't
know how strong fiberglass was" was one of his favorite
sayings. Well, as he worked on the hull, he started finding
odd things.... hull lay-up with headlines, or scraps of what
looked like indoor-outdoor carpet.

I'm not saying Westsail did stuff like that. I'm just saying
that really really thick fiberglass is not, all by itself, a
great recommendation.


.... Under diesel--a 24hp
Universal in my friend's case--she makes 5.5kts without straining.

I think "without strain" is a good descriptor for the whole
boat & it's operation. The cockpit is well laid out, as is
the deck although it's bit crowded for my taste. The rig &
it's gear is properly done and nothing takes gut-busting
effort. I love the bulwarks. The nicest thing is that the
boat is very steady underfoot, no bounciness... anti-bouncy,
if anything. One downside of this characteristic is that
they tend to throw spray in a chop.

The Westsail 32 is often described as a "Colin Archer" type
but it's really not. It's more like a workboat that looks
Colin Archer-ish. There is little flare and little keel salient.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Maxprop wrote:

FWIW almost any boat that didn't have major leaks is likely to survive a
really bad storm, provided she doesn't encounter a really bad combination
of waves by chance. OTOH, if the luck is really bad, nothing is going to
survive no matter how heavy.

From the damage sustained by that boat, it was assumed that the waves had
rolled it several times, or perhaps pitchpoled the boat. Are you implying
that, say, a Hunter 30 built during the same general period would have fared
as well?

A friend had one for years, and while I used to blow him a lot of crap
about it, it really was a boat of some merit. In light air it could be
terribly frustrating. Under 10kts. it generally sailed along at 3kts. or
so and just didn't seem to 'free up.' It was not particularly weatherly
in such winds, leading one to use the diesel to weather in anything under
15kts.


Your friend must have had good sails, a lightly loaded boat, and been a
good sailor. I've never seen one move at all under sail when there were't
whitecaps.

You must not have had much experience with them. His was an owner-finished
boat. The interior was gorgeous, but no concession was made to light weight
joinerwork. Everything was teak and overbuilt below as well. My friend's
sails were new when I first sailed with him, and he indeed was a fine
sailor, and the boat moved very well in 15kts.

However when the wind blew (15kts. and above) it came into its element.
We often beat longer, faster boats, such as C&C 34s and 36s to weather,
and on beam or close reaches.

?? ??
You're joking. Or the other boats were anchored.

No joke. If I had a dollar for every time we passed faster, leaner boats
under those conditions, especially around 20kts. or better, I wouldn't be
rich, but I could probably buy a new pair of Topsiders. Above 15kts. the
lightweight boats reduce sail. The Wetsnail (sloop, in this case) carried
full sail to 40kts. with my friend at the helm. I typically reduced sail a
bit sooner, but then I prefer to keep a boat on its feet.


Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Maxprop wrote:

FWIW almost any boat that didn't have major leaks is likely to survive a
really bad storm, provided she doesn't encounter a really bad combination
of waves by chance. OTOH, if the luck is really bad, nothing is going to
survive no matter how heavy.

From the damage sustained by that boat, it was assumed that the waves had
rolled it several times, or perhaps pitchpoled the boat. Are you implying
that, say, a Hunter 30 built during the same general period would have
fared as well?

A friend had one for years, and while I used to blow him a lot of crap
about it, it really was a boat of some merit. In light air it could be
terribly frustrating. Under 10kts. it generally sailed along at 3kts.
or so and just didn't seem to 'free up.' It was not particularly
weatherly in such winds, leading one to use the diesel to weather in
anything under 15kts.


Your friend must have had good sails, a lightly loaded boat, and been a
good sailor. I've never seen one move at all under sail when there were't
whitecaps.

You must not have had much experience with them. His was an
owner-finished boat. The interior was gorgeous, but no concession was
made to light weight joinerwork. Everything was teak and overbuilt below
as well. My friend's sails were new when I first sailed with him, and he
indeed was a fine sailor, and the boat moved very well in 15kts.

However when the wind blew (15kts. and above) it came into its element.
We often beat longer, faster boats, such as C&C 34s and 36s to weather,
and on beam or close reaches.

?? ??
You're joking. Or the other boats were anchored.

No joke. If I had a dollar for every time we passed faster, leaner boats
under those conditions, especially around 20kts. or better, I wouldn't be
rich, but I could probably buy a new pair of Topsiders. Above 15kts. the
lightweight boats reduce sail. The Wetsnail (sloop, in this case) carried
full sail to 40kts. with my friend at the helm. I typically reduced sail
a bit sooner, but then I prefer to keep a boat on its feet.


Max


Just think of all that excess loading on the sails and rigging.

"Gilligan" wrote in message

Just think of all that excess loading on the sails and rigging.

. . . which for a Wetsnail is no problem. Everything is overbuilt,
including the rigging. Most W32 owners specify their sails in the very
heavy fabric range.

Max

FWIW almost any boat that didn't have major leaks is likely to survive a
really bad storm, provided she doesn't encounter a really bad combination
of waves by chance. OTOH, if the luck is really bad, nothing is going to
survive no matter how heavy.


Maxprop wrote:
From the damage sustained by that boat, it was assumed that the waves had
rolled it several times, or perhaps pitchpoled the boat. Are you implying
that, say, a Hunter 30 built during the same general period would have fared
as well?


If the hatches & ports didn't break in, sure. Why wouldn't
it? The Hunter 30 would be more likely to spend more time
upside-down though, if rolled.

Unless you carefully gather data on how long abandoned boats
survive in hurricane+ conditions, you're just indulging in
idle name-calling.


Your friend must have had good sails, a lightly loaded boat, and been a
good sailor. I've never seen one move at all under sail when there were't
whitecaps.


You must not have had much experience with them.

Depnds on what you call "much." There have been a few
Westsails around most of the places I've sailed, and I've
had a few friends who owned them.


?? ??
You're joking. Or the other boats were anchored.


No joke. If I had a dollar for every time we passed faster, leaner boats
under those conditions, especially around 20kts. or better, I wouldn't be
rich, but I could probably buy a new pair of Topsiders.

Well, my experience has been that crab-crusher sailors like
to make this claim, but for every time they outsail another
boat there are two basic facts
1- the other boat is either much smaller or has some good
reason for being slow, like 5 years of bottom growth
2- there are 50 other examples of being outsailed by similar
vessels, which the crab-crusher sailor neglects to observe
or mention.

For example, I was good friends with a couple who onwed a
very very nice Thomas Gilmer designed full keeler. They
insisted it could outsail "any" fin-keeler in higher winds.
They based this on have once outrun an O'Day of the mid-20'
size range. I sailed against them in a Morgan 27 one day of
30+ winds and literally could run rings around them. I was
afraid they would never speak to me again, but I think the
social convention was that they pretended it never happened
and I could still be friends as long as I was gentlemanly
enough to not mention it, either.

I also observed them dropping behind many other less racy
production fin keelers of similar size. Same with Westsails
although I've never made as direct a test of it.


... Above 15kts. the
lightweight boats reduce sail. The Wetsnail (sloop, in this case) carried
full sail to 40kts.

And it still has a fat cross section and rather low righting
moment per pound of displacement.

... I typically reduced sail a
bit sooner, but then I prefer to keep a boat on its feet.


It's true that many hull forms don't mind heeling as much as
boxy fin-keelers do (sails like a dinghy), but that doesn't
make them any faster.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Maxprop wrote:

"Wetsnail" 32s are seriously overbuilt, which can be a distinct advantage
when the going gets rough. You may recall the one that survived "The
Perfect Storm" despite being abandoned.

A friend had one for years, and while I used to blow him a lot of crap about
it, it really was a boat of some merit. In light air it could be terribly
frustrating. Under 10kts. it generally sailed along at 3kts. or so and just
didn't seem to 'free up.' It was not particularly weatherly in such winds,
leading one to use the diesel to weather in anything under 15kts.

Was that John O. from Grand Rapids?

My bad, Charlie...I got the worng boat...Michael replied:

Michael Orton wrote:

Ect chew lee (actually) I have a proper British built boat, a Westerly Berwick 31 twin keeler.....but I can vouch for the worth of W32's as good cruising/liveaboard boats.....

M.


On 12/3/06, katy wrote:

Mike..if you send me a reply I'll post it for you since you are probably
not siubscribed anymore...

Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 16:44:06 -0500, katy wrote:


Charlie Morgan wrote:

I'm interested in opinions on Westsail 32's in general. The one I'm considering
is factory finished with the dinette layout. It has been constantly maintained
and upgraded since new, so condition is not a big worry. This is not a bargin
priced derelict. Of course I'll have a survey done if things progress that far.

This one was made without teak decks, which to me, is a major plus. Low hours on
the Yanmar. I'm more interested in hearing about how the boat sails and what it
is like to spend long periods aboard. I already like the looks and the size,
although I've also considered some larger boats. The boat would be used
initially for frequent daysails (often single handed) long weekends, and cruises
of a week or two at most. In a few years, we'd be on the boat for six or more
months at a time. Once we transition to the longer term situation, we might even
consider leaving it somewhere nice like the Med, and flying to the boat. I've
long admired these boats, but I've never spent more than an afternoon on one.

CWM

Michael Ortin has a Westsail...want me to forward on your post since he
no longer reads asa?


Thanks. I'd appreciate it.

CWM

"katy" wrote
My bad, Charlie...I got the worng boat...


Duh!

Cheers,
Ellen